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MalanTai

Tactics: The opening against Scouts

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So, I'm going to fly in a rather big tournament, and it is very likely lots of U-boats will be there. And I need your advices to work my engagement. My list consists in 2 YV and 1 U-boat, so I really need to avoid the range 3 engagement. I usually set up in the right corner, with my YVs facing the opponent and my scout next to them, facing the right side of the table.

I know about the rule of 11, and know my exact moves when the U-boats deploy in front of me. But in the case they deploy in the opposite corner, what would be your asteroid placement, and your moves?

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taking 1-2 shots from their ordnance early on is sortof unavoidable.u should be able to survive two shots on a lead YV and then get shots into them at close range. u need to block their lead u-boat i think and then focus on the one behind it. u-boat players will often try to stagger their ships using the first one to fire then block while the ones behind will pound the damage ships being blocked. asteroids can be ur friend if you can manage the range of engagement and limit the number of u-boats that r firing on you early on. u-boats are surprisingly effective in close with their 360 turret as its 3 dice to the face each turn.

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2 YV's and a  U Boat? I like the list ;) 

 

The approach is everything against alpha strike lists. Always consider forcing them to split their fire via unpredictable play, good asteroid placement and such. Be creative!

 

Feel free to PM to discuss more!

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The squad I main is Brobots.

Against U-Boats I fortress until it's advantageous for me to engage. You face both Brobots forward with their sides flush, and if they do hard 1 turns at each other they don't move at all.

So if U-Boats set up, I'd pick whatever side forced them to come through more asteroids/travel more distance to me. Then I'd see what they did and go from there.

With your higher PS and boost on a large base, you can reactively force engagements that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Or you can boost into range 1. They won't be able to fire torpedoes, and next turn their sloops will be blocked, so you could sloop behind them and shrug off their useless 2 dice turrets.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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The squad I main is Brobots.

Against U-Boats I fortress until it's advantageous for me to engage. You face both Brobots forward with their sides flush, and if they do hard 1 turns at each other they don't bump.

So if U-Boats set up, I'd pick whatever side forced them to come through more asteroids/travel more distance to me. Then I'd see what they did and go from there.

With your higher PS and boost on a large base, you can reactively force engagements that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Or you can boost into range 1. They won't be able to fire torpedoes, and next turn their sloops will be blocked, so you could sloop behind them and shrug off their useless 2 dice turrets.

 

Fair advice, but I would hazard a guess that the YV's are going to be PS2.

 

Though they may have engine, my personal feeling and experience tells me that engine is too costly to place in this list due to the fact that you're going to want crew like Zuckuss, K4, Boba Fett, 4-LOM and such whilst also taking a plasma/proton torp boat. We'll need to know more!

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If you put engine upgrade on one of your YV's, I'd say its very easy to win.  If not, then, well, why didn't you put engine on one of the YV's? :P

 

Basically, you boost a big YV to block one (maybe 2 if your opponent doesn't expect it).  Think a turn ahead here though!  MAKE sure one of your other ships is set to block at least one following turn white 2-sloop and/or blocking another u-boat's only moves that allow it to shoot a torp next turn.  Thanks to the YV's arc, all of your ships shoot into 1 enemy.  Max 2 enemies get to shoot torps into one of yours, so after the first turn, nothing is likely to be dead.  Next turn, you will get a MUCH more favourable trade of damage because you were thinking one turn ahead and blocked the necessary moves to deny torpedo shot(s).  You should be ahead significantly on the damage race after this turn, so don't lose it and the game is yours!

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If you put engine upgrade on one of your YV's, I'd say its very easy to win.  If not, then, well, why didn't you put engine on one of the YV's? :P

 

I've played dual YV's and a U to some relative success and I've found action economy upgrades to be the way to go. Dengar/K4 along with other low cost crew upgrades make the YV an extremely consistent hitter. Not saying I don't see the merit in Engine Upgrade but I do think that with the right approach engine upgrade is not necessary; I can generally 1 round a torp boat with my build and it's all over from there!

 

You're absolutely right though, you need to be thinking 1 more turn ahead than your opponent and that's what's going to get you ahead. Not your build!

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I've been running a Scout/Kavil/Palob list and I will admit, running a cheap Palob can muck up a U boat alpha strike. Run it in front of your other two ships. Move 1 try to skirt range 3. Move 2, 4 straight in and bump a scout. That locks down that scout from firing on him normally granting Palob a 2nd turn. Steal a focus token shutting down a 2nd scout. Have your other ships pound one. On the second turn, stay engaged at close range and maybe even get behind them. Keep stealing tokens from the ship most likely to shoot until the opponent realizes you can't steal target locks. Once you get to that point, you've neutered the agromech economy and locked them into picking 1 target, which if played well, might not be the one in his arc.

 

Also, Torkil Mux is cheaper, and in a mirror match can help crush a boat before it can shoot.

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How come no one is really talking about his question?  What's the best way to approach the U-boats and set up asteroids?  

 

For Asteroids, I'd think a number of big guys in the middle to make it hard to pass through.  Not clumped too close together, but spread some to just make it difficult for more than one to pass through.

 

Have you tried deploying in the middle and then going for one side?  If you get the asteroids heavy on one side middle, you might be able to prevent him from making it easy to come at you with all at once.  How do U-boats normally deploy?  In one corner?  Spread out?  

 

The trick is to try to get in range of not all at once.  A lot depends on how you fly and how they fly.  

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When it comes to rocks, I take the big ones. Put two of them in each of your side's corners, the other somewhere in the middle. Then you can use them as cover while you move slowly into the engagement. Make sure you're taking fire through obstacles and it does a lot to take the edge off of those torpedoes.

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If you put engine upgrade on one of your YV's, I'd say its very easy to win.  If not, then, well, why didn't you put engine on one of the YV's? :P

 

I've played dual YV's and a U to some relative success and I've found action economy upgrades to be the way to go. Dengar/K4 along with other low cost crew upgrades make the YV an extremely consistent hitter. Not saying I don't see the merit in Engine Upgrade but I do think that with the right approach engine upgrade is not necessary; I can generally 1 round a torp boat with my build and it's all over from there!

 

You're absolutely right though, you need to be thinking 1 more turn ahead than your opponent and that's what's going to get you ahead. Not your build!

 

Well honestly, if you can use a PS 2 YV-666 to block a PS 3 jumpmaster in the opening turn of shooting, then the jumpmaster player has made an error (which you capitalized on sure, but the onus is on the jumpmaster player to not let that happen).  So while its certainly possible to get a good opening using a pair of YV's with no engine, you are taking a risk in a way, because a good u-boat player should be able to easily avoid any blocks and let fly with three torpedoes.  WITH engine though, you gaurantee one block for sure.  There's suddenly nothing the u-boat player can do to stop it, no matter how good he is (and like I said, if he's not very good, you might even get 2 blocks!).

 

Example list:

Scout w/ deadeye, plasma torps, R4 agromech & GC = 31

Slaver w/ 4-LOM & zuckuss = 31

Slaver w/ dengar + engine = 36

98

 

The last two points should be spent on something good, but you have some different options: extra munis on the scout, bossk/tactician or a pair of inertial dampeners are all good uses.

 

For asteroids, you want one asteroid middle-ish, but on the opponent's side of the board, fairly deep to limit lateral movement on his side of the board.  The other two that you place should be on your side of the board, spaced according to your comfort level of navigating your large-based ships around them (the more confident you are, the closer you can place them).  What you are looking for are possible lanes the u-boats might use and then you want to break those up a bit and possibly deny that left 2 s-loop they love so much.  Difficult to explain without diagrams, honestly.  

 

Just remember that you have the superior jousting list, and u-boats ideally want to deploy in their right corner (to maximize their left 2 s-loop options).  So you deploy in your left side to dare him into the joust (engine gives you the upper hand if he does).  Keep your engine YV on the outer most side so he can block with a bank boost towards the middle so that he keeps himself in good position for future turns.

Edited by blade_mercurial

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What's the standard U-boat setup?  Is it all in one corner?  Or do they spread out?  I admit to not having ever played them.  

Their ideal set up is in the owning player's right hand corner.  Not usually spread out, but they can certainly work with one in the middle of the board (depending on asteroid placement/enemy ship placement).

 

Typically, they deploy either laterally (facing parallel to their board edge) and then hard turn or bank in (possibly with barrel rolls to slow or accelerate their advance as needed).  Or they just deploy classically, 3 in a line all facing opposing board edge (if there is an asteroid in that corner, one deploys to the left of it).  They can even deploy with a mix: some facing forward, some rotated 90 degrees.  

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Often the advice given is too Fuzzy: Tactics per Opponent's List, Tactics specific to Opponent's Playstyle (known/unknown), even Tactics specific to Counter-Tactics(YourList).

 

Universally Sound Advice: Make them turn often!

Edited by lazycomet

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I haven't played against them either

Tried an ace vs uBoats thread yesterday but it failed lol

I assume a uBoats player will want to set up on their right side

They favor going left for the green maneuvers and white s loop

I been flying aces and Palpatine and heard they do well against uBoats but I think it would be a tough fight.

I figuredno matter what your flying asteroids will be your friend.

Put them in the middle opponent side and try get tight lanes and get them to break up.

One thing about flying multiple big ships is a lot of times only 1-2 get to shoot while the other is doing something else.

If you get focus fired on you'll be in trouble

I'm going to start flying them just to learn them. Been playing on vassal with the hopes I'll run into them, but Nothing yet.

So my apologies to my next opponent as I'll likely be flying tripple uBoats

Unless that is, they are

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The squad I main is Brobots.

Against U-Boats I fortress until it's advantageous for me to engage. You face both Brobots forward with their sides flush, and if they do hard 1 turns at each other they don't bump.

So if U-Boats set up, I'd pick whatever side forced them to come through more asteroids/travel more distance to me. Then I'd see what they did and go from there.

With your higher PS and boost on a large base, you can reactively force engagements that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Or you can boost into range 1. They won't be able to fire torpedoes, and next turn their sloops will be blocked, so you could sloop behind them and shrug off their useless 2 dice turrets.

pure EVIL... I kinda like it.

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Move slowly, hug the edge early on and make them come to you.  I like closing quickly once they get to you but until then, giving them less room to maneuver once you engage is always helpful.

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