Spawning monsters in RTL (reinforcements I think?)

[Hockeyabe 14]

Hi all,

A question on spawning monsters after the group is already on the board...

We have had zombies, Fire Imps, and Flesh Moulders "respawn" at the end of turns. When a monster is summoned in this way when the group has not been defeated, do we add a single figure, with the master having priority, or do we bring that group all the way up to the group limit (bring back all defeated monsters from the group?)

Thank you for any clarification.

 

[kraisto 273]

The app its pretty clear when you need respawn one monster or the entire group.

 

If the app dont say otherwise, just respawn one monster (master priority),  respecting group limits.

[JulianLeite 9]

If it uses the word "group" you would reinforce until you meet your group limit (unless it states otherwise, of course, but I haven't seen that in the app yet).

[Hockeyabe 14]

Here is how and where we went wrong.

Rise of the Goblins

Prison Break side quest.

******SPOILER ALERT******

Begin quest. Place group of Dark elves. No problem.

End of turn, app instructs us to place "a fire imp." I place a master where directed. When it came to the fire imp turn, there were directives for both master and minion fire imps, so I assumed I had mis-deployed, and added three minions and the remaining master. at this point, I assumed we always deployed using group limit.

End of turn, app instructs to place a broodwalker. I place all three. app instructs to place a flesh imp. I put all three we had knocked out back in.

Open a door. App instructs us to place a shadow dragon. I place both.

End of Turn. App instructs us to place a flesh moulder. I place all four.

Dragon KOs a couple of heroes, and also levels the broodwalkers with fire.

We open a door. Now broodwalkers appear.

we huddle together for the total party annihilation.

The issue is, why would the app give us direction for masters or minions not on the board? This is what led to the 13 monsters on the board in four turns.

So lesson learned I think... some deployments show exactly what spawns where. These are clear.

Others show a space to deploy in. Unless it says deploy group, we are only to deploy single figures, master than minion, and if it says deploy group, we do so using group limit for party size?

*****SPOILER ALERT*****

At the end of first quest, we has a boss that was an ogre with bonuses. We deployed both, and I think that was also a mistake, but the app still showed inion and named monster instructions. we still won this quest.

This could have saved our chances quite a bit if they simply used the first method where the app instructs the exact space for figure deployment as it did in the first room of the first quest.

 

[kraisto 273]

"Others show a space to deploy in. Unless it says deploy group, we are only to deploy single figures, master than minion, and if it says deploy group, we do so using group limit for party size?"

 

If the app dont say to ignore group limits, yes, just respect group limit.

[Hockeyabe 14]

Thank you, Kraisto. So essentially, in the section you quoted above (and for most of the rise of the goblins) I will be deploying a single mini unless I see the word "group" in the app set-up instructions.

No wonder people thought it was hard. I wonder if others with high difficulty concerns also put way too many monsters out.

As an Imperial Assault player, this also contributed to our error... The imperial (aka overlord) nearly always deploys groups, less frequently reinforcements.

We bought Descent as the app makes an awesome co-op, and as we had not played OL vs players, we are going on our IA experience to learn the Descent system and the app at the same time.

[kraisto 273]

Thank you, Kraisto. So essentially, in the section you quoted above (and for most of the rise of the goblins) I will be deploying a single mini unless I see the word "group" in the app set-up instructions.

No wonder people thought it was hard. I wonder if others with high difficulty concerns also put way too many monsters out.

As an Imperial Assault player, this also contributed to our error... The imperial (aka overlord) nearly always deploys groups, less frequently reinforcements.

We bought Descent as the app makes an awesome co-op, and as we had not played OL vs players, we are going on our IA experience to learn the Descent system and the app at the same time.

 

 

After some plays you will see the patern (I play Descent and IA). The app bring a amalgam of concepts from both games. Some quests has the reinforce rule for some monsters groups and others bring the deploy concept (bring back a entire group of monsters previous defetead for example) and so on. In doubt, check the log and pay attention, because some quests  has its own rules for respawn.

[NathanH 350]

The issue is, why would the app give us direction for masters or minions not on the board?

 

Most of the time, the app would not know whether there are masters or minions on the board, so it shows both commands. In some cases, the app ought to know, if it was programmed to, that there can't be any Minions on the board, but it hasn't been programmed to recognise these situations. This has some good points: if you've accidentally put a minion instead of a master as a single reinforcement (or if you're doing it this way to give yourself a better chance) then the app will give you a minion order even though you oughtn't have a minion on the board. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by NathanH

[huud007 8]

What do you do when you run out of minis? Just use substitutes?

When we did pest control, we had a similar discussion about how to deploy goblin archers. it said only 1 figure so we deployed 1 master and then 1 minion each round after that. If we killed the master on the board, we deployed a new master when it told us to place another goblin archer. I think that's how you do it, correct?

Thing was, we were in the other side of the map, so we just let them spawn and come to us. We eventually had to deploy a goblin, and I ran out of miniatures. So we used goblin witchers and then flesh molders as "extra archers." Is this how everyone else is playing it?

[maxam 815]

What do you do when you run out of minis? Just use substitutes?

When we did pest control, we had a similar discussion about how to deploy goblin archers. it said only 1 figure so we deployed 1 master and then 1 minion each round after that. If we killed the master on the board, we deployed a new master when it told us to place another goblin archer. I think that's how you do it, correct?

Thing was, we were in the other side of the map, so we just let them spawn and come to us. We eventually had to deploy a goblin, and I ran out of miniatures. So we used goblin witchers and then flesh molders as "extra archers." Is this how everyone else is playing it?

 

No. Once you are out of minis, you cannot spawn any more.

 

With a "constant" spawn point like that one, as you kill the Goblins that reach you, they will be able to appear again.

 

You can never have more of a given monster on the board than the miniatures that exist for it.

 

Furthermore... unless the App has instructed you to ignore group limits, you can not have more of a given monster on the board than it's given group limit (as shown on the Monster card, based on the number of heroes)

 

So, in the above example if there were 4 heroes, you could have 4 minion goblins and 1 master goblin on the board at once, but if you only had two heroes, for example, you could only have a maximum of 2 minion goblins and one master goblin on the board (even though you've got more miniatures available).

[kraisto 273]

If the app don't says to ignore the group limit, the respawn respect the monster group limit. But if the app says to ignore, the limit is the number of the figures from that monster group and nothing more. See the pag 6 in RTL rules.

Edited July 30, 2016 by kraisto

[huud007 8]

If the app don't says to ignore the group limit, the respawn respect the monster group limit. But if the app says to ignore, the limit is the number of the figures from that monster group and nothing more. See the pag 6 in RTL rules.

Awesome, thanks for the clarification. We must've read pg 6 a bunch of times but couldn't come to a decision about what respecting group limits meant in terms of the number of miniatures on the board. I wish that they would've made that a little clearer. It's nice to know that we were actually making things harder than it should've been...but we still survived.

[DAMaz 151]

There is this sidequest where every turn 1 to 2 zombies spawn on the graveyard tile, but without the group being spawned anytime in the quest.

 

Since the app doesn't say "place a master zombie on the map" we started placing minion zombies and continued doing so. Did we play this wrong and should we have placed a master zombie as the first zombie and soon as it died?

 

How are we supposed to know if the app means with "place a monster": a) place the minion monster; b) place the master monster since this is a group that will spawn here eventually.

 

 

I'm asking this because I really see no reason why the app does not say "place a master zombie", but "place a zombie", as I see no case where you wouldn't place the master first and the frequent use of "place a master monster" is bound to make "place a monster" sound as if you are not supposed to place a master monster, because what reason would there be to differentiate between the two. If you can't place a master monster, because of group limits, it's logical to place a minion monster, but it's illogical to place a master monster if the app frequently uses this command and then commands to "place a monster".

 

thx for you answer in advance.

Edited August 3, 2016 by DAMaz

[kraisto 273]

There is this sidequest where every turn 1 to 2 zombies spawn on the graveyard tile, but without the group being spawned anytime in the quest.

 

Since the app doesn't say "place a master zombie on the map" we started placing minion zombies and continued doing so. Did we play this wrong and should we have placed a master zombie as the first zombie and soon as it died?

 

How are we supposed to know if the app means with "place a monster": a) place the minion monster; b) place the master monster since this is a group that will spawn here eventually.

 

 

I'm asking this because I really see no reason why the app does not say "place a master zombie", but "place a zombie", as I see no case where you wouldn't place the master first and the frequent use of "place a master monster" is bound to make "place a monster" sound as if you are not supposed to place a master monster, because what reason would there be to differentiate between the two. If you can't place a master monster, because of group limits, it's logical to place a minion monster, but it's illogical to place a master monster if the app frequently uses this command and then commands to "place a monster".

 

thx for you answer in advance.

 

 

Monster placement, pag 6 on RTL rules:

 

Always try to place master monsters first if they aren’t already at their

group limit. If masters are at their group limit, place minions instead.

 

 

The app cant track if theres a master monster alive on the map. Some quests have reinforces for some monster groups, and the masters always comeback first if he is not present on the map. The app just follow the same principle for traditional Descent campaigns.

Edited August 3, 2016 by kraisto

[Volkren 153]

There is this sidequest where every turn 1 to 2 zombies spawn on the graveyard tile, but without the group being spawned anytime in the quest.

 

Since the app doesn't say "place a master zombie on the map" we started placing minion zombies and continued doing so. Did we play this wrong and should we have placed a master zombie as the first zombie and soon as it died?

 

How are we supposed to know if the app means with "place a monster": a) place the minion monster; b) place the master monster since this is a group that will spawn here eventually.

 

 

I'm asking this because I really see no reason why the app does not say "place a master zombie", but "place a zombie", as I see no case where you wouldn't place the master first and the frequent use of "place a master monster" is bound to make "place a monster" sound as if you are not supposed to place a master monster, because what reason would there be to differentiate between the two. If you can't place a master monster, because of group limits, it's logical to place a minion monster, but it's illogical to place a master monster if the app frequently uses this command and then commands to "place a monster".

 

thx for you answer in advance.

 

Yes, you always place the master 1st. Page 6 of the rulebook. 

 

"Always try to place master monsters first if they aren’t already at their group limit. If masters are at their group limit, place minions instead."

 

It says "zombie" because in case the master is dead, you just reinforce it rigth the way.

 

[Edit]: well, I was late hahaha

Edited August 3, 2016 by Volkren