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Cursain

New info on Chains the Rust

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1. I thought using a hybrid class locks you out of both the base deck and the support deck's 3xp cards. You only have the choice of the 3xp hybrid card.

2. Even if I am misremembering that, what you are saying seems backwards. You say you feel the Monk seems an attack-oriented hybrid class based on his unique cards. Then you say it would be more fresh if the Scout is the base class (as FFG intended) than if the Healer is the base class (as I intend to house-rule). Wouldn't it be fresher if the Healer hero got access to more attack-oriented cards?

We do both assume that Scout decks tend to be more combat-oriented than Healer decks, right? Granted, Disciples (Avaric etc) seem to like getting into the thick of it. I am just having nightmare flashbacks of getting repeatedly clobbered by the OL as Serena. It's not fun when a little mousey girl sitting next to me playing Tatianna tells me I'm useless, LOL.

 

 

I think you misunderstood me.  Let's try a single hero, like Tomble.  Tomble is a scout archetype.  He has access to the Monk hybrid class.  Normally, Tomble excels as a thief, which has mainly attack and search actions available.  The 3 Monk cards allow Tomble to develop more powerful attack oriented traits than the 3 Watchman cards would, which is more in flavor for the scout class than the healer class.  The healer class which he chooses to add grants him some healer traits, but not the two 3 xp cards which are the most powerful healer effects in the secondary class deck.  So you end up with a stronger attack, weaker support situation.  That is more fitting for a member of the scout archetype.  

 

Switch it around and look at Battlemage vs Steelcaster.  These two classes are a little different, since both mage and warrior classes are damage oriented in most situations and must both modify the heavy restrictions on Rune weapons in order for the classes to meld.  But Steelcaster is definitely more of a 'tank' class than Battlemage, which is fitting to the Warrior archetype that can choose it.

 

In short, the hybrid classes appear consistent in that the 3 hybrid class cards grant more powerful abilities in line with the heroes archetype, but allow access to less powerful skills from the secondary (or standard) class deck.  This reads like cross training to me, which makes sense.

Edited by tomkat364

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Your descriptions of the class combo characteristics is what I came away with from reading the articles and posts. But I came to the opposite conclusions.

1st, I have no qualms with Steelcasters vs Battlemages. Only Monks vs Watchers.

So I don't think Scout archetypes require additional attack power; that's something more Healer archerypes require. What Scouts should get from their unique cards should be a way to share their movement and search advantages with their friends, instead of using all their skills for themselves. That is what Watchman cards offer, and their secondary healing skills would be from the healer deck cards they select.

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Your descriptions of the class combo characteristics is what I came away with from reading the articles and posts. But I came to the opposite conclusions.

1st, I have no qualms with Steelcasters vs Battlemages. Only Monks vs Watchers.

So I don't think Scout archetypes require additional attack power; that's something more Healer archerypes require. What Scouts should get from their unique cards should be a way to share their movement and search advantages with their friends, instead of using all their skills for themselves. That is what Watchman cards offer, and their secondary healing skills would be from the healer deck cards they select.

I'm... lost!  I thought your initial statement was that the healers seemed better suited to be monks, in order to gain more attack oriented power (their weakness), and the Scouts were better suited to Watchman due to the shared healing.  But if the Scout was the Watchman, then they would have a healing-themed hybrid class AND a healing theme secondary (standard) class... unless they got access to a Scout secondary class, but that's not what you're saying, is it?  The only skill I think seems misplaced is Trailblazer, as it seems more like what I would expect a Scout to do (guide you while traveling and assist in movement), but it is within the Healer portion of the hybrid class.  Maybe Trailblazer and Inner Balance could be switched, but the rest of the skills seem appropriate to me.

Edited by tomkat364

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I finally got my hands on The Chains that Rust (and Mists of Bilehall, Shards of Everdark, Guardians of Deephall, and the Ardus, Kyndrithul and Skarn lieutenant packs)! :lol:

 

Looking at the quests at a glance, it really seems better than I thought in regards to doing an undead campaign. I see that Goblin Archers are pretty common (as always), but they don't seem to feature in an overly narratively important fashion, meaning I can just replace them with Skeleton Archers, and such. Same goes for Shadow Dragons - I'm just going to up and replace them with Crypt Dragons when they're part on a non-open group. Shouldn't pose too great issues, really.

Can't wait to run this. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to have to, but I'm still going to be **** excited while waiting. :D

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I'm... lost! I thought your initial statement was that the healers seemed better suited to be monks, in order to gain more attack oriented power (their weakness), and the Scouts were better suited to Watchman due to the shared healing. But if the Scout was the Watchman, then they would have a healing-themed hybrid class AND a healing theme secondary (standard) class... unless they got access to a Scout secondary class, but that's not what you're saying, is it? The only skill I think seems misplaced is Trailblazer, as it seems more like what I would expect a Scout to do (guide you while traveling and assist in movement), but it is within the Healer portion of the hybrid class. Maybe Trailblazer and Inner Balance could be switched, but the rest of the skills seem appropriate to me.

I re-read the Monk and Watch cards, and my opinion's unchanged.

BTW, it seems the hero can still get the 3xp cards of his original class, just not the 3xp cards of his chosen secondary class.

The Monk has 3 cards which all makes himself better, which is what I'd expect when a Healer decides to veer into Scout. 2 are straight-up combat cards. Inner Balance is a hybrid card: you can use it to help a friend, but it will always benefit yourself.

Most Scout archetype heroes start with ranged weapons and may have abilities enhancing ranged effectiveness. I want to give that up for 2 barehanded cards?

The Watchman has 3 cards which all improve his friends' movement, stamina, and search card usage. This is what I'd expect for a Scout archetype who now wants to help out his friends more. The 1xp card is a hybrid card: it heals a friend (and increase movement), but it will always heal yourself (and increase movement).

If your archetype is healer, you probably already have some basic healing ability on your hero sheet or starting card. Why would you get a 1xp card which heals 1 hp?

Edited by Mlai

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Mlai, I'm a little confused by what you mean by this:

 

BTW, it seems the hero can still get the 3xp cards of his original class, just not the 3xp cards of his chosen secondary class.

 

Each hybrid class (Monk, Watchman, etc) has a single 3XP skill. That card is always purchasable. The standard class which goes along with the hybrid class (Apothecary going along with Monk, for example) has two 3XP skills which cannot be purchased. What other 3XP skills are there?

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Each hybrid class (Monk, Watchman, etc) has a single 3XP skill. That card is always purchasable. The standard class which goes along with the hybrid class (Apothecary going along with Monk, for example) has two 3XP skills which cannot be purchased. What other 3XP skills are there?

Say you are Scout archetype hero with Wildlander deck. You decide to be Monk. You choose Apothecary deck.

You can get the 3XP cards from the Wildlander deck and the Monk card. You cannot from the Apothecary deck.

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Each hybrid class (Monk, Watchman, etc) has a single 3XP skill. That card is always purchasable. The standard class which goes along with the hybrid class (Apothecary going along with Monk, for example) has two 3XP skills which cannot be purchased. What other 3XP skills are there?

Say you are Scout archetype hero with Wildlander deck. You decide to be Monk. You choose Apothecary deck.

You can get the 3XP cards from the Wildlander deck and the Monk card. You cannot from the Apothecary deck.

 

That's not how it works. You choose Monk instead of Wildlander, not with it it. If you're a Monk, you don't get any other scout cards. Your only other skills are the ones from the healer deck (Apothecary or other).

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@ Zaltyre:

Wait what? The Monk class is officially Scout-to-Healer. You must be a Scout archetype hero to be a Monk. Meaning, you choose your archetype deck (say, Wildlander). You take the Monk intro card, and then you choose a Healer deck.

According to FFG's CtR news blog, you then get all the starting cards of that chosen Healer deck (the weapons, items, and I guess the 0xp card).

YOU are saying that your Scout archetype hero, who chose to be a Monk, will only ever get the Monk cards and your chosen Healer deck cards. That is completely at odds with everything we know from all the news blogs and forum discussions.

If your name wasn't Zaltyre I'd be laughing right now. But now I am just confused.

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O...M...G...

I went back and reread the CtR news posts with what Zaltyre said in my mind. He's right, all the hybrid classes do is allow heroes access to more archetype decks as his chosen deck (singular). It does NOT allow heroes to combine 2 archetype decks.

.....

THAT IS SO STUPID!! For over a month, I have been excited for this expansion... FOR NOTHING!!

Well... y'all know what I'm gonna house-rule once I get my box of CtR... >:-(

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Yes, you are a scout archetype hero. This is indicated by the scout emblem on the hero sheet. When you're picking your class deck, you could choose Wildlander, or Treasure Hunter, or Thief, or Monk. If you choose Monk, the starting skill of that deck says, "pick a healer deck in addition to this one," which gets you Disciple, Apothecary, Spiritspeaker, etc. It is stated clearly in the CtR rulebook that you remain the archetype of the hero's hero sheet (and hybrid class), not the archetype of the standard class deck.

 

Ordinarily, a standard class has 15XP. Three 1XP cards, three 2XP cards, and two 3XP cards. Hybrid decks have one each of a 1XP, 2XP, and 3XP, for a total of 6XP. When you choose a hybrid deck and a corresponding standard deck, you have to forsake the two 3XP cards of the standard class. That is, you lose that 6XP of skills, but replace it with the 6XP worth of hybrid skills. 

 

EDIT: I'm sorry hybrid decks aren't what you envisioned. While a Wildlander/Monk/Bard would be epic, I'm afraid it would also be epically overpowered. 

Edited by Zaltyre

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O...M...G...

I went back and reread the CtR news posts with what Zaltyre said in my mind. He's right, all the hybrid classes do is allow heroes access to more archetype decks as his chosen deck (singular). It does NOT allow heroes to combine 2 archetype decks.

.....

THAT IS SO STUPID!! For over a month, I have been excited for this expansion... FOR NOTHING!!

Well... y'all know what I'm gonna house-rule once I get my box of CtR... >:-(

Man I really have no idea how you read it in that way, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. You'd have a hero that's almost a whole party on their own.

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Man I really have no idea how you read it in that way, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. You'd have a hero that's almost a whole party on their own.

Right because a real hybrid class hero can magically buy 2 class cards for every 1 class card another hero affords?

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Man I really have no idea how you read it in that way, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. You'd have a hero that's almost a whole party on their own.

Right because a real hybrid class hero can magically buy 2 class cards for every 1 class card another hero affords?

 

You're right that XP cost would absolutely still be an issue- you could never be a top-tier disciple AND wildlander. However, think about if ALL you had was "Oath of Honor", "Runic Sorcery", Inscribe Rune", "Advance." Or even "Defend", "Iron Will", and "Ghost Armor" only.  Still obscenely powerful.

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Man I really have no idea how you read it in that way, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. You'd have a hero that's almost a whole party on their own.

Right because a real hybrid class hero can magically buy 2 class cards for every 1 class card another hero affords?

 

You're right that XP cost would absolutely still be an issue- you could never be a top-tier disciple AND wildlander. However, think about if ALL you had was "Oath of Honor", "Runic Sorcery", Inscribe Rune", "Advance." Or even "Defend", "Iron Will", and "Ghost Armor" only.  Still obscenely powerful.

 

Or "Through The Veil(0)" "Otherworldly(2)" "Concoction(1)" "Brew Elixir(0)" "Inky Substance(1)" and "Secret Formula(2)"

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