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XBear

An example of NOT flying casual

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Entering the 4th round, I was 2-1 at the local monthly tournament, having just lost to the very strong and friendly mynock who went 2nd at the norcal regional, and I was facing another strong mynock player. He's very friendly and it's always fun playing with him. I had beaten him before but this match wasn't going well, and Biggs had just died. I did not draw the extra damage cards as it didn't make a difference and my opponent didn't care. I have to say that if he had asked me to I would have, it's just part of being friendly to your opponent. But he didn't care and we moved on to the next round. Except we couldn't.

The TO (also a regular local player at the store, like me) happened to pass by our table and told me to draw the extra cards. At first I calmly pointed out it didn't really make a difference, since I wasn't gaining any advantage, but he started to get angry and insisted that a rule is a rule whether meaningful or not. I don't like being bullied, so I got angry myself as well at that point. When he told me to pack up and leave I refused. I and my friendly opponent went back to playing, while the not-so friendly TO went to the other TO, the one who is an actual store employee. Since the other TO is running a business and I am a regular customer who was not cheating but only broke a usually meaningless rule, he decided he didn't care to toss me out of the store.

However, what concentration and fun I was having was gone, and I dropped out. I also realized that I was spending 8+ hours in a hot store in socal not only playing with plastic spaceship (which can still be fun) but now arguing about plastic spaceships – something I thought I was done in primary school. So I went home and put my $600+ collection for sale.

If you care to know, the TO above was the socal regional champion and mynock podcaster.

Take care everybody, it was fun while it lasted.

Good afternoon sir,

I know who you are, and you know who I am. However, most of the people on this forum don't know you. I've enjoyed playing against you in the past, you're pretty good at the game and bring some great competitiveness. While I am sad to see you potentially leave the game, I cannot sit here and let you passive aggressively call out and slander one of the strongest members of the So-Cal community. Anyone who listens to our Podcast knows that I'M certainly no regional champion, so really that just leaves a couple people hanging out to dry. In your overall frustration and rage over what happened you're attempting to hurt another person's reputation and that is grade-A loser behavior that doesn't belong in this game. I was standing right behind you when the incident in question took place. This is exactly what went down:

TO: "Hey, make sure you apply that final damage card."

You: "No, it's meaningless it doesn't really matter at all."

TO:"I'm afraid I have to insist; it's mostly meaningless but clear in the rules."

You: "No, it's meaningless you can't make me."

TO: "Actually...I am the judge today. Just burn the card it's the tournament rule"

You: "What, are you going to kick me out of the tournament?"

TO: "If you refuse, and continue to be combative, yes."

You: "I'm not going to. Are you going to physically drag me out of the store?"

At this point the TO went to talk to the store owner for a second opinion. If I remember correctly you did NOT end up getting thrown out. Get off your high horse man, your own stubbornness got you into that situation, not the TO. Anyone who listens to the podcast knows that if my co-host was out of line I would be the first to call him out for it. He handled it in a professional manor, and you're the one who seems to think he was on some kind of "crazy power trip". He called me out earlier in the tournament for accidently rolling 4 green dice, even though it was almost certain I would evade the one hit with 3 and a focus (with Autothrusters). I didn't go "No I won't roll three, it doesn't matter anyway", I just rerolled the 3 dice. He did that all day like a GOOD JUDGE SHOULD. You weren't being singled out, and it's your own fault you're in this situation. I hope you find no sympathy here, because calling out one of the best members of the community has certainly cost you mine.

Now to this point:

While I do think you maybe over reacting selling your stuff, seems more like that is punishing you rather than the to.

A punch in the nose may hurt him more than selling your stuff... Only saying lol.

Anyway I think he was a bit out of line. (it's not the end of the world if you don't mill your deck and if your opponent is fine with that, then that also should be fine)

I think some of these guys who run podcasts and stuff think they have some almighty power once they get a few followers. No, your not a celebrity, your just some guy playing with plastic Ships lol. Your still nobody special. Just some guy with a hobby, that really for the most part is pretty niche lol

Kind of sad imo

You're suggesting violence is a good option? Maybe you should sell your collection too, because we don't want people throwing punches like children when things don't go their way. And don't say "Oh it's just a joke I didn't actually mean he should hit him" You typed it, so you clearly in some way meant it. I don't want ANY fights breaking out at X-Wing tourneys, the TOs and Judges are under enough pressure as it is without also fearing that some overgrown man-child with throw a hissy fit and try to hit them when they don't get their way.

To your second point. You're absolutely correct, I'm not a celebrity, none of us are (actually it's pretty evident from our podcast that no one really even knows I exist). We just have things to say about a game we love and sometimes people agree, other times they don't. This event has NOTHING to do with podcasting, it has NOTHING to do with notions of "power" or influence. It was simply one person refusing to follow a rule. If you like to play without listening to a judge then that's on you. In MY opinion I think it's kind of sad that you think it's okay to suggest violence and blatant disregard for the rules when dealing with TOs and your opponents. Happy flying though.

This is my defense, and I hope i shed some clarity on the situation.

-Moisture Farmer

Congratulations sir for not understanding sarcasm when you read it

I wondered who would not realize that lol

You get a cookie

(as if fighting over plastic ships is worth it)

If grown men really need to fight then that's pretty pathetic.

Just saying

And if you really thought I was serious, then go ahead rofl. I'll still sleep well tonight

Despite what you think about me from one post I'm actually a very lovable person :)

And very laid back.

I can't help if you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it lol

Edit

My opinion on this while topic. Both sides over reacted, but that just me.

As I said were playing with ******* toys lol. Little space ships. Not some pro sport where millions of dollars is on the line.

Now would I act this way? No, but do I agree with the way it was handled? no, and do I think the OP is over reacting? Yes

Edited by Krynn007

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When playing a casual game, it's totally cool to modify or ignore certain rules IF all players agree. In the event of disagreements, of course, fall back on the official rules as written.

In a competitive event, you should expect to follow the rules as written, period. These rules are covered in the various sets we buy, inclusive of core sets and expansions, as well as the FAQ and tournament rules posted to FFG's website. If you skip or violate a rule and a judge or other official calls you on it, comply. Entry into a competitive event implicitly agrees to compliance with the rules of that event. Really, if your opponent or another player nearby notices your violation and mentions it, you should make an effort to bring you play into comp,Jan e without having to hear from an official.

If it stresses you so much to argue with a TO, you can of course throw a fit and sell off everything; or, you could save the stress and simply agree to the TO's request, unless you have clear support that you were in compliance with the rules and the TO is in defiance of them (unlikely, but possible).

The event described above was clearly an incident that could have been amicably resolved as soon as the TO asked the player to take the excess damage. He could have just shrugged, said "okay" and assigned the damage. Then there's no argument, no stress, and a fun day of gaming goes on. The OP chose to be obstinate, and created an unpleasant experience not only for himself, but also for the TO and probably his opponent. Then he comes here, either to show himself as an example of poor sportsmanship, or more mind-bogglingly, to play the victim.

I've tweaked rules at home. I don't bother drawing damage cards on a ship that has obviously been destroyed, so the cards don't matter, but only when playing at home. If I go to an event, I expect to play exactly by the rules, and I expect the same of my opponents.

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One thing I'll say is it is good to hear the other side of the story, so when I hear the word bully being thrown around I tend to stick up for the little guy

One thing I dispise In this world is bullies, but that's another topic lol

Well that there is the others side It is starting to sound as though XBear may have been out of line

Thank you for clarify, and thank you for not taking my sarcastic remark to heart as your partner seemed to have :)

Edited by Krynn007

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Wow

I understand your frustration, I alwys forget to draw the extra cards( but that's more a detriment to yourself right) but think you may be slightly over reacting, you have 600 dollars of minis so you obviously enjoy the game.

So come on be honest, you wanted to vent on the forum and hoped some people would talk you out of it.

Job done.

 

No, he wanted to vent on the forum and hope he could build a lynch mob against said TO, who he stopped just short of naming. 

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However, what concentration and fun I was having was gone, and I dropped out. I also realized that I was spending 8+ hours in a hot store in socal not only playing with plastic spaceship (which can still be fun) but now arguing about plastic spaceships – something I thought I was done in primary school. So I went home and put my $600+ collection for sale.

 

If you care to know, the TO above was the socal regional champion and mynock podcaster. 

 

Take care everybody, it was fun while it lasted.

giphy.gif

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I don't like being bullied, so I got angry myself as well at that point. 

This right here being the biggest issue.  You're getting angry at the TO for enforcing the rules.  Which is exactly what the TO is there to do.  And not drawing your extra cards can ABSOLUTELY affect the game.  I Had a game the other day where a ship died to 2 back-to-back direct hits.  I realized after drawing them that I'd failed to draw some other damage cards when I was supposed to earlier (in a vassal match) and if I'd drawn the cards I was supposed to, I would have gotten entirely different crits and my ship would have survived the round.  Conversely, you  could draw a mostly meaningless crit that doesnt bother you and leaves you at 1 hull when, if you had drawn all the cards you should have earlier, you instead would have drawn a direct hit and died.  There's no way to tell when drawing the cards (or not) how it will affect the game later.

 

 

IMO, tournament rules are quite clear which parts of the rules can the players agree to disregard, and that's only Missed Opportunities and only in casual tournaments. There is no 'can disregard any part of the rules as long as both players are cool with it' clause anywhere.

A TO is there IMO in order to make sure the rules of the tournament are being followed. If the tournament is run by FFG rules, that includes making sure all players follow the official rules as much as possible. Not drawing all cards will cause the game to play differently as soon as the next face up card is drawn, with the potential to affect MOV and/or game outcome and therefore the standing if several other players.

Also, it doesn't sound like the OP was asked to leave for not drawing extra damage cards, but for blatantly refusing to comply with a TOs direct request to follow the official rules of the game. Disrespecting the organizer/judge/referee should have big consequences in any kind of competitive event IMO.

Then what about the rule ffg made about using their play mats?

Now unless they changed this rule which they may have and if so disregard what saying, but I believe they made a ruling that states if you use a playmat it has to be an official ffg mat.

So if that is the case, any store championship, regional or whatever that does not use their playmat is illegal?

Then What?

A rule is a rule afterall

And I mean come guys if it's not a sanction tournament do you really need get your it panties in a bunch?

Maybe I'm more laid back then others, idk, but I mean it's a game with plastic space ships. Get over yourselves lol.

 

 

I know you're being mostly facetious trying to prove a point here, but you're not exactly correct on the playmat thing:

 

In events where players provide their own playmats, only of cial FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third- party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

 

So technically, if the players are bringing any of their own mats, THEN they are supposed to be official mats.  Otherwise, the TO/Venue can provide any mats they want.

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Thank you for clarify, and thank you for not taking my sarcastic remark to heart as your partner seemed to have :)

Sarcasm in text usually makes you just look like a jerk. All of the tone and body language cues get stripped out, and there are enough jerks in the world that it's the safer bet to assume you're one of them.

This isn't sarcasm: I'm hoping this means that XBear will stop posting bad math threads here.

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Wow

I understand your frustration, I alwys forget to draw the extra cards( but that's more a detriment to yourself right) but think you may be slightly over reacting, you have 600 dollars of minis so you obviously enjoy the game.

So come on be honest, you wanted to vent on the forum and hoped some people would talk you out of it.

Job done.

 

No, he wanted to vent on the forum and hope he could build a lynch mob against said TO, who he stopped just short of naming.

Well judging from the above posts and the OPs complete silence, I beleive he has failed miserably.

Amazing how just one perspective can distort an argument, that reminds of a recent Referendum vote but that's a whole other kettle of Fishfingers

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My bet is the OP is selling his collection because he knows he was in the wrong but can't quite admit it to himself.

You should follow the rules in a tournament, especially if you're corrected and you're in the wrong... even if the infraction is minor or unnecessary in your opinion.  If you don't like the way a judge comports himself, confront him (or the organizers) about it AFTER the event.  There's a much better chance the judge will get his just deserts if your behavior is mature when compared with the other guy's.

If the altercation truly went down as described by the witness, I say good riddance to the OP, and I hope his collection finds its way into the hands of a better sport.

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Thank you for clarify, and thank you for not taking my sarcastic remark to heart as your partner seemed to have :)

Sarcasm in text usually makes you just look like a jerk. All of the tone and body language cues get stripped out, and there are enough jerks in the world that it's the safer bet to assume you're one of them.This isn't sarcasm: I'm hoping this means that XBear will stop posting bad math threads here.
I can be a jerk at times. Or so my wife tells me, I still don't believe her.

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Idk but kicking someone out of a store over such a stupid thing. I mean really?

I'm of the mindset If both players are fine with it, then let them deal with it.

 

Throwing a hissy-fit during a tourney is usually enough to get kicked out of a store. He literally picked up his toys and ran home. Good riddance.

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Idk but kicking someone out of a store over such a stupid thing. I mean really?

I'm of the mindset If both players are fine with it, then let them deal with it.

Throwing a hissy-fit during a tourney is usually enough to get kicked out of a store. He literally picked up his toys and ran home. Good riddance.

Quick someone cue the cartman "screw you guys I'm going home" line

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Thank you for clarify, and thank you for not taking my sarcastic remark to heart as your partner seemed to have :)

Sarcasm in text usually makes you just look like a jerk. All of the tone and body language cues get stripped out, and there are enough jerks in the world that it's the safer bet to assume you're one of them.This isn't sarcasm: I'm hoping this means that XBear will stop posting bad math threads here.
I can be a jerk at times. Or so my wife tells me, I still don't believe her.

What the!?! Is your wife secretly married to me too???

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Like most of the others I don't have much sympathy for you - you didn't follow the rules, argued with the TO about it and got asked to leave. What's not to be expected? Given that there have been several minor incidents about rules at tournaments in the past I think it is entirely reasonable for the TO to insist on doing things correctly. The issue with your cards is that it could also give the appearance that you have stacked your deck or know what it next in the cards. I don't think the TO was out of line and I hope you come round to seeing that.

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AFAIK drawing extra damage cards isn't an optional rule, so in the strictest sense you got mad at a TO for not letting you cheat (even if you were getting no advantage from that, technically it's still cheating since you knowingly chose to ignore a non-optional rule).

That's correct, and the TO forcing him to draw the cards is an example of further cheat prevention.

If the OP had stacked his damage deck, he'd most likely put all the direct hits at the bottom. Drawing as few cards as possible limits his exposure to the bottom of the deck. By refusing to draw the extra "unnecessary" hits, it could be seen as an attempt to avoid drawing those last cards.

 

The OP probably didn't stack his deck, but he or another player could have, and the OP's and the stacking players reactions would appear identical to a neutral third party.

 

Don't cheat. Don't pretend to cheat. Don't give the appearance that you might be cheating. Or you could wind up exiting a tournament early like this OP did.

 

And to the OP; Deal Damage Cards EVEN Better!

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