The Coming Storm: How to handle defenders

[SDCC 599]

From my experience tonight, TLTs chew through them. No Autothrusters means having at least two TLTs in your list will eat them alive, free Evade or no.

 

I played against two TLT Y's last week with two x7 Glaives and they held up well. Sure they were chipped away a bit but they soon got in and tore the Y's apart. 

[Hobojebus 11,341]

I've faced bombs plenty they've never bothered me in the slightest, they ping a few shields at best.

 

I've laughed of prokets with the x7 title.

 

Your best bet is turrets and hoping you can outmaneuver them so you have a shot and they don't. 

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

your best bet is never turrets unless you enjoy boring games

 

 

not to mention bombs can do incredible damage. had a game against the luckiest prox mine ever that ripped off ryad's shields and then followed with a seismic for 4 damage without lifting a finger

 

problem is that was poor deathrain. If it were sabine, you could guarantee those results with a conner net and seismic while denying poor ryad everything but her x7 bonus

Edited June 30, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[Biophysical 15,761]

One of the funny things I've noticed is that TIE/Ds have a combination of great offense and control that can really do a number on x7s, but are conventionally susceptible to normal ships (by that I mean it's not one sided).

[Arschbombe 1,001]

your best bet is never turrets unless you enjoy boring games

 

Boring is in the eye of the beholder.   I'll take fighting back with turrets over watching my TIEs get eaten one at time by impervious X7s.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

 

your best bet is never turrets unless you enjoy boring games

 

Boring is in the eye of the beholder.   I'll take fighting back with turrets over watching my TIEs get eaten one at time by impervious X7s.

 

 

they're not imprevious

 

thruster palp aces are far more difficult to kill, assuming you even get to shoot them

 

 

hell, I almost lost with x7 Ryad and x7 Vess (and homing conner Deathfire) to what could be considered a very jank list (adaptability wedge, vi t-beam ten numb, and ptl r2 astro eathn). Granted, there were 3 rounds in a row of naked Ten numb crits and some incredibly sh*tty asteroid rolls, but only Vessery came out with two hull remaining

 

green dice blank, guaranteed damage takes its toll, and shields don't last forever. One bad round of shooting, and you're sitting on a Tie Fighter's worth of durability

Edited June 30, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[Arschbombe 1,001]

oooh, you almost lost.  LOL.   I'm sure it was terrifying for you.

 

I don't have a problem beating Palp Aces.  I do have a problem taking out three X7s. 

[wurms 5,313]

Block the kturn. Even if they get their evade from x7, they are not turning around for return fire.

 

Asteroid placement is going to be VERY important in facing defenders:

 

Tight triangle asteroid placement. Defenders cant kturn into them, nor make sharp turns through them.

 

[Maringue 215]

Block the kturn. Even if they get their evade from x7, they are not turning around for return fire.

 

Asteroid placement is going to be VERY important in facing defenders:

 

Tight triangle asteroid placement. Defenders cant kturn into them, nor make sharp turns through them.

 

The problem with this setup is that it's going to leave a LOT of the rest of the board wide open. If you opponent flying Defenders is smart, they will just stay out in the open. And don't forget that a lot of people, myself not being one of them, like to use a Ryad, PTL with engine upgrade. And Defenders can fly tight turns, especially if the use the Mk II engines, and it surprises people because they don't expect them to do so.

 

 The problem I see is that you'd be stupid to fly your Defenders that close to each other heading into an area restricted by asteroids. Defenders gain no real advantage by flying in tight formation, so you're not going to see them do it. So if I saw that triangle of asteroids, I just would fly into it. I'd simply wait for you to come out into the open, which there's now a lot more of because half the rocks are bunched up, and ping-pong around you.

And if one of the Defenders is Ryad, blocking her K-turn is almost impossible, so it's going to be a losing battle to try to.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Maringue

[underling 281]

I'll be curious to see how the scum equivalent of my rebel swarm build does against them:

2 G1A

4 Z

The trick will be getting enough arcs on the "designated target" each turn.

Kevin

[Biophysical 15,761]

Am I crazy for thinking that Delta x7s are stronger in a mirror match than higher PS x7s?  They are defensive enough that getting PS-killed by the opposite side is going to be a low probability occurrence, but when they fire, they will know which opposing ships will have used Focus tokens already and attack those.  On a 1v1 joust, they can also move into a position that blocks the 3-4 straight moves by the opposing Defender and then take a Target Lock and get the free Evade.  The higher PS Defender only can do a 2 straight if it wants to get a shot, but this leaves it without the Evade from x7, otherwise it overshoots, bumps, or turns away, netting the x7 a free Target Lock to spend on the next pass.

 

From this point of view, the Delta x7, Delta x7, Delta x7, Backstabber list looks even better.  

[Maringue 215]

Am I crazy for thinking that Delta x7s are stronger in a mirror match than higher PS x7s?  They are defensive enough that getting PS-killed by the opposite side is going to be a low probability occurrence, but when they fire, they will know which opposing ships will have used Focus tokens already and attack those.  On a 1v1 joust, they can also move into a position that blocks the 3-4 straight moves by the opposing Defender and then take a Target Lock and get the free Evade.  The higher PS Defender only can do a 2 straight if it wants to get a shot, but this leaves it without the Evade from x7, otherwise it overshoots, bumps, or turns away, netting the x7 a free Target Lock to spend on the next pass.

 

From this point of view, the Delta x7, Delta x7, Delta x7, Backstabber list looks even better.  

This is why I never understood why so many people thought Ryand was useless at PS 5. Defenders are one of those ships that doesn't gain all that much from having a high PS. Because of her super flexible K-turn, I actually like that I will be moving Ryad before an Ace. Takes a lot of the guess work out of where to plan your move. And on top of that, you'll put your opponent into that awkward position of trying to decide whether to burn that focus on their attack or same it for getting shot at.

[Biophysical 15,761]

Also another addition to the list of things Defenders (especially x7s) don't like:

 

Carnor Jax

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

Also another addition to the list of things Defenders (especially x7s) don't like:

 

Carnor Jax

 

by extension, Palob

[ObiWonka 7,081]

I detonate before you get to activate

Time to get on Photoshop and make an Imperial propaganda poster for Bomber pilots with the tag line "Detonate Before They Activate".

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

 

I detonate before you get to activate

Time to get on Photoshop and make an Imperial propaganda poster for Bomber pilots with the tag line "Detonate Before They Activate".

 

 

more of a rebel thing, I'd think, given the prevalence of imperial aces rather than rebel

[Ronu 503]

I think it really depends on the Defenders you are up against. Tie/D's have a very very different approach to those using the X7 TLT's will still do wonders in masse but you may not fly them in a tight formation like you might have against other builds. Making them want to turn also helpful big and fast in a straight line is not the same as fighting in a box like most will be used to with Intercepters and Phantoms

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Yeah tlt will hurt a /D more than t the x7, but if you take TB you can burst down y-wing's quick.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Yeah tlt will hurt a /D more than t the x7, but if you take TB you can burst down y-wing's quick.

While its true a TLT can technically hurt a TIE/D more easily than an X-7, if there are at least 2 ion cannon TIE/Ds, then its an extremely tough fight for the y-wings, since they have basically no hope of avoiding the ion.  Once ionized, its impossible to keep the defenders out of R1, and therefore, no more TLT shots for that/those y-wings (since the defender player is probably smart enough to spread his ions to as many y-wings as possible).

 

I just had a really intense match against a really strong player on VASSAL.  I was using my triple glaives with X-7 + crack shot and he was flying 2 torpedo scouts plus a 'party bus' (Trandoshan slaver with dengar, 4-LOM & zuckuss).

 

I have to say, that YV build is incredibly nasty.  Its probably the closest thing Scum has to a 'counter' to the X-7 title.  4-LOM denies the evade token, Dengar makes sure at least 2 or likely 3 hits are coming in, and then zuckuss makes it very unlikely to actually evade any damage.  The biggest problem with it of course is if the defenders get behind it, then its pretty much over for the YV.  I managed to force my opponent to split his fire and finally got behind it (despite his attempts to block me in front of the death machine).  

 

So while I did pull out the win, I think if you build a list around that particular YV build, you can make a list that would be pretty strong against Defenders.  I believe his particular list had all the tools needed to deal with defenders, but just wasn't quite able to keep my ships boxed in as he wanted.  

 

His List was:

Party bus (as above) - 34

2 contracted scouts w/ deadeye, R4 agromech, plasma torps, extra munitions & guidance chips = 33 x 2

100

Edited July 1, 2016 by blade_mercurial