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xanderf

Wishlist: weapons that deliver 'weapon disabled' token to target

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As above.  So far...no 'weapon disabled' tokens delivered by any weapon in the game.  It's a cool effect, and IMHO could be thematic to have some kind of weapon that could deliver it.

 

I think bombs would be one great choice, for example.  At the moment, we have bombs that when detonating:

  • Deliver a stress token all near targets (thermal detonator)
  • Deliver ion tokens to the targets (ion bombs)
  • Deliver simple damage to the targets (seismic charges)
  • Delivers critical damage to the targets (proton bombs)

I could easily see a bomb that, when detonating, delivers a 'weapon disabled' token to all ships in range 1 (FWIW, I'd expect this bomb to be priced even higher than the proton bomb)

 

Another possibility would be a cannon or missile.  As above, we have cannons that deliver ion tokens, drop stress tokens, etc.  Given what the game has already borrowed from the old LucasArts games...a 3-attack cannon that does no damage, but drops a 'weapon disabled' token on hitting?  I think we could call that a 'mag pulse' and everyone would smile and nod...

 

MOST importantly to any of these suggestions, though - I think they'd help solve a bit of the irritation around the turn-1-of-combat-joust with U-boat wolfpacks.  Being able to shut them off for a turn of combat, even just one turn, to give your own ships a chance to start the maneuvering game before the Space Yahtzee that usually ends a big portion of your list...that'd be very, very handy.

Edited by xanderf

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It's got to be ordnance only. Cannon is too consistent. I think it would be a fun idea if it could be appropriately implimented.

 

That's probably true.  Missiles and bombs, then?

 

As noted, the key is really to provide just that little bit of breathing room on initial joust with some of the more ridiculous jousting lists out there - once you are into the merge, you've got more of a chance against them, because maneuver and out-flying your opponent enters the picture.  But the map is so small that, aside from trying a perfectly-timed rule-of-11 advance (for the ships that can even DO that), there really isn't any other option at the moment.

 

(EDIT: although I'm not actually sure even a cannon would be a problem.  I mean, obviously it'd need to be a 0-damage cannon.  And obviously cost 4 pts so the TIE Defender can't use it in a double-tap.  Otherwise, if you use it, and hit...they can't shoot you, and while you shot them...you did no damage.  So it's not like anyone is hurting anyone on those turns - you are just burning your attack on what amounts to a 'hey, pause, time-out, let's regroup' sort of ploy.  I can see that still being too consistent, sure, and maybe limiting the idea to ONLY ordnance makes the most sense...but I think it could work as a cannon, too.)

Edited by xanderf

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Only if it is discarded or only one firepower or requires some thing else like having an ion token. If Large ships were still a thing I could see that weapon work give a weapons disabled token to a ship with an ion token.

 

As you see the pitfall here is having 1 ship with a permanent weapons disabled token as it keeps getting hit from a 9-12 skill pilot and taking a weapons disabled token. Not to mention that 1 and 2 pilot skill ships will have no use for it as the token is disabled at the end of the round.

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As you see the pitfall here is having 1 ship with a permanent weapons disabled token as it keeps getting hit from a 9-12 skill pilot and taking a weapons disabled token.

 

But that 9-12 skill pilot isn't doing anything else, so...makes for a bit of a boring game, but it's not like they are being shot to death while being handcuffed.  Just...very, very inconvenienced.

 

Still, I can see the value of the argument that it makes sense to be discarded on use, so...missile it is, then.

 

Say...

 

Mag Pulse

(Missile upgrade)

Attack [Target Lock]: Discard this card to perform this attack. If the attack hits, the defender receives 1 'weapon disabled' token and receives 2 ion tokens. Then cancel all dice results. Attack: 3. Range 2-3.  Cost: 5

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Not to mention that 1 and 2 pilot skill ships will have no use for it as the token is disabled at the end of the round.

 

THAT, of course, is the REAL problem with the 'weapon disabled' as a weapon of any kind.  It makes it...well, kinda useless for low-skill pilots.

 

I guess it retains is use as a bomb, though.  I mean...odds of a low-skill pilot HITTING a high-skill pilot with a bomb are...pretty low.  But at least it would hit them at a point in the turn sequence were it would impact their combat phase.  Anything that drops a 'weapon disabled' and is an 'Attack' is going to have that problem - lower-skilled pilots get literally nothing at all by shooting it at higher skill pilots.  Any 'Attack' they do is already far too late to impact the combat from a high-skill pilot (with the exception, I suppose, of Dengar or Corran)

 

Although...huh.  I mean, the upcoming ARC-170 *does* have a torpedo upgrade on it that is an 'Action' to use, not an 'Attack'.  So...wonder if FFG already thought of this...

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I agree it would be a good effect to bring into the game.

IMO, as:

* a direct fire weapon (I feel the delayed action timing of a bomb would hamper its usefulless);

* thus, a Missile (keeps it to 1 shot, 2 max with EM);

* a Unique (to keep from spamming)

* Small or Large ship only (to keep out of the 'unlimited Ordinance carrier')... even Small ship only if you wanted tighter restriction.

Edit: wrt the first point, if there was a Bomb variant, low PS pilots could get something out of it...

...perhaps just "Mag-pulse" could be the name on the unique card, and it could be supplied as separate Missile and Bomb upgrades.

I like the thought of it as a Torpedo, but don't think it fits the sort of ship with that shot.

I'm undecided whether area-effect should be a possibility.

_

Edited by ABXY

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Anything that drives PS race further is bad. PERIOD.

 

Hmm.  Well, of all the ordnance out there...mines definitely work the best for lower-PS pilots.

 

Something like...?

 

Mag Field

(Bomb/mine upgrade)

Action: Discard this card to drop 1 mag field token (Conner Net template?) When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates. When the bomb token detonates, the ship that moved through or overlapped this token receives one 'weapon disabled' token. Then discard this token.

 

...addresses the 'useless to all but highest-skill pilots' problem, but makes it...I dunno, kinda underwhelming.  And really doesn't help much on that first-turn-of-combat-joust thing, which is where I'd see the biggest boost from a new weapon like this.  I mean, a new mechanic for the sake of a new mechanic is fine and all, but...that's best when it solves a problem in the game at the same time, no?

Edited by xanderf

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I made this a while ago.

 

x_wing_miniatures_game___custom_torpedo_

 

Yes, there is the issue of being useful only to high PS pilots, which, in my opinion, hurt the card badly.

 

Solutions:

- give the weapons disable token after the clean-up phase?

- change the text for "Action: (Target Lock)" instead of "Attack: (Target Lock)"?

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Mag Pulse Missile:

Range 1-3

3 Atk

Attack [Target Lock]: Discard this card to perform this attack. If the attack hits, the defender receives 1 'weapon disabled' token. Then cancel all dice results, If the Attackers Pilot Skill is higher than the Defender then the Defendrr may roll 1 additional Defence Dice.

Cost: 5

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THAT, of course, is the REAL problem with the 'weapon disabled' as a weapon of any kind.  It makes it...well, kinda useless for low-skill pilots.

 

Unless it were an activation phase effect.

 

And isn't there an activation phase ordnance card with currently unknown effect in the ARC?

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Not to mention that 1 and 2 pilot skill ships will have no use for it as the token is disabled at the end of the round.

 

THAT, of course, is the REAL problem with the 'weapon disabled' as a weapon of any kind.  It makes it...well, kinda useless for low-skill pilots.

 

I guess it retains is use as a bomb, though.  I mean...odds of a low-skill pilot HITTING a high-skill pilot with a bomb are...pretty low.  But at least it would hit them at a point in the turn sequence were it would impact their combat phase.  Anything that drops a 'weapon disabled' and is an 'Attack' is going to have that problem - lower-skilled pilots get literally nothing at all by shooting it at higher skill pilots.  Any 'Attack' they do is already far too late to impact the combat from a high-skill pilot (with the exception, I suppose, of Dengar or Corran)

 

Although...huh.  I mean, the upcoming ARC-170 *does* have a torpedo upgrade on it that is an 'Action' to use, not an 'Attack'.  So...wonder if FFG already thought of this...

 

 

Change it so it isn't discarded at the end of the round.  You could make it similar to the crit, "Roll 0 dice during your next attack and discard the token".  Or you could tie it to a maneuver (green, straight, etc).

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Not to mention that 1 and 2 pilot skill ships will have no use for it as the token is disabled at the end of the round.

 

THAT, of course, is the REAL problem with the 'weapon disabled' as a weapon of any kind.  It makes it...well, kinda useless for low-skill pilots.

 

I guess it retains is use as a bomb, though.  I mean...odds of a low-skill pilot HITTING a high-skill pilot with a bomb are...pretty low.  But at least it would hit them at a point in the turn sequence were it would impact their combat phase.  Anything that drops a 'weapon disabled' and is an 'Attack' is going to have that problem - lower-skilled pilots get literally nothing at all by shooting it at higher skill pilots.  Any 'Attack' they do is already far too late to impact the combat from a high-skill pilot (with the exception, I suppose, of Dengar or Corran)

 

Although...huh.  I mean, the upcoming ARC-170 *does* have a torpedo upgrade on it that is an 'Action' to use, not an 'Attack'.  So...wonder if FFG already thought of this...

 

 

Change it so it isn't discarded at the end of the round.  You could make it similar to the crit, "Roll 0 dice during your next attack and discard the token".  Or you could tie it to a maneuver (green, straight, etc).

 

 

Perhaps, although none of the other weapons that drop some kind of token (crit, stress, ion) change the rules in how that token works.  So I'd rather avoid something that does that, here.

 

Honestly, the best solution is for the effect to occur during the activation phase.

 

Which really makes me wonder about that torpedo in the ARC expansion - I mean...sure, it could have something to do with obstacles, but...given the unique problems around a weapon system using the 'weapon disabled' token during the combat phase (that it goes away at the end of the turn, so is completely useless for lower-skilled pilots against higher-skilled pilots), I dunno.  My gut says FFG figured this out and we're getting it in the ARC pack.

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It's got to be ordnance only. Cannon is too consistent. I think it would be a fun idea if it could be appropriately implimented.

which means its going to be a turret ;)

 

Bombs make the most sense, something akin to an EMP blast or something shorting your targeting systems out. I want more bombs in the game anyway lol.

 

Also neat idea on the weapons jamming token but that is way too powerful to have a multi-turn effect, even if it is an ordnance. Nullify this turn (if i fired first) and your next turn at MOST but that shows i could bring a Bomber with that ordnance and a Defender with the cannon and zap someone for 3 tokens immediately, and completely ignore them for 3 rounds afterwords. Thats way more powerful than Ion lol

Edited by Vineheart01

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Honestly, if it doesn't do any damage, its not that good on high PS pilots.

 

Well, we are getting a Missile with the 'Action:'- header, that would be very much the way to make this effective.

Good call!

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