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Hawkstrike

Why is Scum the Large ship faction?

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Because I'm willing to bet Scum is never getting a Huge ship, so FFG is compensating by giving them more Large ships so they can be competitive in Epic.

 

I would be very surprised if this were true. I have a sense that Davies is kind of a Scum fanboy. Not to the point where he will unbalance the game to make them the best faction, but certainly I would be surprised if one of his favorite ships in all of Star Wars wasn't a Scum Huge ship. And if one of his favorite ships _is_ a Scum Huge ship, we're going to get it in the game.

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Scum and Villainy are comprised of two basic groups: Independent Contractors (Bounty Hunters/Assassins/Mercs/Smugglers) and Organized Crime syndicates members. With the first group, larger ships are preferable for multiple reasons. Cargo space, survivability, living space (lack of a permanent home base makes the ship their home), and ability to customize the ship is easier with a large ship.

 

For the second group, Organized Crime, we see that they generally are the ones piloting the small-base Scum ships, not the larger ships. This makes sense because these ships are used as escorts for the criminals cargo transports, not designed as the cargo transporters themselves.

 

The Scum, as a faction, also have a very limited amount of capital ships available, as they are not governments in the main (aside from the Hutts). Having large, military style/sized ships is going to look awfully suspicious to actual militaries. So having more freighter-sized ships gives them more flexibility with the legalities that the Empire/Republic may inflict.

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Every single person in this thread is wrong and is missing the real reason why Scum is the large base faction. Them having more large bases than other factions is a factor, and so is them having really strong options for crew, but that's not the real reason why.

 

None their small base ships are competitive.

 

M3-A? Trash.

 

Starviper? Trash.

 

G1-A? Trash.

 

Kirjksdfgjnksdvjnksdfsdfjhksdfjhkxz? Trash.

 

Which is exactly why they have nearly twice as many large base ships as the other 2 factions?

 

It explains why most scum lists are just multiple large bases.

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Because I'm willing to bet Scum is never getting a Huge ship, so FFG is compensating by giving them more Large ships so they can be competitive in Epic.

 

I would be very surprised if this were true. I have a sense that Davies is kind of a Scum fanboy. Not to the point where he will unbalance the game to make them the best faction, but certainly I would be surprised if one of his favorite ships in all of Star Wars wasn't a Scum Huge ship. And if one of his favorite ships _is_ a Scum Huge ship, we're going to get it in the game.

 

I imagine that designing Scum ships into the game is simultaneously the most fun, and the most difficult task they have. Considering the diverse array of ships and crew, as well as the "dirty tricks" idea they've build into it (which is the main reason I'm loving them lately), it has to be a blast to be involved with from a sheer thematic design standpoint. I mean, I know Dead Man's Switch is rarely used, but if ever there was a card that set a tone for a faction...

The difficulty in reigning it in to suit the game isn't something I'd be envious of, but **** if that wouldn't be a fun meeting to be a part of.

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As of Wave 9 ...

 

Scum: 8 small, 5 large

 

Imperial: 10 small, 3 large, 2 huge

 

Rebel: 11 small, 3 large, 2 huge

 

I'm discounting the huge ships since they can only be used in Epic play. Scum construction also seems to encourage multiple large based ships in a list, which we don't see nearly as much with the other factions.

 

From this list, two of those S&V small ships are Z-95 and Y-wing. It's impressive that they have as many ships as they do when they started out so far behind the other two factions. It's in character that they have more large ships as noted by excellent posts in this thread, but I think from a practicality standpoint, FFG needed to hold back on huge ships to maintain parity in the tournament scene. And this list illustrates that parity is achieved.

 

We will see either a Star Jewel or Wild Karrde before long. Gecko's list of Rebel and Imperial large ships is very likely moving from FFG backburner now that the parity is fairly solid.

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Because I'm willing to bet Scum is never getting a Huge ship, so FFG is compensating by giving them more Large ships so they can be competitive in Epic.

I disagree. Perhaps Scum & Villainy will never get a huge ship. I highly doubt that, but even if it were true, it doesn't seem like they would pack large ships into the faction with Epic play in mind. No, this is much more of a lore deal. Most of the iconic ships that would align with Scum & Villainy are large ships, so those are the ships the designers are creating.

 

And let me reiterate that I strongly believe we are getting Scum huge ship ... and soon. I feel like it will probably be announced this year and we'll receive it next year.

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Scum cant smuggle crap around when they dont have the size for hidden compartments all over the place.

 

That being said though, it really bugs me that theyre all agile as frack. Except the Hounds Tooth...i think...never actually faced that one lol.

Large ships are suppose to trade agility for beef, preventing potential 1shots but suffering to prolonged attacks. 2-3 agi on a ship with respectable hull/shields is just bs, because they still take several turns to kill but now they can get dice luck and literally take no damage.

 

Faced a Dengar that did just that. Entire **** game i hammered him with a decimator (usually range1) and 2 tie/fos, one of which was ptl omega ace for auto tripcrit range1. I took his shields out by the time he cleared me and i was NOT missing horribly (3hits on average with decimator, 1-2 with epsilon leader, auto 2-3 with omega ace). Meanwhile every time he attacks my decimator gets weaker because unlike him i cant evade any incoming damage, so even a bad roll hurts.

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Why do the Scum have more large ships?  In terms of pure game balance (and not lore), I believe it is because many of their abilities and upgrades require that said ship survive the initial encounter to make it worthwhile.

 

If we excluse the tripple U-Boats configurations, their large ships have the combination of agility / hull / shields to survive for a while and make use of their ugrades to hamper enemy forces (instead of regenerating or causing tremendous damage).

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So how on earth is a Jumpmaster so much more manoeuvrable than an X-Wing?

Although I do agree that military designed ships should be better at fighting and defending, maneuverability isn't an issue in relation to size in space. Remember, it's a nearly perfect vaccum, it produces no resistance, and for all intents and purposes, it hap practically zero gravity interactions with objects. Therefore, thrust and inertia are all that is important, size and weight are factors almost too small to calculate/interfere.

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Technically size does have an impact on maneuverability in space. Not in the way you'd think though.

 

A larger ship has a much greater mass, meaning it takes a lot more effort to move it (or stop it) than a smaller ship. I dont get why a large ship would ever be able to barrelroll without getting a stress in this game when ships like an Xwing cant do it. A large ship would require a LOT of propulsion laterally/vertically to not only kick off the barrelroll but also STOP the barrelroll, while a small could easily do it with minimal effort.

Planes are impacted because of the air, so wingsize effects them. It also stabilizes them automatically. In space, nothing does that, you have to correct it yourself. Double the weight? Double the effort (if not more).

 

Uboats i can understand having a barrelroll because of the design. The U part of the ship could easily just be pure engines and maneuvering thrustors. But theres no way it has that much storage for crap if its dedicating so much of its volume to movement. And if they DIDNT have anything on that part of the ship, then the angle i.e. leverage would be really really unwieldy for the offset center part. Try stopping a sledgehammer after you swung it in the air, the leverage alone wouldnt let you do it very easily.

Edited by Vineheart01

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Technically size does have an impact on maneuverability in space. Not in the way you'd think though.

 

A larger ship has a much greater mass, meaning it takes a lot more effort to move it (or stop it) than a smaller ship. I dont get why a large ship would ever be able to barrelroll without getting a stress in this game when ships like an Xwing cant do it. A large ship would require a LOT of propulsion laterally/vertically to not only kick off the barrelroll but also STOP the barrelroll, while a small could easily do it with minimal effort.

Planes are impacted because of the air, so wingsize effects them. It also stabilizes them automatically. In space, nothing does that, you have to correct it yourself. Double the weight? Double the effort (if not more).

 

Uboats i can understand having a barrelroll because of the design. The U part of the ship could easily just be pure engines and maneuvering thrustors. But theres no way it has that much storage for crap if its dedicating so much of its volume to movement. And if they DIDNT have anything on that part of the ship, then the angle i.e. leverage would be really really unwieldy for the offset center part. Try stopping a sledgehammer after you swung it in the air, the leverage alone wouldnt let you do it very easily.

 

 

Have you ever watched a Star Wars movie? There are mother-loving space wizards!

Look at the asteroid field scene in ESB. The Falcon is outmaneuvering smaller nimble TIE fighters. TFA has the Falcon juking TIEs in the atmosphere. 

Edited by WWHSD

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Yes, it is Star Wars and obviously the military who trains and is in combat is WAY less talented and have worse ships than the random criminal who has the resources to have better training and buy better ships. Yeah....I really am having a hard time with this whole super live for scum. I wanted more scum, love the scummy things they can do.... But not with better ships and better pilots.

Only shows that the rebels should have contracted with some criminals to run Jumpmasters at the Death Star.

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Because I'm willing to bet Scum is never getting a Huge ship, so FFG is compensating by giving them more Large ships so they can be competitive in Epic.

 

I would be very surprised if this were true. I have a sense that Davies is kind of a Scum fanboy. Not to the point where he will unbalance the game to make them the best faction, but certainly I would be surprised if one of his favorite ships in all of Star Wars wasn't a Scum Huge ship. And if one of his favorite ships _is_ a Scum Huge ship, we're going to get it in the game.

I imagine that designing Scum ships into the game is simultaneously the most fun, and the most difficult task they have. Considering the diverse array of ships and crew, as well as the "dirty tricks" idea they've build into it (which is the main reason I'm loving them lately), it has to be a blast to be involved with from a sheer thematic design standpoint. I mean, I know Dead Man's Switch is rarely used, but if ever there was a card that set a tone for a faction...

The difficulty in reigning it in to suit the game isn't something I'd be envious of, but **** if that wouldn't be a fun meeting to be a part of.

In an interview he said almost exactly this: (I'm probably paraphrasing slightly)

"The huge ships have sold very well, and Fantasy Flight tends to continue to make things that are like products that sell."

There will assuredly be a Scum epic release. It's only a matter of time, but that time may be a while.

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Most of the rebels in Episode IV had little to no military training and mostly were scavenged ships and they had no budget. 

 

Most of the Scum ships are bounty hunter ships and most of those started out as military or police vehicles bought when said police or military got new ships and then heavily modified with illegal tech. Also the starviper is a state of the art military ship. 

The Empire's star fighters aren't state of the art military ships for the most part. They viewed their pilots as expendable and there for didn't even equip most of them with shields hyper drives or life support. All of the empires money was spent on giant capital ships and eventually the deathstar which practically bankrupted the empire. The tie-defender and the phantom were state of the art because the empire realized that their tactic of we will just pummel your world into submission from orbit with the star destroyers. Didn't work against an enemy like the rebels.

 

Its a large galaxy and the empire wasn't the only one with a standing navy. Also there are better ship construction companies then sienar or incom.

 

Judging the ships based on what you know of our current military isn't going to work in starwars because the ones who would care to have top of the line star fighters don't have the budget. And the main force in the movies that has the budget doesn't care.

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Yes, it is Star Wars and obviously the military who trains and is in combat is WAY less talented and have worse ships than the random criminal who has the resources to have better training and buy better ships. Yeah....I really am having a hard time with this whole super live for scum. I wanted more scum, love the scummy things they can do.... But not with better ships and better pilots.

Only shows that the rebels should have contracted with some criminals to run Jumpmasters at the Death Star.

 

You're also comparing entirely different classes of ships. The light snub fighters are meant to be effective when flown in squadrons, while the larger ships used by bounty hunters and rebels tend to operate solo. X-Wing only has two large base military ships and both of them belong to the Empire (VT-49 and Lambda). A bounty hunter or smuggler is likely to spend a lot more on pimping their ride than a military would. The military is going to value standardization, dependability, and interchangeable parts, they are also buying ships by the hundreds or by the thousands. You bounty hunter is buying and tricking out a single ship (with maybe a backup stashed somewhere if they're flush with cash).

A ship the size of the Jumpmaster wouldn't have fit in the trench very well and would have been easier for the turbo-laser batteries to target.   

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Every single person in this thread is wrong and is missing the real reason why Scum is the large base faction. Them having more large bases than other factions is a factor, and so is them having really strong options for crew, but that's not the real reason why.

 

None their small base ships are competitive.

 

M3-A? Trash.

 

Starviper? Trash.

 

G1-A? Trash.

 

Kirjksdfgjnksdvjnksdfsdfjhksdfjhkxz? Trash.

 

The G1A and StarViper aren't trash.  The G1A has been in at least 1 regional winning list, quite a few more runners up, and a bunch of top 8 or 16s.  The StarViper is a bit overcosted, and isn't quite competitive, but it's not terrible.  I've actually ahd some successful lists with it.  Guri's been in a few top 4 and top 8 lists, but that's more in spite of the ship than because of it.  It could definitely use some love.  The Kihraxz isn't good, and the M3A definitely needs love (though I've been having fun - and doing pretty well - with a 5 M3A list).

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Because they are more freelance independent operators and thusly have to be more self sufficient without the use of multiple bases to support them. That means rolling around the galaxy in a bigger ship to haul all of the crap you are going to need.

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I still think FFG should have stuck to the formula they did with the YT-1300 and made the generic pilot for these large base ships with a less powerful stat line. It made sense thematically when that ship was released.

 

I agree, though I actually believe that ALL pilots should have the lower statline, with a unique title that allows them to become the 1 singular badass ship of that type (see Punishing One, Outrider).

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I'm discounting the huge ships since they can only be used in Epic play. Scum construction also seems to encourage multiple large based ships in a list, which we don't see nearly as much with the other factions.

S&V is also (in our local meta) Called MERCS

because they're goddamn mercs and half of the faction is composed of bounty hunters and their super-beefy search&destroy vessels.

You can't perform long journeys and have materiel for it f you stick to snubfighters.

 

3-decked SATANIC TRUNK OF YV-666 DOOM certainly is an exemplar fof that.

hence Large Ship Merc Faction

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