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ozmodon

Gunboat nevermore

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Yeah that TIE Aggressor is nice. I dunno, I remember someone posted the new TIE concept, and it looked amazing, made the TIE/FO look well... too safe is a good one. I do like the T-70 with the way the S-foils work, and I am dreaming of a T-80 or 85 which (and I talked with JBR7 about this too) is basically a forward swept wing X-wing, Kinda like a cross between the conquest X-30 crossed with an x-wing, complete with the slightly shorter hull. To me that would be gorgeous. Now, I will say the SF is a cool concept, but a special forces fighter needs to do more than carry two pilots. It needs versatility.

 

The ability to use a hyperdrive, mount atmospheric operations equally to in space, have good range and land just about anywhere, at a decent cost. The ability to excel at assault, recon, escort and in direst need even space superiority.

 

The Empire could do with a ship like that. Can anyone name one?

Why that sounds suspiciously mary sue (gary stu, xary xue) like. Slap on super nova proof shields and you've just described the sun crusher.

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Yeah that TIE Aggressor is nice. I dunno, I remember someone posted the new TIE concept, and it looked amazing, made the TIE/FO look well... too safe is a good one. I do like the T-70 with the way the S-foils work, and I am dreaming of a T-80 or 85 which (and I talked with JBR7 about this too) is basically a forward swept wing X-wing, Kinda like a cross between the conquest X-30 crossed with an x-wing, complete with the slightly shorter hull. To me that would be gorgeous. Now, I will say the SF is a cool concept, but a special forces fighter needs to do more than carry two pilots. It needs versatility.

 

The ability to use a hyperdrive, mount atmospheric operations equally to in space, have good range and land just about anywhere, at a decent cost. The ability to excel at assault, recon, escort and in direst need even space superiority.

 

The Empire could do with a ship like that. Can anyone name one?

Why that sounds suspiciously mary sue (gary stu, xary xue) like. Slap on super nova proof shields and you've just described the sun crusher.

 

 

Sounds closer to an X-Wing, to me, though I think I know what he's getting at.

 

Anyway, which book was the Sun Crusher in?  I only ever remember seeing it in The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.  Was it capable of acting in a space superiority role?

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Yeah that TIE Aggressor is nice. I dunno, I remember someone posted the new TIE concept, and it looked amazing, made the TIE/FO look well... too safe is a good one. I do like the T-70 with the way the S-foils work, and I am dreaming of a T-80 or 85 which (and I talked with JBR7 about this too) is basically a forward swept wing X-wing, Kinda like a cross between the conquest X-30 crossed with an x-wing, complete with the slightly shorter hull. To me that would be gorgeous. Now, I will say the SF is a cool concept, but a special forces fighter needs to do more than carry two pilots. It needs versatility.

 

The ability to use a hyperdrive, mount atmospheric operations equally to in space, have good range and land just about anywhere, at a decent cost. The ability to excel at assault, recon, escort and in direst need even space superiority.

 

The Empire could do with a ship like that. Can anyone name one?

Why that sounds suspiciously mary sue (gary stu, xary xue) like. Slap on super nova proof shields and you've just described the sun crusher.

 

 

Sounds closer to an X-Wing, to me, though I think I know what he's getting at.

 

Anyway, which book was the Sun Crusher in?  I only ever remember seeing it in The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.  Was it capable of acting in a space superiority role?

 

Nearly indestructible, 5 laser cannons controlled by gunners, and a tractor beam. Seems pretty solid.

 

It's from the Jedi Academy series.

Edited by McFoy

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Wave Nine is MEH in favor of some old-ass ship from the 90's that you have formed a cult around

There's a huge difference between a ship with the weight and developmental planing of decades behind it

 

 

I think that's adding a little bit too much credit. The gunboat is 20 years old, not 20 years of development. For all you know, people spent more time thinking about the Shadow Caster than they did about the gunboat. Just because it's been around longer, does not mean it is better.

 

Okay, I'll give you that, maybe the Star Trek design team did put a lot of thought into the Shadow Caster.

 

 

Ooh, of course, it looks like a Star Trek ship. The gunboat, however, is one of the finest pieces of design there is. Nothing like a brick with wings. 

 

Regardless, to say the gunboat has had lots of design time and effort put into it is speculation at best.

 

 

I think you mean Firefly. In case you think it's a coincidence, who is Ketsu Onyo's voice actress? ;)

 

zoe-gina-torres-firefly-comic-con-quotes

 

 

The hot red-bone... just call it like it is. And NO she is not just a black-chick. IMO she was the best part of the show after Mel.

:)

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I just want moar ships.

 

The FO and SF were lazy design choices by lucasfilm though, even if they play well on the board...

 

I would disagree. Maybe lazy, but certainly with good reason. People want Star Wars. That means X-Wings and Tie Fighters. Now X-Wings are inherently awesome (and I still prefer the battered look of the T-65s) and ties are... well... a little dull. Especially with the fact that most deviations look like all the other ties. But that fits with the idea of the Empire - all uniform and no personality allowed - all big cogs in a machine. If you read the Imperial Handbook, it makes a point that no-one is unique or special. I read somewhere that a Tie Pilot is never assigned to the same ship so they can't get any attachment to it.

 

The Rebels and scum on the other hand lend themselves to different ships, cobbling together what they can manage and encouraging pilots to personalise their craft.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is I completely understand the desire for some variation from the imperials - all the ships worth flying are generally ties. But I also understand why the movies went with Tie Fighters.

So sootnir fel paints his kills on all his TIE interceptors just so some alpha squadron pilot can fly it next time.... XD (referencing the alt art card.).

I would expect ace imperial pilots to be exceptions to the norm, but a fair point.

 

Well we all know whoever takes Vaders X1 for a joyride is getting force choked when they return, so maybe the ace pilots do get to keep their ships....

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On a slightly tangential note, this raises a big mystery of the new canon, though I admit I have not gone that much into it.If the new order is just the latest in the line of tropes of hidden Sith Empires coming back for vengeance, why aren't their fighters much better? They've had 30 years to develop in secret, presumably while studying Republic patterns. SWTOR covers this pretty well but it's not really explained in new canon.

Having watched TFA a few times, I got the impression the first order was just a rebranded Imperial remnant. Surviving members of the Empire were forced back through space by the rebellion and then the Republic. They consolidated power in a star system and formed their own territory, directly next door to the republic. They push in and fight every now and then, but the republic refuses to publicly fight back for fear of escalation.The resistance is an offshoot who actuvely fight against the FO, taciturnly protected and supported by the republic, but not officially, so the republic has deniability.
If I remember my forum rumors right than the EU explains that the first order is a republic supported organisation, supported by the centralist of the about half the republic's senate. The other half are basically separatists who wants more independence for their systems. TFA is basically TPM, they just don't show the political crap and give is bob instead of Darth as main antagonist.

A fair cop but 30 years of starfighter stagnation is pretty shocking, especially considering that they had the resources to develop something huge. I was frankly expecting most of the FO ships to be like the TIE sf

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Wave Nine is MEH in favor of some old-ass ship from the 90's that you have formed a cult around

There's a huge difference between a ship with the weight and developmental planing of decades behind it

 

 

I think that's adding a little bit too much credit. The gunboat is 20 years old, not 20 years of development. For all you know, people spent more time thinking about the Shadow Caster than they did about the gunboat. Just because it's been around longer, does not mean it is better.

 

Okay, I'll give you that, maybe the Star Trek design team did put a lot of thought into the Shadow Caster.

 

 

Ooh, of course, it looks like a Star Trek ship. The gunboat, however, is one of the finest pieces of design there is. Nothing like a brick with wings. 

 

Regardless, to say the gunboat has had lots of design time and effort put into it is speculation at best.

 

 

I think you mean Firefly. In case you think it's a coincidence, who is Ketsu Onyo's voice actress? ;)

 

zoe-gina-torres-firefly-comic-con-quotes

 

 

The hot red-bone... just call it like it is. And NO she is not just a black-chick. IMO she was the best part of the show after Mel.

:)

 

 

Surprisingly, I discover she is also a Latina (Cuban parents). I honestly have no favourites among the crew (though Mal is my avatar everywhere else except FFG forums). Even the girls are balanced for hotness. Except for River. We stay away from the River.

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On a slightly tangential note, this raises a big mystery of the new canon, though I admit I have not gone that much into it.If the new order is just the latest in the line of tropes of hidden Sith Empires coming back for vengeance, why aren't their fighters much better? They've had 30 years to develop in secret, presumably while studying Republic patterns. SWTOR covers this pretty well but it's not really explained in new canon.

Having watched TFA a few times, I got the impression the first order was just a rebranded Imperial remnant. Surviving members of the Empire were forced back through space by the rebellion and then the Republic. They consolidated power in a star system and formed their own territory, directly next door to the republic. They push in and fight every now and then, but the republic refuses to publicly fight back for fear of escalation.The resistance is an offshoot who actuvely fight against the FO, taciturnly protected and supported by the republic, but not officially, so the republic has deniability.
If I remember my forum rumors right than the EU explains that the first order is a republic supported organisation, supported by the centralist of the about half the republic's senate. The other half are basically separatists who wants more independence for their systems. TFA is basically TPM, they just don't show the political crap and give is bob instead of Darth as main antagonist.

A fair cop but 30 years of starfighter stagnation is pretty shocking, especially considering that they had the resources to develop something huge. I was frankly expecting most of the FO ships to be like the TIE sf

 

 

It took about 10 years to get the F-22 from paper to flying. Another 10 years before the prototypes were combat worthy. Another 10 years to complete production, all while spiralling in cost and dropping from 750 aircraft to 195. The F-16 is pushing 40 years old and is still a frontline fighter and will be for at least another decade. The F-35 meanwhile can't dogfight its way out of a paper bag.

Edited by Lampyridae

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V-19 was accepted into service at the start of the Clone Wars, 3 years later it was completely replaced with a new generation of starfighters. Upgraded Y-wings were considered obsolete ~20 years after introduction of the first model.

Venator was replaced in ~15 years. Imperial-class was replaced by vessels twice as large by the time of TFA. Nu, Theta, Lambda, Sentinels, transport crafts which don't have to be top notch, by definition (C-5 Galaxy for real life example, is almost 50 years old).

Yet TIE/ln and X-wing has stood the test of time.

Because "Star Wars means X-Wings and Tie Fighters" as someone pointed out earlier :D :D :D

Edited by eMeM

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Yet TIE/ln and X-wing has stood the test of time.Because "Star Wars means X-Wings and Tie Fighters" as someone pointed out earlier :D :D :D

And I'm not complaining about it. The first Death Star attack remains the greatest cinema scene ever, in my mind. Blew me away and all I've ever wanted was more x-wings. It's a shame the ships aren't very good, amd I'm too competative to fly them.

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Yet TIE/ln and X-wing has stood the test of time.Because "Star Wars means X-Wings and Tie Fighters" as someone pointed out earlier :D :D :D

And I'm not complaining about it. The first Death Star attack remains the greatest cinema scene ever, in my mind. Blew me away and all I've ever wanted was more x-wings. It's a shame the ships aren't very good, amd I'm too competative to fly them.

 

But I am complaining.

My favourite is the Battle of Yavin, but we (will) have movies like Rogue One for classic ships, while the new episodes, especially if they are set 30+ years in the future, should show us something new.

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Yet TIE/ln and X-wing has stood the test of time.Because "Star Wars means X-Wings and Tie Fighters" as someone pointed out earlier :D :D :D

And I'm not complaining about it. The first Death Star attack remains the greatest cinema scene ever, in my mind. Blew me away and all I've ever wanted was more x-wings. It's a shame the ships aren't very good, amd I'm too competative to fly them.

But I am complaining.

My favourite is the Battle of Yavin, but we (will) have movies like Rogue One for classic ships, while the new episodes, especially if they are set 30+ years in the future, should show us something new.

Let's get rid of lightsabers and blasters while we're at it. Who needs iconic star wars?

As for advancement, consider the tank or the plane. Since their main use in the 1940's the basic structure and design hasn't changed. Aircraft carriers are the same. That's 60 years. X-Wings won't need development in 30 years. Heck, the M1 Abrams is nearly 20 years old.

And for the person who pointed out the advances in the clone wars - it's easy to improve on rubbish. The clone wars were the first major war in the galaxy for a long time - obviously there was going to the rapid advancement in a short period of time - look at how real world tanks and planes changed in design and material from WW1 in 1915 to WW2 in 1940. Once it's good (T-65) it's improvement in technology, not design (T-70). Same applies to Ties.

Remember as well that the T-70 is not the best X-wing. Another thing to consider is the fact that the x-wing is the symbol of the rebellion abd therefore the new republic. Not something they want to get rid of.

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Yet TIE/ln and X-wing has stood the test of time.Because "Star Wars means X-Wings and Tie Fighters" as someone pointed out earlier :D :D :D

And I'm not complaining about it. The first Death Star attack remains the greatest cinema scene ever, in my mind. Blew me away and all I've ever wanted was more x-wings. It's a shame the ships aren't very good, amd I'm too competative to fly them.

But I am complaining.

My favourite is the Battle of Yavin, but we (will) have movies like Rogue One for classic ships, while the new episodes, especially if they are set 30+ years in the future, should show us something new.

Let's get rid of lightsabers and blasters while we're at it. Who needs iconic star wars?

As for advancement, consider the tank or the plane. Since their main use in the 1940's the basic structure and design hasn't changed. Aircraft carriers are the same. That's 60 years. X-Wings won't need development in 30 years. Heck, the M1 Abrams is nearly 20 years old.

And for the person who pointed out the advances in the clone wars - it's easy to improve on rubbish. The clone wars were the first major war in the galaxy for a long time - obviously there was going to the rapid advancement in a short period of time - look at how real world tanks and planes changed in design and material from WW1 in 1915 to WW2 in 1940. Once it's good (T-65) it's improvement in technology, not design (T-70). Same applies to Ties.

Remember as well that the T-70 is not the best X-wing. Another thing to consider is the fact that the x-wing is the symbol of the rebellion abd therefore the new republic. Not something they want to get rid of.

 

 

I'll grant you the tanks, but present day aircraft look VERY different from WW2 aircraft.

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Comparing an X-wing to lighsabers... No, Star Wars without X-wings would be like Star Wars without Anakin's lighsaber, AT-AT or Imperial-class, and quite frankly, I can imagine Star Wars without those.

Do you think Episode XXX set 60 years after Endor will have to feature X-wing or it won't be Star Wars?

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I know the imperials have no regards for their basic pilots' lives but flying non stop without maintenance is a recipe for disaster.

Maintinance on what? Shields? nope! Life support? Pilot brings it with him, turns it in to mechanics before he heads to the bar.

Weapons and propulsion? on endless patrol sweeps a tie pilot shouldnt really be stressing the equipment, but you can build a hefty margin in just in case.

 

If it's designed for a week of continuous operation only swapping what the pilot can carry, they can carry out general maintinance when the carrier ship is hyperspacing. And it's modular parts, so even that shouldnt take long.

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I know the imperials have no regards for their basic pilots' lives but flying non stop without maintenance is a recipe for disaster.

Maintinance on what? Shields? nope! Life support? Pilot brings it with him, turns it in to mechanics before he heads to the bar.

Weapons and propulsion? on endless patrol sweeps a tie pilot shouldnt really be stressing the equipment, but you can build a hefty margin in just in case.

 

If it's designed for a week of continuous operation only swapping what the pilot can carry, they can carry out general maintinance when the carrier ship is hyperspacing. And it's modular parts, so even that shouldnt take long.

 

 

Well, you still have various mechanical, electrical, and structural systems (such as the control system, the pilot entry hatch, the targeting system, etc.) which should be regularly maintained or else run the risk of compromising the integrity of the entire vehicle.

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Comparing an X-wing to lighsabers... No, Star Wars without X-wings would be like Star Wars without Anakin's lighsaber, AT-AT or Imperial-class, and quite frankly, I can imagine Star Wars without those.

Do you think Episode XXX set 60 years after Endor will have to feature X-wing or it won't be Star Wars?

 

What do you consider Star Wars then? You've listed some of the most iconic things there are - lightsabers, AT-ATs, X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

 

And while it would still be Star Wars, I think having X-Wings will always be part of Star Wars. So will having lightsabers.  

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Comparing an X-wing to lighsabers... No, Star Wars without X-wings would be like Star Wars without Anakin's lighsaber, AT-AT or Imperial-class, and quite frankly, I can imagine Star Wars without those.

Do you think Episode XXX set 60 years after Endor will have to feature X-wing or it won't be Star Wars?

 

What do you consider Star Wars then? You've listed some of the most iconic things there are - lightsabers, AT-ATs, X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

 

And while it would still be Star Wars, I think having X-Wings will always be part of Star Wars. So will having lightsabers.  

 

 

I don't recall seeing X-Wings in Old Republic, though they did still have lightsabers.

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Comparing an X-wing to lighsabers... No, Star Wars without X-wings would be like Star Wars without Anakin's lighsaber, AT-AT or Imperial-class, and quite frankly, I can imagine Star Wars without those.

Do you think Episode XXX set 60 years after Endor will have to feature X-wing or it won't be Star Wars?

 

What do you consider Star Wars then? You've listed some of the most iconic things there are - lightsabers, AT-ATs, X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

 

And while it would still be Star Wars, I think having X-Wings will always be part of Star Wars. So will having lightsabers.  

 

 

I don't recall seeing X-Wings in Old Republic, though they did still have lightsabers.

 

 

Set in a time before the creation of X-Wings, so canonically you couldn't have them. But they were in the original film, and are in most, if not all, the media set after ANH.

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Comparing an X-wing to lighsabers... No, Star Wars without X-wings would be like Star Wars without Anakin's lighsaber, AT-AT or Imperial-class, and quite frankly, I can imagine Star Wars without those.

Do you think Episode XXX set 60 years after Endor will have to feature X-wing or it won't be Star Wars?

 

What do you consider Star Wars then? You've listed some of the most iconic things there are - lightsabers, AT-ATs, X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

 

And while it would still be Star Wars, I think having X-Wings will always be part of Star Wars. So will having lightsabers.

I didn't write "lightsabers" but "Anakin's lighsaber", and not "Star Destroyer" but "Imperial-class", just like you wrote " X-wings" not "starfighters".

You obviously don't consider prequels Star Wars, so I skip them. ANH didn't have AT-ATs, RoTJ didn't have Anakin's lightsaber, TFA didn't have ISDs. Still pretty solid Star Wars.

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I didn't write "lightsabers" but "Anakin's lighsaber", and not "Star Destroyer" but "Imperial-class", just like you wrote " X-wings" not "starfighters".

You obviously don't consider prequels Star Wars, so I skip them. ANH didn't have AT-ATs, RoTJ didn't have Anakin's lightsaber, TFA didn't have ISDs. Still pretty solid Star Wars.

 

 

Sigh. I don't know why I bother sometimes. What specifically about Anakin's lightsaber do you not like? In IV and V, Anakin's lightsabers are ones we see. What specifically about Star Destroyers? We only see two types of star destroyers in the three first films.

 

I DO consider the prequels Star Wars - heck, I probably hold the unpopular opinion that they were pretty good. A lot of people do not. The fact that something is iconic doesn't mean it appears all the time. Darth Vader only appears in 4 movies. 

 

If you take a Sci-Fi movie, and strip away all the stuff from Star Wars, it stops being Star Wars. The idea that X-Wings are bad because the galaxy should have moved on is nonsensical and actually not based on any real reasoning.

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