Massive Darkness

[Crabbok 9,869]

Kickstarter launched yesterday and they are on track to break $1 Million in the first 24 hours!

 

Anyhow, if you've ever played Zombicide this game should feel familiar, as it's made by the same people, and follow nearly the same rules.   However it's a Dungeon Crawl.  Unlike most other dungeon crowl games however, you don't need a game master.  The game engine runs itself.   So you can play fully cooperative or even solo if you want.  

 

  Personally, outside of FFG games, CMON games are the only other company that I really really love.  This game looks to be amazing as well and I wanted to share!

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/massive-darkness/comments

[NeverBetTheFett 1,515]

The Darkness is spreading!

[Robin Graves 6,054]

I attack the darkness!

[Crabbok 9,869]

Major update today!

 

  The announced a Zombicide Black Plague Crossover!    Basically it is a DOUBLE crossover, allowing you to use Zombicide stuff in Massive Darkness, PLUS allowing you to use Massive Darkness stuff in Zombicide Black Plague! 

 

This is some pretty awesome stuff right here!    It's an optional buy but only 8 bucks so one of the cheapest add-ons I've ever seen!   So pumped for this thing!  

 

  And btw if you haven't played Zombicide or Zombicide Black Plague, you are missing out!   Black Plague is the best cooperative board game ever!

[Grayfax 991]

OMG! I wish I could unsee this!  

I don't need to spend $120 this month... ok... $128... ugghhh... must... stay... str...

[Fuzzywookie 2,145]

I was born in the darkness.

[Grayfax 991]

I thought my wife would talk me down... she said, "Oh... so it's like Diablo?" She loves Diablo.  

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

This is tempting. That gameplay video looks like fun.

 

The black plague thing sounds both awesome and disappointing. Checking out it's kickstarter, there were a ton of kickstarter exclusives that I'll never own. I hate kickstarter exclusives... if I decide to buy black plague at retail I'll have an incomplete game that will never be complete. (mostly I saw there was a plague doctor... and I love plague doctors)

[Grayfax 991]

Yeah... the Kickstarter exclusives are a pain with CMON games.  It does get a lot of people to put in a ton of cash but if you miss it, you most likely won't have those items unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and some additional money on tracking them all down.  At least they have been consistent though.  I would be upset if I had bought in for exclusives and then suddenly they are selling them out of the shop... except you basically get them for free and the other people have to pay for them.  Whatever... it obviously is working for them.

I'm just hoping the model quality is improving over time.  I have the Zombicide and Mall expansion and the heroes are really good casts while the zombies were on the poor side.  Mostly my wife loves zombies, so it was a great success.  With a year to complete my painting backlog, I should be able to be ready when these come in.  If I'm lucky, I'll have picked up some Black Plague between now and then.  

[EastCoast 1,349]

Well, I just pledged 128 for my first kickstarter ever.  If it goes horribly, I'm blaming Crabbok.

 

I picked up Zombicide Black Plague for a measly 59.99, so I figure I'm playing with house money at this point.

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

Yeah... the Kickstarter exclusives are a pain with CMON games.  It does get a lot of people to put in a ton of cash but if you miss it, you most likely won't have those items unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and some additional money on tracking them all down.  At least they have been consistent though.  I would be upset if I had bought in for exclusives and then suddenly they are selling them out of the shop... except you basically get them for free and the other people have to pay for them.  Whatever... it obviously is working for them.

I'm just hoping the model quality is improving over time.  I have the Zombicide and Mall expansion and the heroes are really good casts while the zombies were on the poor side.  Mostly my wife loves zombies, so it was a great success.  With a year to complete my painting backlog, I should be able to be ready when these come in.  If I'm lucky, I'll have picked up some Black Plague between now and then.

And I just saw there are Monty python heroes, David Bowie goblin king, ash from evil dead, so many amazing figures I want to have when my dark souls game arrives. Sigh. Off to ebay to find a full black plague lot.

 

Edit: Somuch money, but totally worth it. Full set of Black Plague is on its way to me. And I backed Massive Darkness plus the conversion kit and the 3d doors.

Edited June 21, 2016 by ViscerothSWG

[Grayfax 991]

Wow... and I thought I was jumping in with two feet!  Way to go Visceroth!

 

Edit: And I retract my statement.  With my Apple eBook Bonus in my Amazon account and a $25 Amazon card I have from my birthday last month... I can have Black Plague and Wulfsburg headed to my house this week!  I'm going to have to seriously step up my zombie painting schedule... and just learn to deal with the cats and the paint (at least one of them is now just over a year old).

Edited June 21, 2016 by Grayfax

[EastCoast 1,349]

Well assuming nobody changes their pledge, it looks like the last pledge goal was hit... Oops, looks like they had Werebear hiding in the wings.  Filthy sneaking werebearses.

[NotBatman 706]

Based on prior Kickstarters, they don't have all their upcoming pledge goals on the site - there's 15 days left, they'll keep coming up with more as each is hit.

 

If I recall correctly, by the end of the Black Plague KS, they were scrambling to come up with more goals, but they kept a steady stream coming.

 

I'm torn on this one - I'm a big Zombicide fan, but I've got SO MUCH of it and more on the way. Even that doesn't see the table all that often. I like the idea of this one, and it's even more tempting with the BP crossover kit (though since it's cards-only, I wish they'd just make cards for ALL the BP survivors) but I think I'm going to pass, this time...

 

Probably...

[Grayfax 991]

My wife is the bonafide Zombicide addict.  She loves the coop, but mostly she loves Zombies!!! (not necessarily the game of the same name, though we have it).  The Massive Darkness appeals to my old gamer self with lots of playtime in the original Diablo and the red boxed set of D&D.  Having played Zombicide, I know that this will be harder than either of those were, but we don't have to spin up a DM and build a world.  I'm sure we'll have stories with the characters and voices, so that part will be fine and scratch a bit of the RPG itch without the weekly commitment. Oddly enough, the thing that hooked me the most was the $8 buy in that connected Black Plague and Massive Darkness.  Even if it is a one-way port into Massive Darkness and allows use of all the basic characters from Black Plague and brings in the zombie hordes, then it makes me happy and my wife happy and it being co-op means we'll play it with other people.  People that won't necessarily commit to X-Wing because they see it mostly as a one versus one game or a really big game that takes a lot of time (these being some of the same people that stayed up until 3 am finishing a Zombicide game... guess they aren't Star Wars fans...).

[Crabbok 9,869]

 

...I hate kickstarter exclusives... if I decide to buy black plague at retail I'll have an incomplete game that will never be complete. ...

 Ok so here's the thing about Black Plague, and why I feel it's better than previous CMON games as it applies to kickstarter exclusives. 

 

I've played the core game of Black Plague several times now.   The Kickstarter shipped all of us our core games last December, partially as a Christmas Present, but also partially because they had SO many backers they were running out of room in their warehouse.   So I had JUST the core game for a long time. It's a good, SOLID game.  Now I got all the REST of my stuff last month (Kickstarter exclusives, Optional Buys, Wulfsburg expansion, etc).   They make the game WAY more interesting, and also way more hard.  So all in all, yeah you'll want more than just the core box. 

 

  But here's the thing - almost all of the BEST stuff about Black Plague are ALSO going to be available at retail.  The expansion (obvious), the hero pack, the artist boxes, and all the rest of those optional buys.  If you are on the fence about buying black plague at retail then please KEEP READING!

 

Black Plagues BIGGEST problem was the OVERWHELMING amount of survivors it has right now if you backed the kickstarter.   Honestly I've been painting them every night and I'm only halfway done.  that's JUST the survivors.  I did all the zombies in a single day, because I use a chromatic method which saves time.  I only bought 2 of the optional artist packs, and I counted something like almost 70 survivors!   I mean guys.... this is a 1-6 player game (or more if you have the expansion stuff, which can add a few more players).  You don't want to spend ALL night figuring out exactly who you want to be.  This was partially done because in the past they used to have Hero miniatures and Zombivor miniatures (A separate miniature for your character if they died and came back as a zombie).   This proved problematic, as every new hero now required 2 sculpts, casts, and miniatures.   People also don't always like to USE the zombivor miniature, so it was largely a wasted cost, and wasted plastic.  For Black Plague they got rid of that entire concept, and just gave each hero more health so it was harder for them to die.  This was a brilliant move, but it resulted in them being able to make TWICE as many survivors!  

 

If you just buy the core game, the wulfsburg expansion, and the hero pack, you'll have 15 heroes.   Maybe pick up an artist pack or two and you are going to have a TON of heroes to choose from.... Granted you might not have certain themed heroes like Monty Python... but to be honest those aren't always the best heroes anyhow.  I think the Artist Pack heroes are the best ones by a longshot. 

 

  Now onto zombies - There are a few optional buys that come in the form of new zombie types you can add to the game.  NPC zombies are kinda "meh" - they aren't a must-buy in my opinion.   Then you have the Crows.  They are cool.  CMON re-used the same crow molds from Zombicide season 3, so I already had some, and didn't want to buy any more, but I may eventually pick the Black Plague version up at some point.  Crows are scary and will add some difficulty to the game.  Then there are the amazingly awesome Deadeye Walker.  These are Zombies with Bows and Arrows.   They are nasty and amazing at the same time!  They add an incredible amount of difficulty to the game and I think they are the single best new addition to the game in years.   BTW all of this stuff is available at retail (or will be very soon, depending on retailer). 

 

Oh and Zombie Bosses!   There are some newnecromancer types that were kickstarter exclusive, but there are also some necromancers that come in the artist packs, so you can still get several of these.   And there is also an Abomination Pack, which is really awesome!   They are HUGE miniatures (well 2 of the 3 of them are), and they have very cool new abilities!   Also a retail purchase!  There WERE some abominations that were kickstarter exclusive, but the only one that's really cool is the AbominaRAT.   And the rat's best part is his sculpt.  He does look really cool. 

 

So in summary - there ARE some things you'll miss out on if you buy retails stuff - namely the themed heroes (Batman, William Wallace, Monthy Python, David Bowie, etc) and a few special bad guys (Joker necromancer, Abominarat, etc).  But the things that you miss out on don't ruin the game.   By FAR the best parts of black plague are also going to be available at retail.   Namely the Wulfsburg expansion, the Zombie Bosses Abomination Pack, and the Deadeye Walkers.   Also, I highly recommend and artist pack or two, because I think some of the best survivors I've ever seen are contained in those artist packs!   Plus some of them have necromancers in them as well!  (Or some heroes that are hybrid Hero/Necromancer). 

 

 

 

Oh and did I forget to mention that with the Massive Darkness crossover kit you'll have EVEN MORE survivors for Black Plague?!?!?!   Honestly guys over 100 survivors for the game is going to cross the point of insanity!

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

Did the guest artists just make the sculpts or did they pick the abilities and stuff too? Didn't see much info about them except the cartoonish pictures on the boxes.

Having never played either game I like the hit points in MD over the wound idea, but it's new to me so it's scary. I'm looking more forward to using the MD system than the BP system

[EastCoast 1,349]

So Crabbok, not to turn this into a Zombicide hijack, but one of the things that kept me away from the base game was

 

1. having several co-op dungeon crawls

2. having some rules that seemed silly or immersion breaking to me. Things like Zombivors and a nutty ranged targetting system.

 

How easy, or even possible is it to take the black plague rules and incorporate them into the base game?  Like I assume getting rid of the Zombivors will make the game harder, but the Fatty rules and ranged combat rules from Black Plague would offset that, correct?

 

Deep down my wallet is hoping you say, "No, you can't make Zombicide's rules better".

[NotBatman 706]

So Crabbok, not to turn this into a Zombicide hijack, but one of the things that kept me away from the base game was

 

1. having several co-op dungeon crawls

2. having some rules that seemed silly or immersion breaking to me. Things like Zombivors and a nutty ranged targetting system.

 

How easy, or even possible is it to take the black plague rules and incorporate them into the base game?  Like I assume getting rid of the Zombivors will make the game harder, but the Fatty rules and ranged combat rules from Black Plague would offset that, correct?

 

Deep down my wallet is hoping you say, "No, you can't make Zombicide's rules better".

 

 

Zombivors are TOTALLY drop-able - we tried them out a couple times, but they just seem silly, so we don't use them anymore. If someone dies early in the game, we let a new survivor show up from under a couch, or whatever, the next time someone can get a "search" action in. I would have preferred Zombified Survivors to be a bigger threat, rather than an over-powered reward for dying, but for now we just ignore them. No loss there, I think.

 

Firing into melee and ALWAYS hitting a Survivor first is easily the biggest complaint of "Modern" Zombicide. There are characters with skills (or equipment upgrades - scopes and hunting/sniper rifles) that allow firing into a zone with Survivors, so if you're patient (or lucky) there are ways to get around it within the rules as written.

 

That said, ton of people just house-rule it already, and I don't think it breaks anything to import Black Plague's rules for firing into a mixed zone.

 

Still waiting to get the rest of my Kickstarter for Black Plague, so so far we've only played a couple times with the base game. It's good. It's fun. It's a little more refined, maybe, than Modern Z-cide, but I'm not sure that one is dramatically better than the other. 

[Crabbok 9,869]

You want to use Black Plague's rules in the original Zombicide?   That would probably work.  

 

Still use WOUND cards, but just keep them to the side, and don't force the person to lose an inventory slot. Assume each hero has like 4 HP or something.   Fatty's would be another big change, but easily doable.  ranged combat rules actually make sense in either game.  

[Grayfax 991]

Zombivors are AWESOME!  They are so much tougher... and it's like it is their last gasp at saving the group.  Could play it either way, but there have been games that we wouldn't have made it without one or two Zombivors.  It is also a last gasp effort at not running out of zombies to place on the board... it's amazing what you will do to not have extra activations.

 

As for the change in ranged, I like it... I think, but I'll have to play with it to make sure.  It certainly is better than "you hit your friend first", and the "don't miss!" becomes poignant.  Looking forward to that aspect.  

[Crabbok 9,869]

You could still use zombivors even... but it's pointless to have a separate miniature for them.  

[Grayfax 991]

Unless you like to paint them!

[Grayfax 991]

Ratlings just in... pretty cool sculpts on some of them... and easy to modify with all the skaven bits...

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

I've gotten most of my British vote news from their comment section.

How much after fulfillment do expansions like these rats usually show up at retail?