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Cursain

New info on Chains the Rust

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New class seems really strong, I'm impressed. Unlike the Unkindness deck, where the first card in the set was pretty much the only one I used, this one is something I might choose to specialize in. Danse Macabre in particular seems extremely powerful and very hard to play around. Basically heroes have to always be on guard about killing a target towards the end of their activation while being too clumped up, lest a servant appear there and Danse Macabre on its turn.

An unerring full party fatigue and move seems really really brutal - almost too strong for something that doesn't require an attribute test. I can think of many quests where that going off could well mean the end of the line, barring stamina pots and mobility feats.

There are some weaker cards one has to buy to unlock the Danse, but overall seems worthwhile to make these familiars very annoying indeed. Should combo well with the Raven to give the overlord some serious bite, especially on maps where they might be short of traditional monsters or reinforcements. If more classes come out that give the OL passive skills that don't require cards to draw, there will be an even stronger sense of real skill progression for the OL, not just deck improvements.

I feel bad for the heroes - hopefully their hybrid classes help them out enough to remain competitive.

Edited by Charmy

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As an OL player, I must say this looks both exciting and promising!

 

BTW; Reading this new post I almost get the feeling that Mists of Bilehall will be required for this new expansion. Any official word on this? (There was a discussion on another thread that buying both would mean you'd end up with 2 x LT-tokens, 2 x terrified tokens, which is a waste. So making MoB a requirement would avoid this, making room for other stuff.)

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No, they are stand alone. The CtR campaign also has an intro quest and all that, just like normal. However, MoB and CtR both have the other half of a grander story and share the same theme. I assume that it would be possible to play the entire campaign wtith monsters from both expansions (via open groups) in order to make the undead theme really stick. I don't own MoB, but I might be interested in CtR because hybrid classes and awesome box cover.

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Is it only me who thinks that dance macabre it's extremely OP?

Powerful? Yes. Overpowered? I don't think so. 

 

Consider the following:

- The summon card, a required purchase for the Overlord class, does not count toward the class card limit. That is, "Danse Macabre" effectively costs a minimum of 7 XP (Ties that Bind + 3 1XP cards must be bought before purchasing it). 

 

-The card triggers at the start of the servant's activation. That means the heroes will see this maneuver coming, since the Scourge appears when and where a monster dies (almost always during a hero turn) and the servant can't move to position itself before this card is used.

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Seriously looking forward to The Chains that Rust. I've been holding off getting Mists of Bilehall, wanting to get both as a package and running it as one big campaign.

I was thinking I'd get all the Lieutenants for it (I currently have no Lieutenant packs, because that stuff adds up real quick), get Guardians of Deephall and Shards of Everdark, and run an almost (hopefully) entirely undead-themed game, with Reanimates, Skeleton Archers, Crypt Dragons, Shades, Wraiths; the whole nine yards.

 

I wish they'd do "follow-ups" or somesuch to the other "mini-campaigns". I must say, only being able to run a total of two quests of Manor of Ravens when it's part of a regular campaign is a bit of a bummer. I'm not a fan of the idea of running mini-campaigns when there's "real" campaigns available, but just taking tiny bits and pieces and put it into a full campaign also feels a bit meh. Even a "full" mini-campaign only runs 4 encounters (or, at least Manor of Ravens do), while you can add up to 6 encounters to a full campaign with rumor cards (if I'm not mistaken; 3 in Act 1, and 3 in Act 2).

Begging the question why Manor of Ravens or similar wasn't a form of inserted campaign-in-a-campaign. But now I'm just getting off track.

Either way, I was sold on being playing the Unkindness/Magus cards for my planned Mists of Bilehall/Chains that Rust campaign, but with the news of a Soulbinder deck in The Chains that Rust, I might just end up doing a Soulbinder/Shadowmancer or even Soulbinder/Unkindness deck. I sincerely worry about the idea of fielding two servants, though - fielding one servant is already pretty powerful. Fielding two could irrevocably shift the balance of power into the Overlord's favour.

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I was thinking I'd get all the Lieutenants for it (I currently have no Lieutenant packs, because that stuff adds up real quick), get Guardians of Deephall and Shards of Everdark, and run an almost (hopefully) entirely undead-themed game, with Reanimates, Skeleton Archers, Crypt Dragons, Shades, Wraiths; the whole nine yards.

Prepare to be disappointed. Some of the bilehall quest traits don't allow for any undead groups at all.

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I was thinking I'd get all the Lieutenants for it (I currently have no Lieutenant packs, because that stuff adds up real quick), get Guardians of Deephall and Shards of Everdark, and run an almost (hopefully) entirely undead-themed game, with Reanimates, Skeleton Archers, Crypt Dragons, Shades, Wraiths; the whole nine yards.

Prepare to be disappointed. Some of the bilehall quest traits don't allow for any undead groups at all.

 

 

That is indeed disheartening as all hell. You'd think that based on the descriptions and the themes, pretty much all of the Encounters would have that nice little skull up there in the corner.

That being said, with so many different "undead-y" monsters to pull from (Bone Horror, Broodwalker, Crow Hag, Crypt Dragon, Dark Priest, Marrow Priest, Reanimate, Shade, Shambling Colossus, Skeleton Archer, Wraith and Zombie; with honourable mentions of all the arachnids (Arachyura, Bane Spider & Cave Spider), Barghest, and Carrion Drake) I hope to be able to put something together for each encounter. Even if far from every quest has the Cursed identifier. I mean, Reanimates are Civilized/Cursed (and so are Skeleton Archers), but Bone Horrors are Cave/Cursed, and Broodwalkers are Dark/Building.

 

I must say, though, while I understand why this is the way it is, it is annoying to know that sometimes there are no open groups and encounters depend on monsters that are only from that one expansion and the core set. Makes me wish they'd push out revised quest guides for those that have multiple expansions of different kinds. Thankfully, if I'm even running the spider-forest-quest in Labyrinth of Ruin, they were kind enough to make it Cave Spiders and two open groups - and those open groups are so going to be Arachyura and Bane Spiders.

 

I really like thematic combinations. I wish quests didn't make it so **** hard. It seems I'll always end up pulling Goblin Archers with Goblin Witchers, only because Goblins were in the Core package.

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Is it only me who thinks that dance macabre it's extremely OP?

Powerful? Yes. Overpowered? I don't think so. 

 

Consider the following:

- The summon card, a required purchase for the Overlord class, does not count toward the class card limit. That is, "Danse Macabre" effectively costs a minimum of 7 XP (Ties that Bind + 3 1XP cards must be bought before purchasing it). 

 

-The card triggers at the start of the servant's activation. That means the heroes will see this maneuver coming, since the Scourge appears when and where a monster dies (almost always during a hero turn) and the servant can't move to position itself before this card is used.

 

 

Except that the card targets servants and not the scourge. So you could basically use the ravenflock summon card which summons in the OL turn.

It's still true that the card is very expensive, but given the fact it can be used on every servant can make this card bordering OP.

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Is it only me who thinks that dance macabre it's extremely OP?

 

I think it is pretty borderline overpowered. It really should require an attribute test, even if it was at a -1 or something. Since it can be used on ravens or scourge, which can be created on the heroes' last action (if they used it to kill a target), or at the start of the OL's turn if there is a nearby monster, it is extremely hard to play around, even if you know the Overlord has the card in his hand and are actively trying to mitigate its effects.

 

Its effect is so strong that I know as a hero I would be very aggravated and feel somewhat helpless against it, despite the large investment the Overlord put into acquiring the card. Other powerful and popular overlord cards like Bloodrage, Web Trap, Imploding Rift, Dark Charm, Grease Trap, etc. at least have a chance to fail/miss/etc.

 

Nonetheless, I will play test it.. hopefully the groups I play with will tolerate its use..

 

I still think heroes can beat an Overlord that enjoys using really powerful cards like this, but it may require them to pull out the big guns, like Astarra, Treasure Hunter Logan, Mok, Kel, etc.

Edited by Charmy

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Is it only me who thinks that dance macabre it's extremely OP?

 

I think it is pretty borderline overpowered. It really should require an attribute test, even if it was at a -1 or something. Since it can be used on ravens or scourge, which can be created on the heroes' last action (if they used it to kill a target), or at the start of the OL's turn if there is a nearby monster, it is extremely hard to play around, even if you know the Overlord has the card in his hand and are actively trying to mitigate its effects.

 

Its effect is so strong that I know as a hero I would be very aggravated and feel somewhat helpless against it, despite the large investment the Overlord put into acquiring the card. Other powerful and popular overlord cards like Bloodrage, Web Trap, Imploding Rift, Dark Charm, Grease Trap, etc. at least have a chance to fail/miss/etc.

 

Nonetheless, I will play test it.. hopefully the groups I play with will tolerate its use..

 

I still think heroes can beat an Overlord that enjoys using really powerful cards like this, but it may require them to pull out the big guns, like Astarra, Treasure Hunter Logan, Mok, Kel, etc.

 

The other strong cards with a chance to miss are basic or 1 exp cards, which is uncomparable. And it doesn't strike me as a bad thing that the heroes always play with a 'holy crap we might get ****** now' feeling. On the heroes side there are plenty of ways to come around this. Syndrael's heroic feat for example. Als remember that at this time in the campaign, a character like a skirmisher never misses an attack, but deals 2 damage and a surge instead. So yeah, that requires some strong OL cards to counter. 

In the end, I think this card will be something that sounds really powerful, but the heroes will survive if they adjust their plan. This card really allows the OL to take initiative.

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Danse Macabre.

Into Lava.

Or through up to three Pit spaces, for a total of 6 damage.

I don't think that the card sounds overpowered or anything - it's a late-game card focused around a Servant. My only possible gripe is that it should've been exclusive to The Scourge. It has to be played like any other card, so it's not something the Overlord can be doing constantly. It's potentially devastating if a large number of heros are clumped together and in bad shape, but that really shouldn't happen too often when the heroes know that the overlord has this card.

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If you're using the Raven Flock too, that's ANOTHER XP the card costs.

An OL who has this card likely won't have Web Trap, or Blood Rage, or Imploding Rift- and almost certainly not all 3. It requires pretty strict dedication to the class, or a whole bunch of extra XP.

The heroes should fear this card, but not necessarily any more than they should fear a card like Treacherous Shadows. I personally think the soulbinder class looks like a great addition to the OL class mix, and really look forward to playing with it.

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That is indeed disheartening as all hell. You'd think that based on the descriptions and the themes, pretty much all of the Encounters would have that nice little skull up there in the corner.

That being said, with so many different "undead-y" monsters to pull from (Bone Horror, Broodwalker, Crow Hag, Crypt Dragon, Dark Priest, Marrow Priest, Reanimate, Shade, Shambling Colossus, Skeleton Archer, Wraith and Zombie; with honourable mentions of all the arachnids (Arachyura, Bane Spider & Cave Spider), Barghest, and Carrion Drake) I hope to be able to put something together for each encounter. Even if far from every quest has the Cursed identifier. I mean, Reanimates are Civilized/Cursed (and so are Skeleton Archers), but Bone Horrors are Cave/Cursed, and Broodwalkers are Dark/Building.

Well, they don't. In the finale I had to settle for Carrion Drakes (they weren't on my original 'undead' list) and bandits (which thematically made the most amount of sense I guess?)

There was another quest with similar issues.

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That is indeed disheartening as all hell. You'd think that based on the descriptions and the themes, pretty much all of the Encounters would have that nice little skull up there in the corner.

That being said, with so many different "undead-y" monsters to pull from (Bone Horror, Broodwalker, Crow Hag, Crypt Dragon, Dark Priest, Marrow Priest, Reanimate, Shade, Shambling Colossus, Skeleton Archer, Wraith and Zombie; with honourable mentions of all the arachnids (Arachyura, Bane Spider & Cave Spider), Barghest, and Carrion Drake) I hope to be able to put something together for each encounter. Even if far from every quest has the Cursed identifier. I mean, Reanimates are Civilized/Cursed (and so are Skeleton Archers), but Bone Horrors are Cave/Cursed, and Broodwalkers are Dark/Building.

Well, they don't. In the finale I had to settle for Carrion Drakes (they weren't on my original 'undead' list) and bandits (which thematically made the most amount of sense I guess?)

There was another quest with similar issues.

 

Woah, that sounds terrible. Is the Final Water + Wilderness or something? ._.'

Because Carrion Drakes are Water/Dark, but if it was Dark, there's Barghests, Broodwalkers, Crow Hags, Shades or Crypt Dragons, and Bandits are Wilderness/Building, and if it was Building, there'd be Broodwalker or Zombie.

But if there were already Broodwalker and Zombie.. goddamn.

 

Edit: Since you've evidently been through the Bilehall campaign, I must ask - does it feature any Lieutenants not introduced by Mists of Bilehall itself?

Edited by Luckmann

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Wilderness, Mountain, Water to be exact :) (and second act Wilderness, Hot, Cave)

And troubled waters is Wilderness, Cave.

 

Those two quest really bothered me trait-wise

 

Sh*t, son, not gon' lie, that sounds awful.

I might end up straight-up fudging the requirements there and deviate from the rules and hope my group doesn't hang me. It might be me just misunderstanding the themes and tone of Mists of Bilehall/The Chains that Rust, but I expected it to be really heavy on the undead, especially since all the added monsters are straight-up variations of undead, and all the Lieutenants are undead-flavoured. It largely depends on what monsters are already present, though.

 

That, or they mixed up Dark or Cursed with Cave. I dunno, man. ****.

Edited by Luckmann

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Hummm, in the theme

 

Cave: bane spiders, cave spiders, plague worms, razorwings - tainted wildlife.

 

Mountain: razorwings, barghest, cave spiders  -  second tier: harpy, manticore

 

Hot: meh ....  (hellhound, demon lords) - dark forces

 

Water: plague worms, maybe some merriods eating dead corpses ...

 

Wilderness :  barguest, razorwing, cave spiders  - secont tier: bandit, harpy, manticore

 

Yep, its awnful <_<

Edited by kraisto

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Hummm, in the theme

 

Cave: bane spiders, cave spiders, plague worms, razorwings - taunted wildlife.

 

Mountain: razorwings, barghest, cave spiders  -  second tier: harpy, manticore

 

Hot: meh ....  (hellhound, demon lords) - dark forces

 

Water: plague worms

 

Wilderness :  barguest, razorwing, cave spiders  - secont tier: bandit, harpy, manticore

 

Yep, its awnful <_<

It's not "skeleton archers", but if every quest had the only the cursed trait for open groups, I'd feel pretty cramped in my choices.

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Hummm, in the theme

 

Cave: bane spiders, cave spiders, plague worms, razorwings - taunted wildlife.

 

Mountain: razorwings, barghest, cave spiders  -  second tier: harpy, manticore

 

Hot: meh ....  (hellhound, demon lords) - dark forces

 

Water: plague worms

 

Wilderness :  barguest, razorwing, cave spiders  - secont tier: bandit, harpy, manticore

 

Yep, its awnful <_<

 

Out of those, I'd only consider Barghests to be Tier 1, with Arachya, Bane Spiders, Cave Spiders, Plague Worms and Razorwings occupying a broad Tier 2. Everything else is pretty much out for me, going for an Undead theme. Bandits, Harpies, Manticores, Hellhounds, Demon Lords, all of that is just straight out the window and down to Tier ∞.

I think I'd like Plague Worms the most, but it also happens to be the one monster I don't have, out of the whole lot, and there's no chance I can afford it before getting Mists of Bilehall, since the next major upgrade I'm getting is going to include so very, very much already.

Makes me a sad panda.

 

 

It's not "skeleton archers", but if every quest had the only the cursed trait for open groups, I'd feel pretty cramped in my choices.

Well, yeah, but I don't think anyone supported the idea of having only the Cursed trait for Open Groups. There's plenty of Traits that could've been paired in various ways. Having just one of the two-to-three available Traits be either Dark or Cursed would give you a lot of choices whether you're playing tactically or thematically - and Cursed or Dark tend to work with almost any setting, whether it's supposed to be in the Wilderness, the Mountains, or in Water; you just have to designate the space as cursed or suitably influenced by darkness.

Edited by Luckmann

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