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Road to Legend Questions

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For reference see page 7 of the rules:

ACTION LIST

The activation window displays which type of monster (master or minion) is activating first, followed by a list of potential actions (each marked with the � symbol).

For each monster of the displayed type, players resolve the displayed actions from top to bottom until the monster has performed 2 actions. Any actions that the monster cannot resolve are skipped (see “Skipping Actions” to the right).

If players get to the bottom of the list, they cycle back through it until the monster’s activation ends. The monster’s activation ends after it has resolved 2 actions or when it cannot resolve any actions in the list.

Normal restrictions and special abilities still apply. For example, most monsters cannot attack more than once per activation, so any actions that contain attacks are skipped if the monster already attacked.

"Normal restrictions and special abilities still apply"

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/31/dc/31dc4777-9bfe-49b5-8bd9-687901790454/road_to_legend_rules.pdf

Since I don't have that expansion I haven't seen the Death Cry action list. Is it possible that the Special Effect is allowing Death Cry twice?

 

Well sunuva... been playing this much harder than it was supposed to be. Thanks for the rules correction.

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Someone in this thread said monsters never do two movement activations. We'd been playing that the monsters when they choose to "spot" a hero or "engage" a hero will do their best to do that. If it means moving twice then so be it.

Otherwise they're wasting a turn really really often.

 

Is that not right?

 

I often find it weird that they're saying "spot a hero within 6 spaces who..." because then that often means they're not moving that turn, making it easier for us to kill them later.

Edited by Taear

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That isn't what I am asking - the inference here and in the manual is that if it says engage a hero attack a hero and the nearest one is six squares away they won't do two movement actions in the app even though they would normally.

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That isn't what I am asking - the inference here and in the manual is that if it says engage a hero attack a hero and the nearest one is six squares away they won't do two movement actions in the app even though they would normally.

If I'm reading your question right, what you're missing is that they go back to the top of the action list if they still have an action left in that activation. So they would attempt to engage the closest hero (let's say they move 4 and the closest hero is 6 away), then attempt to attack (but there's no target, so no attack). Then it will go back to the top of the list and move again. I'm not sure who told you that they won't move twice. The intro in the app uses zombies (they are prevented from moving twice by the "shambling" ability), so that may be part of the confusion.

 

It does tend to leave them exposed to hero attacks, but the app tries to counter that with bonus speed, extra damage, or free actions for retreating.

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The monsters usually get a "special" OL condition such as "monsters gain 2 surges; for every unused surge they can 1 movement point"  or sometimes, "Master uses X ability", or "all heroes adjacent to a minion/master get x condition" or like D_D said, bonus speed, extra damage.

 

This is in addition to the two regular actions.  The regular actions follow the standard rules, modified by RtL rules (looping through the action list, looking for actions that can happen). So unless there is a rule that prevents it (zombies) monsters can take 2 move actions to engage and/or spot heroes and/or retreat.

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The monsters usually get a "special" OL condition such as "monsters gain 2 surges; for every unused surge they can 1 movement point"  or sometimes, "Master uses X ability", or "all heroes adjacent to a minion/master get x condition" or like D_D said, bonus speed, extra damage.

 

This is in addition to the two regular actions.  The regular actions follow the standard rules, modified by RtL rules (looping through the action list, looking for actions that can happen). So unless there is a rule that prevents it (zombies) monsters can take 2 move actions to engage and/or spot heroes and/or retreat.

The problem is that this isn't what the rules say. And I don't mean the actual game rules I mean the RtL ones.

It says if it tells you to spot a hero that's one action. So they'd do that single action and then you'd see what they do next. They wouldn't move twice to reach a hero because it's down as just a single action in the app.

 

So for example with Barghests (which often just have 'enage' and then 'attack') or the quests where you're running away from Ettins. They say engage a hero, one action. So those monsters would seem to just move once and then get stuck, making the game a lot easier.

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Not exactly .

Whole phrase after an arrow is action. So if it tell monster to move and do something,or attack and run away, then this would count as single action

And yes. If monster has selected target that it can't attack after single move, and no other actions applicable (e.g. baghrest selected hero with minimal will, whom stand in 8 spaces, he moved once and then there is action > use howl on at least 3 heroes , but only two is in howl's range ) then baghrest will skip all inapplicable action and try to resolve next action. If there is no actions in list, he will start from the beginning. And it's possible for monsters to move twice and do nothing. No problems with difficulty there because monster will compensate with special rule at the top of activation card

For example three baghrest have moved this turn toward one hero. Heroes have killed one, and hurt other. At next activation they used howl twice in a row each on 3 heroes. Which could lead to situation when heroes would suffer 4 fatugue each

Edited by Voidez

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The problem is that this isn't what the rules say. And I don't mean the actual game rules I mean the RtL ones.

It says if it tells you to spot a hero that's one action. So they'd do that single action and then you'd see what they do next. They wouldn't move twice to reach a hero because it's down as just a single action in the app.

 

So for example with Barghests (which often just have 'enage' and then 'attack') or the quests where you're running away from Ettins. They say engage a hero, one action. So those monsters would seem to just move once and then get stuck, making the game a lot easier.

 

 

The relevant passage is on page 7 of the RtL rules (1st column, near the bottom of the page):

 

If players get to the bottom of the list, they cycle back through it until the monster’s activation ends. The monster’s activation ends after it has resolved 2 actions or when it cannot resolve any actions in the list.

So they move, then try to attack. If they can't, then you go back to the top and they move again.

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The problem is that this isn't what the rules say. And I don't mean the actual game rules I mean the RtL ones.

It says if it tells you to spot a hero that's one action. So they'd do that single action and then you'd see what they do next. They wouldn't move twice to reach a hero because it's down as just a single action in the app.

 

So for example with Barghests (which often just have 'enage' and then 'attack') or the quests where you're running away from Ettins. They say engage a hero, one action. So those monsters would seem to just move once and then get stuck, making the game a lot easier.

 

 

The relevant passage is on page 7 of the RtL rules (1st column, near the bottom of the page):

 

If players get to the bottom of the list, they cycle back through it until the monster’s activation ends. The monster’s activation ends after it has resolved 2 actions or when it cannot resolve any actions in the list.

So they move, then try to attack. If they can't, then you go back to the top and they move again.

 

That I missed and it answers my question, thanks.

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p.s. checked wraiths with RTL app. there is activation where two death cries placed together at the beginning of activation? I think, it's a bug.

At the very least a misprint, I agree.

 

Sorry for the late reply.

 

I would 100% skip the second use of Death Cry, but as it's written one after the other it absolutely confuses me how to handle it.

 

So unless the special effect for a monster activation says something about being able to use an ability more than once (if it's limited to one use per round) I'll skip it for now.

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Hey everyone.

 

My first post.  I'm relatively new, but have really dived in and has bought about half of all the Descent products.

I've been reading a ton on this forum to make sure my friend and I are playing correctly, but I have a couple of quesstions.

 

Group Limit:

I was playing the Naga side quest with 2 heroes, which started with all three Nagas as it ignored group limits.  The monster limit for 2 heroes is 1 Master Naga.

 

We had killed all the starting Nagas on the board except 1 minion.  At the end of the turn it told us to spawn 1 Naga.  In this case, it did not say ignoring group limits, so I wasn't sure if I should still spawn the Master as normal as there was already one on the board.  We were kicking ass thanks to really good rolling so I spawned it anyway.  Did we play this right?  My logic is that there was not 1 master on the board so the limit of "only 1 master limit" for two heroes had not yet been reached regardless of the minion

 

Monster movement / Monsters moving twice:

 

Are monster movement points saved if they are not fully used during an engage/spot so that if the monster engage/spots again, it uses the extra movement it did not from the first time?

 

Example:

We have discovered how useful a Geomancer can be at using a summoned stone as a distraction behind us to make monsters that spawn from behind take much longer to catch up with us as we continue to move forward.

 

In this case, we had created a bottle neck for two large monsters.  The hallway was 2 spaces wide.  The first large monster moved and engaged with the summoned stone and missed, so it still stood unharmed and completely blocked the passage.  The 2nd monster did not have enough movement points to continue to move beyond the first monster and stone so that it could enlarge to attack the stone.  Just not enough room for it.

 

It went first next turn and with one engage it still did not have enough space to be able to expand.  So, it then cycled around the activation list to engage again, but of course it could not with its movement.  I believe its speed was 3.

 

So, should it have been able to have 6 movement points on the 2nd engage since it did not use any on the first?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

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I would say that since placing the master naga sets the total group over the limit, you are not allowed to place it unless the app say's to ignore group limits. 

 

As for the second question, I think this gives us a weird situation in where if the monster was exactly behind the bottle necking monster, it would skip the engage action and thus never get any movement point, while if it was able to move at least 1 to get closer, it would get movement point and thus the second engage could possibly succeed. I would love to hear what others think. 

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When you use the "engage" action from the list, the monster gains a number of movement points equal to it's move value.

If this is not enough to let it get close (into engage range) then it can use another move action to gain it's move value in MP again.

 

Another thing to remember is that large monsters contract and expand, which gives them the ability to travel more distance than just the MP they have, so make sure that you take that into account when calculating their movement.

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When you use the "engage" action from the list, the monster gains a number of movement points equal to it's move value.

If this is not enough to let it get close (into engage range) then it can use another move action to gain it's move value in MP again.

 

Another thing to remember is that large monsters contract and expand, which gives them the ability to travel more distance than just the MP they have, so make sure that you take that into account when calculating their movement.

 

But if the "engage" action would not bring the monster closer, wont it skip that action, thus not gaining any mp? 

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When you use the "engage" action from the list, the monster gains a number of movement points equal to it's move value.

If this is not enough to let it get close (into engage range) then it can use another move action to gain it's move value in MP again.

 

Another thing to remember is that large monsters contract and expand, which gives them the ability to travel more distance than just the MP they have, so make sure that you take that into account when calculating their movement.

 

But if the "engage" action would not bring the monster closer, wont it skip that action, thus not gaining any mp? 

 

If it is not in range and it never engages, then it will never be able to attack unless the heroes close in, making a vicious circle of "not in range, can't move, not in range, can't attack"

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When you use the "engage" action from the list, the monster gains a number of movement points equal to it's move value.

If this is not enough to let it get close (into engage range) then it can use another move action to gain it's move value in MP again.

 

Another thing to remember is that large monsters contract and expand, which gives them the ability to travel more distance than just the MP they have, so make sure that you take that into account when calculating their movement.

 

But if the "engage" action would not bring the monster closer, wont it skip that action, thus not gaining any mp? 

 

If it is not in range and it never engages, then it will never be able to attack unless the heroes close in, making a vicious circle of "not in range, can't move, not in range, can't attack"

 

 

Range has nothing to do with this, engage says to get closer to the "XX" hero (xx=closest, most health ..). If you can't get closer (ie if you are adjacent), skip this action. This would be equally true if you can't get closer due to another monster blocking the way. 

 

Range only comes into play if the "engage" action specifies it, "engage the closest hero within 6". If there are no heroes within 6, this monster would not engage. 

 

Here is an example of what I'm asking about. 

 

If y is the master ettin, and x is the minion, and h is the hero. My take is that the minion would not be able to engage the hero and thus he would not use the engange action. The reason is that it would take 4 movement to get to a space where he can expand.  Thus if the minions actions are "engage the closest hero, attack the closes hero" he would do nothing in this situation. 

__________

xxyy   

xxyyh

-----------------

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By that reasoning, If a hero walks away from a monster, so that the monster could not engage him with one action, then the monster would never engage that hero and would always skip the engage action.

 

In your Ettin example, the Minion Ettin could take two move actions to engage the hero from the other side.

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By that reasoning, If a hero walks away from a monster, so that the monster could not engage him with one action, then the monster would never engage that hero and would always skip the engage action.

 

In your Ettin example, the Minion Ettin could take two move actions to engage the hero from the other side.

 

I think the way I understand the issue at hand is that the RtL rules say something along the lines of "If an activation would not change the board or affect something meaningful, then skip it."

 

In a situation, like this one that I brought up, where a monster cannot move any more forward / closer to any hero from an engage activation, then it would be skipped.

 

However, the example in your quote is different because even if the monster cannot get in a position to attack with that activation, the engage activation still creates meaningful change on the board.

 

At least that's how I understand the rules now

Edited by dompoulin

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By that reasoning, If a hero walks away from a monster, so that the monster could not engage him with one action, then the monster would never engage that hero and would always skip the engage action.

 

In your Ettin example, the Minion Ettin could take two move actions to engage the hero from the other side.

 

I fail to see how those two lines makes any logical sense. If any engage action creates a change on the board, it should be taken, thus the monster would move after the heroes. 

 

In my ettin example, taking one engage action does not change the state of the board, thus the ettin would not take it, it is therefore impossible for it to take 2 engage actions. 

 

If you look at another example like the Barghest's, this makes more sense. A typical activation for those might look like this: 

Engage the closest hero

Use Howl on at least 1 hero

Attack the closest hero 

 

A Barghest adjacent to a hero would skip the engage since it does not change the board, even if engaging would let the Barghest howl on 4 instead of 1 hero.  But because the engage was skipped, he does get to both howl and attack. 

 

 

By that reasoning, If a hero walks away from a monster, so that the monster could not engage him with one action, then the monster would never engage that hero and would always skip the engage action.

 

In your Ettin example, the Minion Ettin could take two move actions to engage the hero from the other side.

 

I think the way I understand the issue at hand is that the RtL rules say something along the lines of "If an activation would not change the board or affect something meaningful, then skip it."

 

In a situation, like this one that I brought up, where a monster cannot move any more forward / closer to any hero from an engage activation, then it would be skipped.

 

However, the example in your quote is different because even if the monster cannot get in a position to attack with that activation, the engage activation still creates meaningful change on the board.

 

At least that's how I understand the rules now

 

 

But that's the thing, the engage action does NOT create a meaningful change on the board.  And meaningfull means that the change is in accordance with the goal of the action (get closer to a hero) 

Edited by devzero

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As I discussed with someone else earlier the rules say that if you get to the end of the monster's action list and it has an action left you start again.

 

So you would engage twice, moving 6 (in the case of the ettin) to be near to the heroes as possible.

 

If it didn't work like that then some monsters - Broodwalkers for one - would be totally worthless.

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As I discussed with someone else earlier the rules say that if you get to the end of the monster's action list and it has an action left you start again.

 

So you would engage twice, moving 6 (in the case of the ettin) to be near to the heroes as possible.

 

If it didn't work like that then some monsters - Broodwalkers for one - would be totally worthless.

 

You will loop through and start again, but the Ettin will never take any engage action, because a single engage action would not do any meaningful change to the Ettins position in regards to the closest hero. 

 

Say you have a broodwalker that is 6 away from a hero, with "engage the closest hero, attack a hero" activations. 

A Broodwalker moving 2 towards a hero would create a meaningful change in his position in regards to the closest hero , you would then loop through and determine that he can't attack since he is not adjacent. Then he would start from the top and again the engage would create a meaningful change, thus he would continue to move. 

 

Now say you have a Broodwalker, an Ettin blocking the passage, then the hero, the Broodwalker would simply stand still behind the Ettin, since the engage action would not create a meaningful change. 

 

Then we have the really interesting situation, that I'm not quite sure how works: 

Broodwalker, space, Ettin blockin passage, hero. In this case the broodwalker would move 1 (since that creates a change), loop over his actions and then the second activation of engage would succed since he has 1 MP from the last activation.

 

The only thing is I do not know if monsters MP's are saved from one engage to another, they are if they engage and then retreat, so I assume engage + engage works the same way, but I am unable to find it spelled out in the rules. 

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What I think in this situation is that the problem is if a monster can take two move actions in a row in Road To Legend.
 
The two move actions for monsters has been discussed before, however, I think it changes here because of the activation system and the rules applied to it. While in the traditional gameplay, the Overlord can choose to move a monster consecutively with the two move actions (and getting by that twice the movement points the speed the monster has), in Road to Legend it is understood that each (move) action is taken separately, hence, a monster cannot take two move action consecutively (this because what we understand from the sections “Activation List” and “Skipping Actions” from page 8 of the RtL-Rules, is that an action is taken and concluded before taking another action in order to decide whether a second action can be taken or skipped).
 
From my perspective, you have two solutions:
   Solution 1) Treat this problem as a decision making, page 10 of RtL-Rules.
 

DECISION-MAKING

When resolving app instructions, players frequently have multiple options. When this happens, it is up to the players to decide how to resolve it within the confines of the provided instructions.
 
How the decision-making is approached is largely up to the play group. New players or players looking for a easier experience are free to steer the monsters toward choices that favor the heroes. Players looking for a true test of skill should steer the monsters toward the tactical maneuvers that a skilled overlord would employ.

 

   Solution 2) Consider that skipping an action does not interrupt the action cycle and thus a monster can take two move actions consecutively, then apply the rule of two moving actions from the core Rulebook, page 8 Move.
 

Move

When a hero player performs a move action, he receives a number of movement points equal to his hero’s Speed (represented by a ª on the Hero sheet). Moving into an adjacent space costs one movement point (with the exception of entering certain types of terrain; see “Terrain” on page 18). The player may choose to move fewer spaces than his hero’s Speed. A hero may also decide to perform two move actions consecutively, in which case the hero receives movement points equal to twice his Speed.

 

Either way, a monster will take two move actions consecutively.
 

 

Then we have the really interesting situation, that I'm not quite sure how works: 

Broodwalker, space, Ettin blockin passage, hero. In this case the broodwalker would move 1 (since that creates a change), loop over his actions and then the second activation of engage would succed since he has 1 MP from the last activation.

 

The only thing is I do not know if monsters MP's are saved from one engage to another, they are if they engage and then retreat, so I assume engage + engage works the same way, but I am unable to find it spelled out in the rules. 

 

You may undestand this as an interruption of a move action, and then, applying the example given in the official FAQ, page 3.
 

Movement

Q: Can a figure interrupt its move action to perform another move action, and if so, how are the spaces moved through during the first and second move action differentiated (and what happens if a card instructs you to “end your move action”)? How do the players differentiate between spaces that were moved through due to an action and spaces that were moved through due to suffering fatigue?
A: When a figure performs a move action, that figure receives a number of movement points equal to his Speed. A figure can interrupt its move action to perform an additional move action, which gives that figure additional movement points. There is no need to differentiate the two move actions because they are both move actions. If a card instructs you to end your move action and that figure performed two move actions, then both actions end and that figure loses all unspent movement points.
However, if a hero player wishes to suffer fatigue to gain movement points in the middle of a move action, he must declare exactly when he is suffering the fatigue within the move action and which spaces he moves into with those additional movement points.

 

You perfom a move action with the Broodwalker (getting 3 MP) move only 1 space (2 MP left), interrupt that move action to perfom a second move action (combining then the 2 MP left with the new 3 MP into some kind of pool) and then moving the Broodwalker 5 spaces (if able).

 

So, in conclusion, yes, MP are saved in some kind of pool from any source (fatigue, item, effect, action) and spend however it's possible.

Edited by Volkren

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What I think in this situation is that the problem is if a monster can take two move actions in a row in Road To Legend.

No, that's not the question here, the question here is: 

Will a monster consider what his next action is, when choosing what actions he wants to resolve. 

 

From my understanding of the rules, a monster will not. Thus if a single engage/spot action will not result in a change in the board, he will never take it. 

 

From RTL rules, page 7 "skipping actions", first bullet point: 

 

• If an action instructs a monster to move in some fashion, but it is already in the space that the action would move it to, skip that action.

 

Also on the same page under "Action list" 

 

If players get to the bottom of the list, they cycle back through it until the monster’s activation ends. The monster’s activation ends after it has resolved 2 actions or when it cannot resolve any actions in the list.

Thus the monster skip's the engage action, then cycles through and finds that it cannot resolve any actions in the list and ends he's turn. 

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