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Smurfinablender

Star Wars: Rebels hate?

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I think people's opinion of Rebels is set before they start watching it.  The people that I hear complain about it seem to have their mind made up before they even watch.  They go through a couple episodes to confirm their suspicions.  There are a number of reasons why they seem to hate it:

  • Hate cartoon Star Wars
  • Made for kids
  • Disney making a terrible product

There seems to be some fans that are upset at any Star Wars movie/tv show that aren't as amazing as the original trilogy.  I think for some people, you will never recapture the original 3.  You just aren't in that part of your life anymore and the magic isn't the same.  For me, I'm just happy there IS Star Wars stuff.  I mean, I spent most of my life desperate for good Star Wars stuff.  Now, we are getting new tv shows and movies and I'm happy.  Sure, they might not be amazing, but they aren't bad.  That's something, at least.  I'll take the half full cup.  What's the point of hating?

 

I agree that the first few episodes of Rebels are not the best ones.  Every show takes a bit to find it's groove.  I feel that by the end of Season 1 that it's gotten fantastic.  I think Tarkin and the Inquisitor make capable villains that  really threaten the heroes.  I think Vader in Season 2 is really scary and effective.  They barely get away.  

 

Personally, I don't think anyone who likes The Clone Wars should dislike Rebels.  If so, they aren't giving it a fair shot.  I started watching Season 1 of Rebels, and then went back and watched TCW.  Season 1 was just as shaky as Rebels and there were some not-so-good episodes in that show.  If you liked TCW and don't like Rebels, I am thinking you decided before you started watching the show.

 

One thing that I like about Rebels is being able to see people like Tarkin.  He dies in Ep 4, so there is little to go with.  I liked him in TCW quite a bit.  He's great in Rebels.  Him blowing up the tower was so cool and very him.  It's things like this that I talked to my son about how would he recommend showing someone who has never seen anything Star Wars related and where to start.  He said people should watch it in chronological order (So, Ep 1-2, TCW, Ep 3, Rebels, then the rest).  I kind of agree with him because you get to see people like Tarkin and what they become....and then he dies with the Death Star. It means something more when you know who he is.  It means something more when Obi Wan dies.

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I like SW Rebels, I'm one of those people who love all things Star Wars. But if I were to gripe about anything about the series It would Be the Ghost. I just really don't care for the look of the ship. and my second gripe will be the heavy use of double bladed lightsabers...... every **** Inquisitor has one and they all do the same **** thing. that annoying self spin mode that even one Inquisitor exploited it to the next level of using it as a means of travel via HELICOPTER!....Dufuq I say...But other than that I enjoy the show. excited to see what happens in season three.

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I really wish there was a Sabine TIE Fighter in this game on the Rebel side with her Attack Shuttle Pilot Ability. It would be hilarious.

What are you talking about? There is! 

Screen%20Shot%202016-06-07%20at%208.11.1

Ok maybe I repainted it. In casual games I'll play with Sabine's pilot ability but TIE stat-line. Just for fun. 

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I saw about 8 or 9 episodes of the first season. I thought it was ok, but wasn't wowed enough to continue. I thought their ship was bizarrely overpowered. I found the stories a little tedious at points.

 

My main impression was being a little confused by the tone. At some points it seemed to be attempting to be more serious, actually having quite clever plot ideas and references, and then at others it just became very silly, with mustache twirling villains (really, the bad guy is going to kick one of his own stormtroopers down a pit just because he is pissed off at loosing?).

 

To be fair, I did find the training scene on top of the Ghost hilarious in its stupidity. "So, they are going to throw rocks at a guy while he is standing several metres above the ground on a precarious surface? Er... ok. Oh, wait, they are actually flying while doing this. And I though the other Star Wars Health and Safety violations were bad..."

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This sort of falls into the same logic as people complaining after the Rogue One trailer that only girls can now be leads of Star Wars movies.

How? I don't follow the logic behind this comparison..

 

 

People see two things in a row and suddenly assume it's the norm. After 6 movies where the main lead was a male, 2 back-to-back movies starring females had people assuming there would only be female leads in future movies (going as far as to make jokes about a female Han Solo) Now we have 2 waves of X-wing with heavy focus on Rebels and I'm hearing people saying "They won't pull ships unless they are from Rebels" Which doesn't make sense to me since it's basically gaining a new property to take ideas from and speeding to catch up. The idea that 2 waves of SWR-focused ships does not mean that X-wing will *only* take ships from the movies and cartoons. The comparison is that in both cases people see the very early signs of a pattern and knee-jerk that it will never change and is suddenly *the norm* 

 

 

Just started watching the show, almost done with the first season. A ton of things were just spoiled for me in this thread, but I'll live.

For being a kids' show, I find Rebels to be inoffensive at worst and enjoyable in its highs. The first episode was rough, and the forced cameos feel unnecessary, but the rest is Star Wars fun. Space combat, mercenaries fighting for what's right, goofy droids, and the Force.

It will be nice once September gets here and all of Disney's catalog is on Netflix.

 
As a huge Lando Calrissian fan, I have really enjoyed his cameos. Mostly because of all the forced cameos he makes sense and I love how much Kanan effing hates the guy. I also love how they keep you guessing if he's helping them or swindling them. 
Edited by Smurfinablender

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Watamote failed for me because of how predictably banal each interaction was going to be - she'd try to blend in, fail miserably, feel humiliated, and retreat to try again without learning any real lesson.

That was the point of Watamote though. Tomoko isn't supposed to really grow in any substantial form becasue you lose the appeal of the show if she becomes competent at things. 

Edited by McFoy

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Lmao at the people complaining about it being too kiddy, or a kids show, or too tweeny. Heck someone even complained about the commercials because it's on Disney xd. The show is not game of thrones, band of brothers, black hawk down, or breaking bad. It's a kids show who's target demographic is kids. Not 20, 30, 40, or even 50 year olds who decide to watch this show expecting it to be OK quality and cater to them. Also another thing sorry to burst your bubble but star wars isn't dark. The movies aren't dark, the shows aren't dark. I know people would love to have a movie with a game of thrones or band of brothers feel but that's just not going to happen.

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I know people would love to have a movie with a game of thrones or band of brothers feel but that's just not going to happen.

Actually, not so much.

I like Star Wars being what it is. I enjoy the simple escapist fantasy of it and watching it with my kids. I am an avid GoT fan but it is a totally different experience and I like to enjoy it for what it is too (i.e. without the kids ;)).

I like Chillie con carne and a I like chocolate cake but I am not going to try mixing the 2 on the same plate :P.

Edited by Karhedron

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I guess I came into Rebels a different way.  I was looking for something to spend an audiobook credit on and stumbled on "A New Dawn" by John Jackson Miller.  It tells a lot of background on Kanan and Hera that hasn't really come into the show yet and really gives a depth to their connection with each other.  Knowing their background before I started watching the first episode let me immediately know a lot about some of the "background" characters.  

 

I really liked that there was no need to divulge all of that, but they certainly kept the characters in place when embarking on Training Ezra.  Is it high cinema? No.  Does it fit into the mold of Space Opera? Oh, heck, yeah!  It doesn't seem to be too pretentious while having a lot of fun.  It also did it with modern style characters with diversity, which was a failing of old.  Sure, it's a kids show.  That doesn't stop me from watching the "kid's shows" I grew up on when I come across them sometimes.  

 

Overall, I think they balance the show well in keeping it kid-easy, but showing the universe at large and actually putting in more depth over time.  Whether Maul should have been there is questionable, but he had more character here than he ever had in a movie.  They also walk a tightrope in that they can't go too far, because we know what happens afterwards (and you can't kill Vader) but showing how the rebellion forms in small fragmented groups that sometimes come together.  I expect this to increase in time and still show the "small rpg group" action that makes it shine.  

 

I watch very few shows anymore on cable (and don't even have a subscription for this one), I just bought a few of the digital version and ended up buying both seasons.  Besides, it's fun to have on in the background when playing X-Wing against youngsters.

Edited by Grayfax

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People see two things in a row and suddenly assume it's the norm. After 6 movies where the main lead was a male, 2 back-to-back movies starring females had people assuming there would only be female leads in future movies (going as far as to make jokes about a female Han Solo) Now we have 2 waves of X-wing with heavy focus on Rebels and I'm hearing people saying "They won't pull ships unless they are from Rebels" Which doesn't make sense to me since it's basically gaining a new property to take ideas from and speeding to catch up. The idea that 2 waves of SWR-focused ships does not mean that X-wing will *only* take ships from the movies and cartoons. The comparison is that in both cases people see the very early signs of a pattern and knee-jerk that it will never change and is suddenly *the norm*

Not least because they've now basically used up all the ships from the films and Rebels, give or take a Kylobus.

Of COURSE Disney want to err in favour of producing models from their active/most popular properties. They'd be mad not to. But unless you think we're getting a couple of waves' worth of new ships out of Rogue One, they're going to have to get other new ships from somewhere, particularly for Scum.

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People see two things in a row and suddenly assume it's the norm. After 6 movies where the main lead was a male, 2 back-to-back movies starring females had people assuming there would only be female leads in future movies (going as far as to make jokes about a female Han Solo) Now we have 2 waves of X-wing with heavy focus on Rebels and I'm hearing people saying "They won't pull ships unless they are from Rebels" Which doesn't make sense to me since it's basically gaining a new property to take ideas from and speeding to catch up. The idea that 2 waves of SWR-focused ships does not mean that X-wing will *only* take ships from the movies and cartoons. The comparison is that in both cases people see the very early signs of a pattern and knee-jerk that it will never change and is suddenly *the norm*

 

 

That's of course assuming that the lead is a female TFA (I argue there are a couple at least). That also wrongly assumes there were 2 rebel releases.  There have in fact been 3: the Gozanti.

 

If you're talking about the films as well, we're up to 4 consecutive X-Wing releases. As I have said elsewhere, Vets notwithstanding, Imperials have had 3 TIE fighter chassis releases in a row (4 purchases if you get a core set).

 

A broader insight into the release schedule will indicate that, given precedent and the upcoming movies, future releases will likely be dominated by R1 and/or the new films (assuming rebels hasn't shown new ships.

To counter your point generally, lets go back to the ARC-170, a prequel ship therefore unlikely to be have been made had it not featured for the briefest of cameos in... You guessed it: Rebels.

Edited by Xerandar

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I have been reading post and a conclusion came to me that no one has mentioned persay. First off I don't care for the rebels show, I don't like the ship models from it outside The Inquisitor and Gozanti, but I don't have issues with anyone liking it either or their place in the Xwing mini game. That all being said here is my point.

I think people complaining about the show being kiddy are pulling on a fear of Xwing turning to Pokemon. I think many are not wanting a clearly directed at young kids show getting popular here because they don't want to go to game night and have it look like they walked into Chucky Cheese.

I totally get that mentality and fear, I am a family man myself have a young daughter and 4 step-kids but if I wanted to play Xwing with children I would play with my own. I really feel this kids show hate is spawning from this feeling. What do you all think? I see it as people hating the syptom and not the real issue.

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 I know people would love to have a movie with a game of thrones or band of brothers feel but that's just not going to happen.

 

Actually, before Lucas Arts was sold, they were in discussions with HBO for doing an adult show for Star Wars.  It was going to be more on the side of Scum from what I was reading.  It didn't get past that, though.  Too bad!  Grown up Star Wars fans would've loved it.

 

I guess I came into Rebels a different way.  I was looking for something to spend an audiobook credit on and stumbled on "A New Dawn" by John Jackson Miller.  It tells a lot of background on Kanan and Hera that hasn't really come into the show yet and really gives a depth to their connection with each other.  Knowing their background before I started watching the first episode let me immediately know a lot about some of the "background" characters.  

 

...

 

I watch very few shows anymore on cable (and don't even have a subscription for this one), I just bought a few of the digital version and ended up buying both seasons.  Besides, it's fun to have on in the background when playing X-Wing against youngsters.

 

I really liked that audio book, too.  OK...wasn't amazing, but I really enjoyed it.  Gave good background for the tv show.  My son liked it, too.  

 

I've seen episodes of Rebels on YouTube now and again.  Not sure on the legality of all that, but I've been meaning to go back and watch the one with the Shadow Caster again.

 

 

I think people complaining about the show being kiddy are pulling on a fear of Xwing turning to Pokemon. I think many are not wanting a clearly directed at young kids show getting popular here because they don't want to go to game night and have it look like they walked into Chucky Cheese.

I totally get that mentality and fear, I am a family man myself have a young daughter and 4 step-kids but if I wanted to play Xwing with children I would play with my own. I really feel this kids show hate is spawning from this feeling. What do you all think? I see it as people hating the syptom and not the real issue.

 

Well....our game night goes pretty late.  We have had the occasional kid show up for X-wing night, but they can't stay long.  Our store is open until midnight, so people do stay late.  I never take my son because of how late I stay out.  I don't see that as a problem.

 

If it's a problem with Star Wars turning into a kiddy thing...what about The Clone Wars?  It's really close to that show and I don't see the hate for that.  Well, I see people hating the ARC-170 being in the game because they feel it's a Clone Wars ship, even though all the pilots are Civil War and it's clearly re-purposed.  

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Of COURSE Disney want to err in favour of producing models from their active/most popular properties.

You are assuming Disney has any say over what FFG produce. I am pretty FFG are making what they think will sell. As the license holders, they are free to produce what they want with the IP. Now granted Disney may veto stuff if they really want to but I doubt it is in their commercial interests to do so. As long as FFG keep paying their royalties and do not violate the IP, The House of Mouse is probably content to let them get on with the job rather than trying to micromanage them.

I strongly suspect FFG are free to choose whichever ships they think will be popular and fun to use rather than having their choices dictated by Disney.

Based on the discussions around the Raider, it seems that FFG get to chose what to do with Disney simply required to approve their work. If FFG had felt so inclined, they probably could have used one of the existing Imperial Customs vessels for their first Epic Empire ship but they wanted something that resembled the iconic Star Destroyer albeit on a smaller scale, hence the Raider. As the IP owners, Disney had to approve the ship before they could go ahead but I doubt Disney actually prompted or interfered with the design process as that is simply not the way these things are usually done.

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I actually had a discussion with a guy about Sabine's armor when the preview with her came out. Considering she focuses on being quick and carrying a lot of bombs the bare minimum armor makes sense. I also don't mind the color of her armor. It shows that not all mandalorians are purely warriors (also the new canons mandalorians are more like the original legends version, before they become Jedi haters pretty much). Also, Clone Wars went through the same growing pains Rebels has.

Stop joking, she is more dressed for roller derby than blaster pistol fights.

Assuming her armor's beskar it pairs well her quick combat style.

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I guess I came into Rebels a different way.  I was looking for something to spend an audiobook credit on and stumbled on "A New Dawn" by John Jackson Miller.  It tells a lot of background on Kanan and Hera that hasn't really come into the show yet and really gives a depth to their connection with each other.  Knowing their background before I started watching the first episode let me immediately know a lot about some of the "background" characters.  

 

I really liked that there was no need to divulge all of that, but they certainly kept the characters in place when embarking on Training Ezra.  Is it high cinema? No.  Does it fit into the mold of Space Opera? Oh, heck, yeah!  It doesn't seem to be too pretentious while having a lot of fun.  It also did it with modern style characters with diversity, which was a failing of old.  Sure, it's a kids show.  That doesn't stop me from watching the "kid's shows" I grew up on when I come across them sometimes.  

 

Overall, I think they balance the show well in keeping it kid-easy, but showing the universe at large and actually putting in more depth over time.  Whether Maul should have been there is questionable, but he had more character here than he ever had in a movie.  They also walk a tightrope in that they can't go too far, because we know what happens afterwards (and you can't kill Vader) but showing how the rebellion forms in small fragmented groups that sometimes come together.  I expect this to increase in time and still show the "small rpg group" action that makes it shine.  

 

I watch very few shows anymore on cable (and don't even have a subscription for this one), I just bought a few of the digital version and ended up buying both seasons.  Besides, it's fun to have on in the background when playing X-Wing against youngsters.

 

 

I was the opposite, I recently listened to "A New Dawn" after season 2 ended and I needed more. (I also quickly bought the TPB of Kanan) A New Dawn was a nice introduction but I'm not particularly fond of JJM's version of Kanan. Sure it's a younger, cockier Kanan, but he was borderline unlikeable at times. Also one of my favorite things about Hera is how she's not just another in the long line of Twi'lek strippers. I love Twi'leks but I get really bored with some of the unimaginitive places they are. The women must be dancers and the men must be Bib-fortuna style untrustworthy scoundrals. The Clone Wars and now Rebels have done an amazing job in fully fleshing out the Twi'lek race/species. Then we get JJM's book where Kanan mentions how much he wants to bone Hera every 3 pages lol. 

That being said I knew going into it that it was released before the show and with a more adult aspect so I was able to ignore some of the faults to enjoy it. I'm in the Middle of Aftermath right now and it's making me a lot more forgiving of A New Dawn because Aftermath is a huge mess of a book so far. We've gotta get quality authors up to Claudia Gray's level for more of these new-canon books. I'll probably read another JJM book though, A New Dawn wasn't my favorite but it interested me enough to give JJM another chance. 

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I'm not saying it's reality but perceived reality. I have seen several fathers bring their kids to game night and usually one of 2 things happen. Either the kids play each other at a kiddy table deal or the adults pass them around for light fun games where you get to correct a young mind that has fallen somewhere on a focus scale outside of adulthood. It is what it is but I can understand college kids with no children not wanting to play that way. There is no fun in stomping an 8-year-old and no honor in letting them win.

Love the show btw Chadwick, a thank you to you and the guys for casual discusion it was desperately needed.

Edited by LordFajubi

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You are assuming Disney has any say over what FFG produce. I am pretty FFG are making what they think will sell. As the license holders, they are free to produce what they want with the IP. Now granted Disney may veto stuff if they really want to but I doubt it is in their commercial interests to do so. As long as FFG keep paying their royalties and do not violate the IP, The House of Mouse is probably content to let them get on with the job rather than trying to micromanage them.

I strongly suspect FFG are free to choose whichever ships they think will be popular and fun to use rather than having their choices dictated by Disney.

 

 

I get the impression that Lucas Arts does apply some pressure as to what they release.  I look at the Ep 7 ships and with the recent Heroes of the Resistance pack.  Lucas knows it's under Disney and Lucas wants to work synergy with the new stuff they are pushing, so I am under the impression that they lean on FFG some.  Maybe it's all them working together to come up with stuff as opposed to pressure, per say.  

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People see two things in a row and suddenly assume it's the norm. After 6 movies where the main lead was a male, 2 back-to-back movies starring females had people assuming there would only be female leads in future movies (going as far as to make jokes about a female Han Solo) Now we have 2 waves of X-wing with heavy focus on Rebels and I'm hearing people saying "They won't pull ships unless they are from Rebels" Which doesn't make sense to me since it's basically gaining a new property to take ideas from and speeding to catch up. The idea that 2 waves of SWR-focused ships does not mean that X-wing will *only* take ships from the movies and cartoons. The comparison is that in both cases people see the very early signs of a pattern and knee-jerk that it will never change and is suddenly *the norm*

Not least because they've now basically used up all the ships from the films and Rebels, give or take a Kylobus.
În before Scum gets a TIE with the front solar panels missing :)

EDIT: on a more serious note,the Fang appeared in the show early this year IIRC. This means the X-wing model was in work long before that, which in turns opens the possibility FFG is already working on stuff that will appear in Rebels Season 3.

Edited by LordBlades

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Watamote failed for me because of how predictably banal each interaction was going to be - she'd try to blend in, fail miserably, feel humiliated, and retreat to try again without learning any real lesson.

That was the point of Watamote though. Tomoki isn't supposed to really grow in any substantial form becasue you lose the appeal of the show if she becomes competent at things. 

 

Oh, I get it, but I dislike it BECAUSE I got the joke and found it boring. It's like how I detest Arrested Development - I get the meta-joke that is their family being filled with unlikeable people, I'd just rather see them all drowned than watch another episode where they move through life, learn nothing, and are genuinely annoying. In 14 episodes, only the Banana Stand joke actually got a laugh from me.

 

 

So I've been rewatching The Clone Wars and man - the first FOUR seasons are filled with bad, boring episodes. I'd say about half of them are actually watchable and interesting, and the other half... Well, like the Season 4 arc about the 4-armed Jedi general taking over Skywalker's unit. The two middle episodes are completely pointless and not worth watching at all because it's such a highly predictable story. It should have driven straight to the point of the general going bad because he's planning to defect, not dragged it out over 80 minutes. Some arcs are watchable from beginning to end, even if they're kind of predictable - the one where Ahsoka gets kidnapped by sport hunters? Awesome.

 

That is one thing about SWR that they've learned: Not to drag out stories. There are filler episodes, and episodes that seem like filler until they come back later (Zeb & Ezra's stolen TIE?), but nothing like "Oh, we're fighting on Kamino. For three episodes. Where the only important thing that happens is that Ahsoka makes a friend her age." It's a much... tighter story.

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I've only watched the Pilot, which was fun I guess, but not enough to make me invest... It gave me too much a vibe of Firefly with Lightsabers merged with Blake's 7. Also, assuming they stick to cannon, at some point Kanaan and Ezra will have to die.

A-wings and B-Wings? What the hell?

 

You don't get it.

This is Canon.

They don't need to "Stick" to it.

They are it.

 

You must un-learn what you have learned.

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I've only watched the Pilot, which was fun I guess, but not enough to make me invest... It gave me too much a vibe of Firefly with Lightsabers merged with Blake's 7. Also, assuming they stick to cannon, at some point Kanaan and Ezra will have to die.

A-wings and B-Wings? What the hell?

 

You don't get it.

This is Canon.

They don't need to "Stick" to it.

They are it.

 

You must un-learn what you have learned.

You can't override the Holy trinity :P

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The Holy Trinity, where the characters who make comments about the Jedi being extinct or Luke being the last one are folks known to bend the truth or outright lie whenever they want/need to?

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You are assuming Disney has any say over what FFG produce. I am pretty FFG are making what they think will sell. As the license holders, they are free to produce what they want with the IP. Now granted Disney may veto stuff if they really want to but I doubt it is in their commercial interests to do so. As long as FFG keep paying their royalties and do not violate the IP, The House of Mouse is probably content to let them get on with the job rather than trying to micromanage them.

I strongly suspect FFG are free to choose whichever ships they think will be popular and fun to use rather than having their choices dictated by Disney.

 

I get the impression that Lucas Arts does apply some pressure as to what they release.  I look at the Ep 7 ships and with the recent Heroes of the Resistance pack.  Lucas knows it's under Disney and Lucas wants to work synergy with the new stuff they are pushing, so I am under the impression that they lean on FFG some.  Maybe it's all them working together to come up with stuff as opposed to pressure, per say.

Also: precisely which corporation is pushing the obvious decision to focus primarily on the ships that have appeared on-screen isn't exactly relevant to my overall point that a) well, of course that's what they're doing they'd be crazy to do anything else and b) that in no way means "they'll never use a ship unless it's in Rebels", not least because there aren't enough new ships in Rebels to keep FFG/Disney paddling their money-canoes*.

* - I'm thinking canoes both made of and designed for the transportation of money.

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