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Cursain

New info on Chains the Rust

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Can someone upload pictures of the class cards of the Watchman? BGG Preferable.

A thousand times this.

Would be nice to see scans of all the new cards, but especially Watchman would be nice to see.

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Lieutenant tokens are includes as well as the second copy of terrified cpndotion cards and tokens

Not a huge issue, but I don't like it.

 

If I'm buying this expansion I'm paying for something I already have and do not need.

 

It's obviously they cut a big box expansion into two this time. :(

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Lieutenant tokens are includes as well as the second copy of terrified cpndotion cards and tokens

Not a huge issue, but I don't like it.

 

If I'm buying this expansion I'm paying for something I already have and do not need.

 

It's obviously they cut a big box expansion into two this time. :(

I agree, I don't like what they did here. Each boxed expansion brought with it new things, never repeats except for now... Hopefully this is not the way things to come are going... Mists and Chains should have been a big box expansion and moved on to the next one with a new condition or how about a big box that uses all of the content of previous expansions?

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While i like the repeated terrify about as much as anyone else they had to have it in both sets as the leutenants are the same in both and they had the terrify.  Also I agree that these should have been one big box rather than 2 small box expansions.

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While i like the repeated terrify about as much as anyone else they had to have it in both sets as the leutenants are the same in both and they had the terrify.  Also I agree that these should have been one big box rather than 2 small box expansions.

Right. I'm not sure where/why the decision was made to have Mists and Chains be separate expansions, but if we take that as given, the only reasonable solution is to duplicate the lieutenants and the condition cards/tokens. I'd be upset if they didn't duplicate them, as this would have forced people who were buying Chains to buy Mists as well just to have a complete set of components.

 

As an interesting note, except for the physical tokens, Mists and Chains don't actually have repeat LT cards. Mists only has the Act 1 LTs, and Chains only has Act 2 LTs.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Thematically, Monk should have been Healer to Scout, and Watchman be Scout to Healer. I look at the unique hybrid cards, and I keep thinking "a healer hero should have these abilities" or "a ranger-type hero should have those abilities".

The idea of Brother Gerrin using open-handed chi techniques makes me giggle. Wuxia juxtaposition on a Western monk just makes great sense/ imagery to me. The Healers should be Monks; they're the ones who need the "combat mystic" boost, and tbey're the ones who look the part.

Meanwhile, Scout-to-Healer means those classes which traditionally use their search and movement enhancements to help only themselves, now use their bush-smarts (tracking, guide, and herbal medicine 1st aid) specifically to help others. That's the essence of what I'm looking for in a Scout-to-Healer. As for the name, it reminds me of the Night's Watch, another reason for Scout base not Healer base.

F it, I may just house-rule it.

Edited by Mlai

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Monk is for Scout heroes (Tomble, Jain) using a healer deck (disciple).

Watchman is for Brother Gherrin, and he can be a Wildlander.

Yes, I know.  I'm saying I think Monks should be for Healer-default heroes, and Watchmen be for Scout-default heroes.

 

It's not just for the name change.  Now that I've also read the Watchman ability cards, I feel that the Monk unique abilities correlate better with Healer-heroes, and the Watchman unique abilities correlate better with Scout-heroes.  Thematically.  Which to me is what matters more.

 

Knowing Jain can start doing kung fu doesn't excite me; if I pick her it's because I want to pewpew arrows.  OTOH, I want to go all "mind over matter" and barehanded kickass for many of the Healer heroes (look at Sahla, look at him!).

 

Similarly, now I read the Watchman cards, they say to me a Scout's character transition from selfish survival to group survival.  It fits on the Scouts.  And they can keep their bows and throwing knives, which many of them have.  Why would I ever want to give up a ranged attack skill to fight barehanded??

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Now I see where you're coming from. I must have read something backwards i your last post.

While thematically it might be odd, I kind of like that the healerish hyrid deck (watchman) goes with the scout normal deck. Otherwise, the hybrid and normal decks would be too similar (watchman disciple, for example). And if the healers retained normal healer decks but got the scout hybrid (monk disciple) it would feel too similar to an ordinary disciple (to me).

There are really 3 areas for the flavor of the archetype to shine: hero sheet, hybrid class, normal class. FFG chose to link the hero sheet and hybrid deck, and mix up the normal deck. If I'm understanding your position correctly, for the sake of theme you'd have preferred the normal class match the hero sheet (as is typical) and have the hybrid deck mix it up? (Sahla the Monk Apothecary rather than Sahla the Watchman Thief).

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But when u take a hybrid deck, you mix the healer and scout decks in equal measure (since it's all up to you). So it doesn't matter what your "base" deck was.

For example, even if u feel Watchman is too close to Disciple, me flipping the base class around doesn't make it better or worse. The Disciple deck would be mixed in either way.

What matters is how the hero sheet matches up with the unique hybrid cards. I feel Scout class hero sheets fit the Watchman hybrid cards better. Same goes for Healer class heroes and Monk hybrid cards. I even don't feel (as u do) that the Monk cards overlap with either Healer's or Scout's basic decks' attributes. Same for Watchman cards. So I have no motivation not to house-rule from that gameplay perspective.

Edited by Mlai

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But when u take a hybrid deck, you mix the healer and scout decks in equal measure (since it's all up to you). So it doesn't matter what your "base" deck was.

For example, even if u feel Watchman is too close to Disciple, me flipping the base class around doesn't make it better or worse. The Disciple deck would be mixed in either way.

What matters is how the hero sheet matches up with the unique hybrid cards. I feel Scout class hero sheets fit the Watchman hybrid cards better. Same goes for Healer class heroes and Monk hybrid cards. I even don't feel (as u do) that the Monk cards overlap with either Healer's or Scout's basic decks' attributes. Same for Watchman cards. So I have no motivation not to house-rule from that gameplay perspective.

I haven't played with either yet, but I think I agree with FFG and Zaltyre here.  The hybrid deck for Monk is primarily attack oriented, which works better with a scout archetype than a healer.  You don't get any of the 3 xp cards from the chosen healer class, so the resulting mix remains an attack oriented character with less powerful healing abilities.  Vice versa for Watchman and Healer.  The more powerful cards remain in the original archetype with support from the alternate archetype.  If you did it the other way around, there would be much less variety for the chosen hero.  If you pick a scout, they can always be a wildlander.  If they got three hybrid cards adding healing abilities, that wouldn't be much different from normal.

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1. I thought using a hybrid class locks you out of both the base deck and the support deck's 3xp cards. You only have the choice of the 3xp hybrid card.

2. Even if I am misremembering that, what you are saying seems backwards. You say you feel the Monk seems an attack-oriented hybrid class based on his unique cards. Then you say it would be more fresh if the Scout is the base class (as FFG intended) than if the Healer is the base class (as I intend to house-rule). Wouldn't it be fresher if the Healer hero got access to more attack-oriented cards?

We do both assume that Scout decks tend to be more combat-oriented than Healer decks, right? Granted, Disciples (Avaric etc) seem to like getting into the thick of it. I am just having nightmare flashbacks of getting repeatedly clobbered by the OL as Serena. It's not fun when a little mousey girl sitting next to me playing Tatianna tells me I'm useless, LOL.

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1. I thought using a hybrid class locks you out of both the base deck and the support deck's 3xp cards. You only have the choice of the 3xp hybrid card.

[...]

 

What do you mean by the "base deck" and the "support deck"?

 

When you take a hybrid class, you are indeed locked out of taking the 3xp cards of the class you choose to hybridize with, and can only take the 3xp card offered by the hybrid class.

Essentially, you lose access to the two 3xp cards you'd normally have access to, and instead get access to one 1xp, one 2xp, and one 3xp card from the hybrid deck.

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We need FFG to designate official terminology...

Base deck = The original class on your Hero sheet.

Support deck = The deck you pick to hybridize with. Not your hero's printed class.

Hybrid cards = The unique cards you get from the hybrid class. I try to not say "hybrid deck" which is confusing.

Yes, it is my understanding you have no access to any 3xp cards except the new 3xp hybrid card. S'why I say when you go hybrid, your base and your support are basically equal. Your base deck is not "stronger" except where it may synergize with your hero abilities. But perhaps your support deck synergizes with your hero's abilities in some surprising way. We'll fi d out individually.

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We need FFG to designate official terminology...

Base deck = The original class on your Hero sheet.

Support deck = The deck you pick to hybridize with. Not your hero's printed class.

Hybrid cards = The unique cards you get from the hybrid class. I try to not say "hybrid deck" which is confusing.

Yes, it is my understanding you have no access to any 3xp cards except the new 3xp hybrid card. S'why I say when you go hybrid, your base and your support are basically equal. Your base deck is not "stronger" except where it may synergize with your hero abilities. But perhaps your support deck synergizes with your hero's abilities in some surprising way. We'll fi d out individually.

 

I think the source of confusion here lies in that as a hybrid, by that terminology, you have no base deck. You get the 3 hybrid cards and you get the deck of the class you hybridize with, sans the two 3xp cards.

Nobody ever has a class on their Hero sheet, they have an archetype which gives them access to classes that belong to that archetype, including the hybrid classes. Hybrid classes which in turn gives you access to a mildly modified deck of a class of another archetype.

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We need FFG to designate official terminology...

 

I've got you covered:

 

Hybrid class: Monk, Watchman, etc  

Standard Class: Disciple, Wildlander, etc

 

The above are from the CtR rulebook.

 

Archetype: Mage, Healer, Warrior, Scout

 

That's from the base game rulebook.

 

A hero sheet has an archetype (Sahla is a healer). He may choose a standard deck according to his archetype (Disciple) OR he may choose a hybrid deck of his archetype (Watchman), which then allows him to choose a standard deck according to another archetype (such as Wildlander from the Scout archetype). Regardless of what standard or hybrid class he chooses, he remains a healer (for example, a basic 2 card considers Sahla a healer and not a scout even if he is a watchman wildlander).

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