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Tvboy

"While attacking" Effects Used After Surges are Spent

10 posts in this topic

As I understand it, "While attacking" abilities can be used anytime during an attack. Could I use Force Illusion after Surges have been spent, but before damage is resolved to make an opponent's attack miss?

For example, a stormtrooper is attacking Diala from 5 spaces away in her LoS. He rolls 5 accuracy, 3 dmg and a surge and Diala rolls and rerolls a blank. Since the stormtrooper has natural range, he chooses to spend the surge on more damage. Can Diala use Force Illusion to become hidden after this point to make the attack miss, or does she need to use it before surges are spent and thus would still take 3 damage?

Force Illusion - Use while a hostile figure in your line of sight is attacking. The defender becomes Hidden.

Edit - nvm, found the answer to my question in the RRG; check accuracy step does indeed come directly after the spend surges step.

Edited by Tvboy

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You could use it after step 5 (spend surges), but then the Hidden condition would not reduce the required accuracy, because it needs to happen during step 4: apply modifiers.

 

4. Apply Modifiers: If players have any effects that gain or
   remove icons or Accuracy, they are applied at this time. This
   includes spending evade (evade) results to remove surge results.
 

Edited by a1bert

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Ah, so then I can't reduce the attacker's accuracy before they choose what to spend their surges on? That's a bummer.

 

You can't reduce it after they spent their surges. You can use that ability to it's full effect just after the attack has been declared.

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Ah, so then I can't reduce the attacker's accuracy before they choose what to spend their surges on? That's a bummer.

 

You can't reduce it after they spent their surges. You can use that ability to it's full effect just after the attack has been declared.

Yes, but that means that they get to know how much accuracy they need before they choose what surge abilities to use, which means that being hidden might only reduce 1-2 damage instead of missing altogether. Definitely am important distinction when evaluating the card.

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On 8.6.2016 at 9:17 PM, Tvboy said:

 

On 7.6.2016 at 10:59 AM, jacenat said:

 

On 6.6.2016 at 7:53 PM, Tvboy said:

Ah, so then I can't reduce the attacker's accuracy before they choose what to spend their surges on? That's a bummer.

 

You can't reduce it after they spent their surges. You can use that ability to it's full effect just after the attack has been declared.

Yes, but that means that they get to know how much accuracy they need before they choose what surge abilities to use, which means that being hidden might only reduce 1-2 damage instead of missing altogether. Definitely am important distinction when evaluating the card.

 

 

Same thing goes for the similar effect of Shadow Armor really. It's not meant for you to evade an attack, it's meant to give you Hidden (in Force Illusion's case). And also, not all enemies have bonus range as a surge ability. For them, you can make them miss with Force Illusion.

Edited by jacenat
a1bert likes this

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You could use it after step 5 (spend surges), but then the Hidden condition would not reduce the required accuracy, because it needs to happen during step 4: apply modifiers.

 

4. Apply Modifiers: If players have any effects that gain or

   remove icons or Accuracy, they are applied at this time. This

   includes spending evade (evade) results to remove surge results.

 

 

I don't think you'd be able to play it after- 

RRG, Attacks- Special Situations Regarding Attacks:

Any ability that is resolved “while attacking” or “while defending” can be used at any point during the attack with the following exceptions:

- An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack.

- An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used during step 3 of the attack.

- An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only be used during step 4 of the attack.

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Note that Force Illusion itself does not modify any results (Hidden is the one that removes accuracy), so to me it is perfercly fine to play Force Illusion at any step during the attack. Of course the sensible time is during step 4 so that you can get the benefits from the Hidden condition. (i.e. the Hidden condition can only be used during step 4 of the attack, so if you don't have it yet during that step, you can't use it later in the same attack.)

Edited by a1bert

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Same thing goes for the similar effect of Shadow Armor really. It's not meant for you to evade an attack, it's meant to give you Hidden (in Force Illusion's case). And also, not all enemies have bonus range as a surge ability. For them, you can make them miss with Force Illusion.

Yeah, I'm not arguing how the card should work, I'm saying it's not quite as good as I was hoping. Obviously the card was meant to make you hidden, it says that right on the card, so thanks for pointing that out.

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On 6/7/2016 at 1:59 AM, jacenat said:

 

You can't reduce it after they spent their surges. You can use that ability to it's full effect just after the attack has been declared.

I might be missing something here, but it seems like you should never use Force Illusion right after the attack is declared. Instead, it would be best to use Force Illusion towards the end of Step 3 (rerolls) of the Attack so the defender has the most information available to them. IIUC, the Hidden condition would take effect before Step 4 (apply modifiers), and so the -2 accuracy will affect the attack.

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