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Necrons and Deep Strike

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Does my dial have to match the enslaved faction when I play a card in Reserve or when I Deep Strike the card? I may play the card and Deep Strike it on different turns. How does my opponent know the card matches my dial that turn?

Thanks in advance.

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A card put into reserve has no faction, so you can put cards into reserve without reference to the dial, the same as deploying neutrals.

 

The verdict is still out on whether you can Deep Strike units that don't match the dial.

- On the one hand, the rules say that since the reserve card is considered "in play," the unit does not "enter play" when you Deep Strike. So by that reasoning, the enslavement dial doesn't interact with Deep Strike because it only limits which cards can "enter play" by faction.

- On the other hand, that feels like a pretty cheesy way to disregard and/or get around the enslavement mechanic, and even though the enslavement rules pre-date the Deep Strike rules, it seems like the "only non-Necron, non-neutral cards with a matching faction can enter play" apply to Deep Strike, too.

 

Mostly, people presume that we will see a ruling or errata pretty soon that says Necron warlords can only Deep Strike units with factions matching their enslavement dial (at the time of Deep Strike), and feel like that's the way it should be played in the meantime. No real back-up for it in the enslavement or Deep Strike rules, though.

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You "deploy" cards into Deep Strike reserve, and when they come out of Deep Strike reserve they do not count as entering play per the Deep Strike rules.

 

So the only time your enslavement dial has to match the faction you are Deep Striking is during the initial Deploy action to Deep Strike reserve, since the Enslavement dial restricts units that can be either deployed or put in play.

Edited by Greymere

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No, the dial doesn't restrict you when deploying into reserve ("deep striking" is specifically revealing the card), because cards in reserve don't have any characteristics, including faction. As written, the entire Deep Strike mechanic completely bypasses the enslavement dial. That's why people are expecting an erratum (to make the dial count when deep striking).

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The wording for the Enslavement dial rule specifies deploying or entering play, the Deep strike rules specify you "deploy" to Deep Strike reserve, and when it is revealed it is not considered to have entered play, meaning the enslavement dial mechanic only applies at the time it is being deployed.

 

Cards that have entered reserve do not have characteristics, cards deployed to such would have them until they enter that state, the mechanic of deploying the card would precede the game state it enters.

Edited by Greymere

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So, by that reasoning, Slaanesh’s Temptation ("Increase the cost of each enemy unit being deployed at another planet by 1.") on Planet 1 increases the cost to attach Gun Drones or Shadowsun's Steath Cadre to a unit at Planets 2-5? 

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if it is being deployed as a unit, since the text on both those cards indicate they can be deployed or enter play as an attachment, no such text or description appears on Deep Strike cards or under the Deep Strike rules themselves as of yet. Hardly a similar comparison.

 

A card being deployed to Deep strike reserve does not lose any of its characteristics until it enters that state.

 

Your argument is that a card in hand loses all characteristics by virtue of being deployed to Deep strike reserve absent any rules to support this.  There is a cost to deploy to Deep Strike reserve no, can you cite any examples where deployment costs and restrictions are preempted by the game state a card enters the game, that are not interrupts to existing gameplay mechanics?

Edited by Greymere

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Your argument is that a card in hand loses all characteristics by virtue of being deployed to Deep strike reserve absent any rules to support this.

 

 

Shadowsun's Stealth Cadre: "This card may enter play as an attachment with the text, 'Attach to a non-Vehicle army unit. Attached unit gets +2 ATK and +2 HP.'"

 

So, contrary to your comment above, there is no text saying that you can deploy the Cadre as an attachment - only that it may enter play as an attachment. So if deploying a Deep Strike card means that the card has all of its printed characteristics until it actually enters play in reserve (and they are preempted), wouldn't that mean that the Cadre also has all of its printed characteristics until it enters play as an attachment (and its "unit" characteristics are preempted by its "attachment" characteristics)?

 

Said another way, if I am understanding your reasoning correctly, a Deep Strike card is deployed as whatever it us right up until the moment the deployment is successful and the card actually enters play in reserve. And as such, the card is subject to all restrictions on deploying whatever it is (such as the Enslavement Dial) right up until the deployment is successful and the card actually enters play in reserve. 

 

If this were true, then the wording on the Cadre should follow the same logic - it is deployed as a unit right up until the moment the deployment is successful and the card enters play as an attachment (because its text does not say it can be "deployed" as an attachment - only that it can enter play as an attachment). But we know that's not how it works because the Combat Action on Ambush Platform ("Combat Action: Exhaust this support to deploy an attachment from your hand.") can be used to deploy the Cadre as an attachment - despite its text only allowing it to enter play as an attachment.

 

This indicates that once you announce your intention to have the Cadre enter play as an attachment, the restrictions for deploying an attachment are applied, NOT the restrictions for deploying a unit -- which then enters play as an attachment. Doesn't it follow that once you announce your intention to deploy a card into reserve, the restrictions for deploying a card without characteristics into reserve are applied, NOT the restrictions for deploying whatever the card's printed characteristics are -- which then enters play as a card in reserve without characteristics?

 

Further, if the restrictions for a "face up" side of the Deep Strike card are applied while deploying the card into reserve, how could a Deep Strike event ever be deployed into reserve, since events cannot be deployed by definition? Doesn't this pretty decisively indicate that deploying a card into reserve does not consider the characteristics of the face-up card during its deployment?

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Your argument is that a card in hand loses all characteristics by virtue of being deployed to Deep strike reserve absent any rules to support this.

 

 

Shadowsun's Stealth Cadre: "This card may enter play as an attachment with the text, 'Attach to a non-Vehicle army unit. Attached unit gets +2 ATK and +2 HP.'"

 

So, contrary to your comment above, there is no text saying that you can deploy the Cadre as an attachment - only that it may enter play as an attachment. So if deploying a Deep Strike card means that the card has all of its printed characteristics until it actually enters play in reserve (and they are preempted), wouldn't that mean that the Cadre also has all of its printed characteristics until it enters play as an attachment (and its "unit" characteristics are preempted by its "attachment" characteristics)?

 

Said another way, if I am understanding your reasoning correctly, a Deep Strike card is deployed as whatever it us right up until the moment the deployment is successful and the card actually enters play in reserve. And as such, the card is subject to all restrictions on deploying whatever it is (such as the Enslavement Dial) right up until the deployment is successful and the card actually enters play in reserve. 

 

If this were true, then the wording on the Cadre should follow the same logic - it is deployed as a unit right up until the moment the deployment is successful and the card enters play as an attachment (because its text does not say it can be "deployed" as an attachment - only that it can enter play as an attachment). But we know that's not how it works because the Combat Action on Ambush Platform ("Combat Action: Exhaust this support to deploy an attachment from your hand.") can be used to deploy the Cadre as an attachment - despite its text only allowing it to enter play as an attachment.

 

This indicates that once you announce your intention to have the Cadre enter play as an attachment, the restrictions for deploying an attachment are applied, NOT the restrictions for deploying a unit -- which then enters play as an attachment. Doesn't it follow that once you announce your intention to deploy a card into reserve, the restrictions for deploying a card without characteristics into reserve are applied, NOT the restrictions for deploying whatever the card's printed characteristics are -- which then enters play as a card in reserve without characteristics?

 

Further, if the restrictions for a "face up" side of the Deep Strike card are applied while deploying the card into reserve, how could a Deep Strike event ever be deployed into reserve, since events cannot be deployed by definition? Doesn't this pretty decisively indicate that deploying a card into reserve does not consider the characteristics of the face-up card during its deployment?

 

 

Again Your comparison is not apt since one the text on both the Shadowsun Stealth Cadre and Gun drones specifies when its state changes to the moment it is being Deployed or Entering Play, your argument is that Deep Strike rules do the same is an assumption without rulings to support it.  The fact that Deep Striking cards even go further to specify that interrupt effects to modify the cost of deploying such cards cannot be used further strengthens that position since if those cards had no characteristics what cards could modify them to begin with?  Deep Strike rules further specify that Deep strike event cards can only be played from Deep strike reserve. and as Necrons do not include event cards from other factions its not really a consideration anyhow as far as the enslavemet dial is concerned.

 

I saw no FAQ or rules to support your position about an Ambush Platform allowing you to deploy a Shadowsun Stealth Cadre, perhaps you can link those or are those unofficial rulings not posted to the games FAQ? Or are you referring to the entry about Gun Drones?

 

Or are you simply trying to say all Deep strike cards inherently have the constant effect of having no characteristics simply because they are Deep strike cards?  I think that's a far stretch to take.

Edited by Greymere

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your argument is that Deep Strike rules do the same is an assumption without rulings to support it.

 

So, looking at: "Each round, during the deploy phase, a player has the option of using a deployment turn to deploy a card with the Deep Strike keyword to a planet facedown for 1R instead of deploying that card normally for its regular cost. ... the card is then referred to as being 'in reserve'. Being in reserve is a game state that means that the card is in play but facedown. Cards in reserve do not have any characteristics, including title, costs, text, card type, and traits."

 

You deploy a card into reserve, which means the card is deployed into a facedown, in play game state in which the card has no characteristic. Is there a point in which the card is in play but not in reserve? If not, then the Deep Strike card enters play in the "reserve" game state -- just like the Cadre enters play in the "attachment" game state. So the Deep Strike rules specify "when its state changes to the moment it is entering play."

 

 

I saw no FAQ or rules to support your position about an Ambush Platform allowing you to deploy a Shadowsun Stealth Cadre, perhaps you can link those or are those unofficial rulings not posted to the games FAQ?

 

Reference to Ambush Platform working with Stealth Cadre 

 

 

Or are you simply trying to say all Deep strike cards inherently have the constant effect of having no characteristics simply because they are Deep strike cards?  I think that's a far stretch to take.

 

No. I'm saying that when you deploy a Deep Strike card, you make a choice whether you are deploying it normally, or deploying it into reserve. Once you make that choice, you follow restrictions for the card as it will enter play. This is no different than the choice you make when deploying the Cadre - you choose to either deploy it as a unit or as an attachment and once the choice is made, you follow the restrictions for the card as it will enter play.

 

This is what lets you "deploy" a Deep Strike event to begin with, since there is no "normal deployment" for an event (they are played/triggered, not deployed).

 

It's worth noting that FFG has already weighed in "unofficially" on the issue, and you can deploy any card into reserve, no matter what the enslavement dial says.

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