Decision time for the United Kingdom tomorrow.

[Robin Graves 6,054]

So Nigel farrage was the latest reincarnation of the master?

[Guest Andy1909]

So Nigel farrage was the latest reincarnation of the master?

 

Nope....ripping off a Toby Ziegler line....

 

Nigel Farrage is the guy who runs out to buy satan his cigarettes :-)

 

 

<<<Now it starts>>>>

 

One of the local shops just got it's first post referendum stock in. Price has jumped from 12.99 to 13.99 for the LCG card packs. So probably expect similar for X wing.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Andy1909

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

My FLGC has already bumped their prices.  But given that their prices were already well below average, I ain't complaining.

[DariusAPB 6,925]

I'll re-iterate what i've already said, perhaps out of painted frustration.

I've never been so ashamed of my country of birth - to the point where I am actually starting to refer to myself as Canadian.

That was after the Brexit vote.

 

A few weeks on, i can't keep up with the epic political trainwreck. I'm just glad to be far away from the UK.

Certain people need to be held accountable for the damage done to the UK over this.

[Bojanglez 2,158]

I'll re-iterate what i've already said, perhaps out of painted frustration.

I've never been so ashamed of my country of birth - to the point where I am actually starting to refer to myself as Canadian.

That was after the Brexit vote.

 

A few weeks on, i can't keep up with the epic political trainwreck. I'm just glad to be far away from the UK.

Certain people need to be held accountable for the damage done to the UK over this.

those who are truly accountable are about to get their comeuppance - the British public.

As stated elsewhere in this thread, I am in total agreement about the embarassment you feel over this. Never has "home is where the heart is" been more applicable. I may have been born and raised there, but the UK is no longer - and will likely never again be - home.

[DariusAPB 6,925]

A sentiment I echo entirely.

[Bojanglez 2,158]

And not sure if you know who James O'Brien is but I have been loving his commentary on LBC (via YouTube). This is him reneacting a prison shower scene with Nigel Farage (who won't be picking up THAT soap again).

[VanorDM 11,599]

"The unlimited democracies were unstable because their citizens were not responsible for the fashion in which they exerted their sovereign authority... other than through the tragic logic of history... No attempt was made to determine whether a voter was socially responsible to the extent of his literally unlimited authority. If he voted the impossible, the disastrous possible happened instead - and responsibility was then forced on him willy-nilly and destroyed both him and his foundationless temple.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 

Not sure that I think we should limit voting to those who have served a term in the military or anything... But he kinda hits the nail on the head here.

[Dagonet 7,246]

 

A few weeks on, i can't keep up with the epic political trainwreck. I'm just glad to be far away from the UK.

Certain people need to be held accountable for the damage done to the UK over this.

It is a bit too soon to make up the balnce. This is short term response, but who knows where it'll be in a year or two?

I'm quite sure the euro will be so devaluated in order to bail out the, among others, Italian banks. That 150 billion that is urgently needed is only the first.

[mazz0 2,910]

And not sure if you know who James O'Brien is but I have been loving his commentary on LBC (via YouTube). This is him reneacting a prison shower scene with Nigel Farage (who won't be picking up THAT soap again).

https://youtu.be/-pyYoL9ngtE

I wish he was the lead Newsnight presenter.

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Not sure that I think we should limit voting to those who have served a term in the military or anything... But he kinda hits the nail on the head here.

Yeah, Heinlein's specific political views were pretty crappy, but that particular quote does summarize the root problem of democracy. How to ensure that the citizenry don't take their civic responsibilities for granted while still ensuring that everyone has an equal opportunity to participate. Edited July 12, 2016 by Forgottenlore

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

"The unlimited democracies were unstable because their citizens were not responsible for the fashion in which they exerted their sovereign authority... other than through the tragic logic of history... No attempt was made to determine whether a voter was socially responsible to the extent of his literally unlimited authority. If he voted the impossible, the disastrous possible happened instead - and responsibility was then forced on him willy-nilly and destroyed both him and his foundationless temple.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 

Not sure that I think we should limit voting to those who have served a term in the military or anything... But he kinda hits the nail on the head here.

Military definitly is a crap idea given how easy it is to set that up as an institution of indoctrination. Its really impossible to find an apropriate qualification for taking responsibility in a democracy. Its just so dangerous because someone has to make those rules.

[Cununculus 661]

D'you think, if I were to quickly gain a UK passport, I might have a chance?

 

I mean, everybody else is running and it wouldn't be the first time a Dutchman ended up ruling the country. 

It might even end up solving the problems in Ireland once and for all! And I sure am not a huge fan of the French, so everything goes back full circle.

You do realize *that* Dutchman is one of the root-causes for the problems in Northern-Ireland?

[mazz0 2,910]

"The unlimited democracies were unstable because their citizens were not responsible for the fashion in which they exerted their sovereign authority... other than through the tragic logic of history... No attempt was made to determine whether a voter was socially responsible to the extent of his literally unlimited authority. If he voted the impossible, the disastrous possible happened instead - and responsibility was then forced on him willy-nilly and destroyed both him and his foundationless temple.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 

Not sure that I think we should limit voting to those who have served a term in the military or anything... But he kinda hits the nail on the head here.

Military definitly is a crap idea given how easy it is to set that up as an institution of indoctrination. Its really impossible to find an apropriate qualification for taking responsibility in a democracy. Its just so dangerous because someone has to make those rules.

Yes. Appealing as the idea is I think it's a non-starter. If you accept the principal of a subjective test to determine who can vote then it's always open to misuse (and indeed there would inevitably be people who thought it misused right from the start).

[JJ48 7,102]

 

"The unlimited democracies were unstable because their citizens were not responsible for the fashion in which they exerted their sovereign authority... other than through the tragic logic of history... No attempt was made to determine whether a voter was socially responsible to the extent of his literally unlimited authority. If he voted the impossible, the disastrous possible happened instead - and responsibility was then forced on him willy-nilly and destroyed both him and his foundationless temple.”

― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers

 

Not sure that I think we should limit voting to those who have served a term in the military or anything... But he kinda hits the nail on the head here.

Military definitly is a crap idea given how easy it is to set that up as an institution of indoctrination. Its really impossible to find an apropriate qualification for taking responsibility in a democracy. Its just so dangerous because someone has to make those rules.

 

 

Isn't that precisely the purpose behind constitutional republics?  By having representatives, you (ideally) have people who listen to the citizens they represent, yet are capable of recognizing when the citizens are wrong and can vote against the popular majority if necessary.  By having a constitution, you (theoretically) recognize rights and establish basic laws to ensure that neither the representatives nor the people from which they draw their power can oppress the minority.

 

Of course, it doesn't always work out so well in practice, but then again, pretty much every government type is open to corruption (some simply more so than others).  Christ returning as an absolutely righteous monarch will doubtless be better, but until that occurs, I'd recommend sticking with a constitutional republic.

[VanorDM 11,599]

How to ensure that the citizenry don't take their civic responsibilities for granted while still ensuring that everyone has an equal opportunity to participate.

 

Which is why democracy is really a poor way to run a government. Of course that's also why the US and most other "democracies" aren't really such a thing, they're representative republics.

 

It always drives me a little nuts to hear people who should know better talk about the US as a democracy when it really isn't, and never has been.  Sure the leaders may be elected in a democratic system but pure democracy is nothing more than mob rule.

 

The whole idea was not to allow the majority to have the final say in how the country is run, because when you do that like with this example, you have the majority and quite often a fairly thin majority decide the fate of everyone...

 

But it was decided to make this referendum, so a simple majority got what they want, and everyone will have to live with the effects of that decision.

 

As JJ48 points out all systems are bad, it's just that a representative republic is the least bad option we've come up with so far, and is a much better option than a pure democracy.

Edited July 12, 2016 by VanorDM

[Bojanglez 2,158]

 

And not sure if you know who James O'Brien is but I have been loving his commentary on LBC (via YouTube). This is him reneacting a prison shower scene with Nigel Farage (who won't be picking up THAT soap again).

 

I wish he was the lead Newsnight presenter.

 

 

I wish I could stream Newsnight over here.  

Edited July 12, 2016 by Bojanglez

[mazz0 2,910]

And not sure if you know who James O'Brien is but I have been loving his commentary on LBC (via YouTube). This is him reneacting a prison shower scene with Nigel Farage (who won't be picking up THAT soap again).

I wish he was the lead Newsnight presenter.

 

I wish I could stream Newsnight over here.

It's not the same with Paxo. Evan Davis is terrible.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

 

How to ensure that the citizenry don't take their civic responsibilities for granted while still ensuring that everyone has an equal opportunity to participate.

 

Which is why democracy is really a poor way to run a government. Of course that's also why the US and most other "democracies" aren't really such a thing, they're representative republics.

 

It always drives me a little nuts to hear people who should know better talk about the US as a democracy when it really isn't, and never has been.  Sure the leaders may be elected in a democratic system but pure democracy is nothing more than mob rule.

 

The whole idea was not to allow the majority to have the final say in how the country is run, because when you do that like with this example, you have the majority and quite often a fairly thin majority decide the fate of everyone...

 

But it was decided to make this referendum, so a simple majority got what they want, and everyone will have to live with the effects of that decision.

 

As JJ48 points out all systems are bad, it's just that a representative republic is the least bad option we've come up with so far, and is a much better option than a pure democracy.

 

The US, like the UK, could stand to be a lot more representative though.  First Past The Post is a frigging horrible system.

[Dagonet 7,246]

A, in practice, two party system is hardly desirable anyway. 

 

And the way the districts are rezoned every time to ensure a party of a certain victory while taking as many of the opposing votes as possible out of play, it makes you wonder why that is even accepted by the people.

[VanorDM 11,599]

it makes you wonder why that is even accepted by the people.

Because it doesn't truly affect the day to day life of anyone. That and it actually "helps" some people.  I condenses power based political opinion, if an area is mostly part of one party, that means someone from that party is more likely to get elected.

 

So those who are actually interested in politics tends to like it, because it can make their party stronger, and everyone else either just doesn't understand it or don't care.

 

It is again why pure democracy is such a bad system, most people don't care enough to actually be informed on the issues and so would vote for whomever they like the best, or which side offers them the most.   

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

A, in practice, two party system is hardly desirable anyway. 

 

And the way the districts are rezoned every time to ensure a party of a certain victory while taking as many of the opposing votes as possible out of play, it makes you wonder why that is even accepted by the people.

Partly because it's small and technical and boring, partly because people don't really understand it.

 

Partly because those in power go out of their way to avoid any changes to the system which would change that power, c.f. the current fiasco with the Labour party leadership, and c.f. the AV referendum in 2011.

[McFoy 672]

There was one year in middle school where we had to vote on student council representatives. Only a few people ran (including myself) and we had to prepare a speech to show why we would be good choices. I was the last to go up after some very good speeches (for middle schoolers) and all I said was "Hi I'm McFly. Vote for me!". I was surprisingly popular at the time so suffice it say I was made class representative, my teacher was amused/chagrined, and the other candidates were mad. 

[Guest Andy1909]

WARNING for Americans.

 

You're getting Nigel Farrage in the states next week. Satans little errand boy will be over for the Republican national convention. So you can probably expect numerous demands for various states to cede from the Union. 

 

Thing to bear in mind if you hear him speaking on TV at all. He talks a complete load of *insert your favourite term for rubbish as I doubt the FFG censor will allow me to use the word I want* :-)

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

WARNING for Americans.

 

You're getting Nigel Farrage in the states next week. Satans little errand boy will be over for the Republican national convention. So you can probably expect numerous demands for various states to cede from the Union. 

 

Thing to bear in mind if you hear him speaking on TV at all. He talks a complete load of *insert your favourite term for rubbish as I doubt the FFG censor will allow me to use the word I want* :-)

They already have Trump, why would they care about terrible budget Trump?