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Decision time for the United Kingdom tomorrow.

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Well Scotland sais they'll go for independance if the brits leave. (Heard that one before)

 

My bet is people will say no, because frankly the brexit seems like a lot of bother for no gain.

 

We all gotta stop letting Europe and merkel and junker tell us what to do.

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Interesting choice. States don't have the right to secede, but I'm sure a few would do so if they could. And then immediately regret their decision.

Based on State GDP almost every state could do quite well. The lowest GDP is Vermont and that's still $30 Billion, better than Iceland and 100 other countries. Obviously if borders pop up that changes things but Singular states could certainly maintain. 

 

So here's to you Bongers. Go out there and Make Britain Great Again.

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Im really worried about this.

 

Leaving the EU, the worlds 2nd largest economy, will be disastrous for Britain.

 

Nearly every educated, well travelled and sociable person i know who isnt terrified of people from another country wants to stay in but im afraid the 'little englanders' who still think they are some sort of world super power will be in the majority because they are under crazy illusions that if it all goes wrong we can just step right back into the club.

 

It wont happen and an independent Britain is going to be going straight back to the crap days of the early 70s.

 

We wont be able to freely travel and work with our neighbours anymore and most importantly...

 

If Britiain leaves the EU most of our laws that safeguard our weakest (those are the ones the EU 'enforce' on us) will be free to be rewritten by an overpriveliged tory elite.    We're seriously in danger of it becomming an even bigger divide between rich and poor.

 

I'll say this publicly.   By UK standads my wife and i are reasonably 'well off'.  we have no real debts, we own our house and car outright, we are able to travel to Canada, Iceland, Czech... wherever several times a year.    *personally* we'd be better off under  a right wing consevative government with no checks and balances.. we have pensions and can pay for our own health care if we had to.

 

But...  we vote against them as while it might be better for *us* , a fairly privileged few it would be worse for the country as a whole.

 

 

But most importantly

 

A strong united Europe has meant (with NATO allies and the UN) that ourr generations have not had the horror of World Wars, sure we've come close., sure you sometimes have to mediate and in any 'true' mediation its rare for both parties to come out feeling 'on top' but its better than xenophobia.

 

I'm an internationalist first, then a European, then a Welshman.

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Interesting choice. States don't have the right to secede, but I'm sure a few would do so if they could. And then immediately regret their decision.

Based on State GDP almost every state could do quite well. The lowest GDP is Vermont and that's still $30 Billion, better than Iceland and 100 other countries. Obviously if borders pop up that changes things but Singular states could certainly maintain. 

 

So here's to you Bongers. Go out there and Make Britain Great Again.

 

 

 

But...

 

Iceland as an example is a bad one.

 

Practically no crime.    (170 people in prison i think).

They dont need to lock their doors.

They have 100 per cent renewable energy and use most of that to process aluminium for other people

They have fantastic gender equality

They have 'cradle to grave' social and health care.

They have very little alcoholism and hard drug abuse

They forbid the use of 'titles' and 'lordships' , everyone uses first names

They dont even want or need a bloody army.

 

You dont need to be massively successful at industry if your living standards are that good!

 

I've just got back from the place, its heavenly.

 

Just goes to show that if you spend your money on educating your populace and caring for them rather than on building planes for  bombing the heck out of other people you get better results  :)

Edited by Gadge

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Interesting choice. States don't have the right to secede, but I'm sure a few would do so if they could. And then immediately regret their decision.

Based on State GDP almost every state could do quite well. The lowest GDP is Vermont and that's still $30 Billion, better than Iceland and 100 other countries. Obviously if borders pop up that changes things but Singular states could certainly maintain. 

 

So here's to you Bongers. Go out there and Make Britain Great Again.

 

 

 

But...

 

Iceland as an example is a bad one.

 

Practically no crime.    (170 people in prison i think).

They dont need to lock their doors.

They have 100 per cent renewable energy and use most of that to process aluminium for other people

They have fantastic gender equality

They have 'cradle to crave' social and health care.

They have very little alcoholism and hard drug abuse

They forbid the use of 'titles' and 'lordships' , everyone uses first names

They dont even want or need a bloody army.

 

You dont need to be massively successful at industry if your living standards are that good!

 

I've just got back from the place, its heavenly.

 

Just goes to show that if you spend your money on educating your populace and caring for them rather than on building planes for  bombing the heck out of other people you get better results  :)

 

I wasn't saying Iceland is bad, my point was that even the lowest producing state can produce enough to match or exceed a lot of places. Granted Vermont's primary exports consist of turtlenecks, smugness, and a killer accent. 

 

I doubt Brexit will happen and (reluctantly) admit that if it did then it would fail. If Scotland had left the UK it would have failed miserably. If Catalan leaves Spain then it to would probably fail. If Quebec were to leave Canada then good riddance. 

 

The world is changing and more and more groups are gonna want their piece of the pie. 

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I live in Oklahoma. We have always depended on more federal money coming in than going out to support everything that is okay here. If we left the union we would be a third world country essentially overnight. Within a decade every educated person would have fled. I certainly would. I don't want my kids raised in a place where republicans aren't reigned in by Feds.

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I live in Oklahoma. We have always depended on more federal money coming in than going out to support everything that is okay here. If we left the union we would be a third world country essentially overnight. Within a decade every educated person would have fled. I certainly would. I don't want my kids raised in a place where republicans aren't reigned in by Feds.

Well Oklahoma wouldn't secede before Texas would. Most likely you'd just be swallowed up at that point. 

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the worrying thing is there are some very stupid people on both sides of the arguemnt, some of them have actually no idea what they are voting on.

 

My wife overheard a conversation in the petrol station where a young lad said he 'wanted to remain because he liked the Uk being close to Ibiza'

 

I think he actually thougth the referendum was on how we could physically move the UK away from mainland Europe!

 

'all voted in?'   'thats great Sir, just hang on a moment while we shift some tectonic plates'

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I'm really worried about this.

 

I'm worried too Gadge.  I'm not sure just how large a segment of the population actually understands the implicaitons of leaving the EU (I refuse to use that bloody stupid term Brexit).  Certainly judging from the conversations in my office today, a lot of my colleagues - who work in an industry incredibly dependent on co-operation with and funding from the EU - don't.

 

From what I gather (and perhaps unsurprisingly), the mood seems a lot more pro-Europe in the major cities.  Out here in the provinces, however... there's "Leave" placards in gardens, along roads, and a LOT of negativity.

 

Anyway, done my civic duty.  Now I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed until tomorrow morning...

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I think in areas with a cosmopolition , well travelled and reasonably educated populace (large towns with universities etc) there is an overwhelming 'remain'

 

Its the small 'studley constable' villages who don't want 'foreigners' and 'immigration' and forger Britain is a nation of bloomin immigrants...

 

Romans, Saxons, Normans... you name it.

 

Unfortunately i grew up in a 'little england' market town and I know how racist and insular they are.  

 

It took me years to get my mum to understand that 'corner shop' or 'store' was perfectly acceptable and she didnt have to refer to mr Sandhu's place as 'the paki shop'

 

But then she grew up in  welsh mining village and didnt see a non white person until she was about 25 (well she saw a lot of coal miners who were far from white temporarily but you know what i mean).

 

Worryingly my FB feed makes me think  that we'll be ok but i know its massively skewed to the political left, is 50 per cent non UK residents and generally, as aforementioned, well travelled people who dont kak themselves at the idea of accepting new cultures into their lives.

 

its the guys and gals who have never left their town I think will vote us out.

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After voting to leave, if it's not all its cracked up to be, you could ask America nicely and we'll probably let you be one of our territories like Puerto Rico. :D

 

We're the 51st state culturally anyway.   I'd actually have no problem with England and America forming a solid alliance if the alternative was being an insular little xenophobic island with no economy and a hang up about not having an empire anymore!

 

:)

 

Not everyone agrees

 

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Guest Andy1909

The last time a German ran Europe cropped up you Brits weren't too interest. 

 

nazi.jpg

 

 

Don't know where you got your maps, but Germany never occupied Spain or Portugal.....The red bits to the west of the map. And they never occupied Cyprus or Malta, couple of islands in the Med. Leaving those aside, by the time there was that much red on the map, the UK and Commonwealth had been at war for nigh on two years. Somewhere around 1941 based on how much of the USSR has been occupied. If you are going to try making a point you need to make sure your info sources are correct. 

 

And when I say the UK and Commonwealth had been at war, I mean my father and his 5 brothers. Yeah I am that old :-) 

 

Hoping for remain because I don't want to be paying twice what I do now for my FFG fix if we leave and the pound goes through the floor.

Edited by Andy1909

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