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ObiWonka

Wave IX - Everything is Awesome

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the ps 3 g1-a is not more durable than the Fang

 

ofc, the fang should be priced the same or cheaper than the interceptor, because the interceptor is an inefficient P.o.S that's saved only through the bonkers ability + PS of Soontir and the great Carnor jax, but knowing FFG it simply won't be

 

at 25 for crack thrusters, at least it isn't horrible (poor blacksun ace)

I 100% agree, Fang Fighter generics should be priced the same or cheaper than the Interceptor.

What's that you say? A ship relying on green dice for defense is more durable than a G1A :)

Shocking to hear that from you of allllll people!

Fang & G1A are very close defensively of course, but I still give the slight edge to G1A entirely because it has the evade action. Fang Fighter doesn't have evade & no evade is why starvipers struggle.

Best comparison for a 25 point crack thrusters Fang would be the 20 point crack thrusters A-wing.

How valuable is 3 red dice, over 2, on a somewhat squishy ship?

In the current meta, not 5 points.

 

 For as much as people bemoan the absence of that action on those ships, I've never particularly missed it on Starvipers and Defenders. Maybe I don't use the Evade action as much as I should.

 

I miss it all the time on the starviper.  Pretty much every time I've had guri die it's been because she rolled all blank greens.  her stack of focus tokens don't help with that.  An evade token does.  And x7 title giving evades on the defender has made them incredibly hard to kill with focus/evade every round.

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the ps 3 g1-a is not more durable than the Fang

 

8 health  1 agility melts to everything under the sun, while focused autothrusters are at least sturdy while thrusters are up

 

not to mention the ps 3 g1-a is PS 3 (not 5) and does not have access to crackshot

 

 

ofc, the fang should be priced the same or cheaper than the interceptor, because the interceptor is an inefficient P.o.S that's saved only through the bonkers ability + PS of Soontir and the great Carnor jax, but knowing FFG it simply won't be

 

at 25 for crack thrusters, at least it isn't horrible (poor blacksun ace)

 

If the PS1 Fang is 19 points, I think it's in a good place. Assuming that it's got a good dial, you are essentially getting an Alpha with a Hull Upgrade and Torpedo slot for a single point more. 

 

At 19 points for the PS1, the Fang would essentially be keeping the same scaling that the Interceptor has and have better scaling than the Khiraxz has. I'm hoping it comes in at 19 points but expecting it to maybe cost 20.

 

 

20 points with title, which works when you're bumping (just gotta be arc to arc...kinky)

 

Making them cheaper than Interceptors would make them too cheap. That would bring the PS1 in at 17 points meaning it would be 20 points with Autothrusters and the Title. Sure, I'd play the hell out of 5 of those but I think they would be significantly underpriced.  

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the ps 3 g1-a is not more durable than the Fang

 

8 health  1 agility melts to everything under the sun, while focused autothrusters are at least sturdy while thrusters are up

 

not to mention the ps 3 g1-a is PS 3 (not 5) and does not have access to crackshot

 

 

ofc, the fang should be priced the same or cheaper than the interceptor, because the interceptor is an inefficient P.o.S that's saved only through the bonkers ability + PS of Soontir and the great Carnor jax, but knowing FFG it simply won't be

 

at 25 for crack thrusters, at least it isn't horrible (poor blacksun ace)

 

If the PS1 Fang is 19 points, I think it's in a good place. Assuming that it's got a good dial, you are essentially getting an Alpha with a Hull Upgrade and Torpedo slot for a single point more. 

 

At 19 points for the PS1, the Fang would essentially be keeping the same scaling that the Interceptor has and have better scaling than the Khiraxz has. I'm hoping it comes in at 19 points but expecting it to maybe cost 20.

 

 

20 points with title, which works when you're bumping (just gotta be arc to arc...kinky)

 

Making them cheaper than Interceptors would make them too cheap. That would bring the PS1 in at 17 points meaning it would be 20 points with Autothrusters and the Title. Sure, I'd play the hell out of 5 of those but I think they would be significantly underpriced.  

 

I don't see 5 Thruster Alpha interceptors blowing up the meta now or any time soon... how about if each had an extra hp?  Still probably not.  They need to be that good to have any hope of seeing competetive play.

 

Granted, they look fantastic against the Scyk and Kfighter... that's a problem for those ships though...hopefully not for this one. 

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I just wish the ARC-170 had more on it's card. I mean just a focus and a target lock. And it's pretty expensive.

What more could it have? It's a heavy fighter, boost and barrel roll don't belong there (though either can be added) as neither does evade. Cloak would be awesome of course, and handy for a recon. craft, but there was never any chance of that. I think the action bar is all it could have been.

The ARC-170 has a retrofit to make it modern.  Which means it's not really a "prequel" ship.D\

Don't play dumb. Is it a ship that first appeared in the prequels?

Yes.

Prequel garbage. Everything about the aesthetic of the prequels was garbage then, and remains garbage now. The ARC looks like the lovechild of an X-Wing, a dragonfly, and Gonzo from the Muppets.

 

Why do people get so caught up in wanting to put the hate on something?

Because it's awful, and the prequels are awful. Nobody wanted to hate the prequels. Quite the opposite. We wanted to love them. But they're bad. Terribad. And everything from them is bad. Without exception. Well, I take that back, John Williams put up a decent score for them. But there's still bad acting, terrible dialog, bad storytelling, and too much CGI, stupid looking ships, etc. The prequels are best left forgotten, and stuffing prequel garbage into the X-Wing game only makes it worse, because it reminds everyone how awesome Star Wars was before the prequels, and then how awful it became after they were released. X-Wing was great because it was Good Star Wars. This opens the door for Bad Star Wars. And that's bad.

Boy are you gonna pissed off when the N1 comes out in Wave X!

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I just wish the ARC-170 had more on it's card. I mean just a focus and a target lock. And it's pretty expensive.

What more could it have? It's a heavy fighter, boost and barrel roll don't belong there (though either can be added) as neither does evade. Cloak would be awesome of course, and handy for a recon. craft, but there was never any chance of that. I think the action bar is all it could have been.

 

well, it can have barrel-roll with the Vector thrusters it comes with :P

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the ps 3 g1-a is not more durable than the Fang

 

8 health  1 agility melts to everything under the sun, while focused autothrusters are at least sturdy while thrusters are up

 

not to mention the ps 3 g1-a is PS 3 (not 5) and does not have access to crackshot

 

 

ofc, the fang should be priced the same or cheaper than the interceptor, because the interceptor is an inefficient P.o.S that's saved only through the bonkers ability + PS of Soontir and the great Carnor jax, but knowing FFG it simply won't be

 

at 25 for crack thrusters, at least it isn't horrible (poor blacksun ace)

 

If the PS1 Fang is 19 points, I think it's in a good place. Assuming that it's got a good dial, you are essentially getting an Alpha with a Hull Upgrade and Torpedo slot for a single point more. 

 

At 19 points for the PS1, the Fang would essentially be keeping the same scaling that the Interceptor has and have better scaling than the Khiraxz has. I'm hoping it comes in at 19 points but expecting it to maybe cost 20.

 

20 points with title, which works when you're bumping (just gotta be arc to arc...kinky)

 

Making them cheaper than Interceptors would make them too cheap. That would bring the PS1 in at 17 points meaning it would be 20 points with Autothrusters and the Title. Sure, I'd play the hell out of 5 of those but I think they would be significantly underpriced.

I don't see 5 Thruster Alpha interceptors blowing up the meta now or any time soon... how about if each had an extra hp?  Still probably not.  They need to be that good to have any hope of seeing competetive play.

 

Granted, they look fantastic against the Scyk and Kfighter... that's a problem for those ships though...hopefully not for this one.

I imagine that Alphas would be a lot more popular if they had an extra hull and the Concord Dawn Protector title. What 20 points of ship would be a better value than a Fang with Autothrusters and the title? Whole lists of them may not be all over the place but I could easily see Dengar with a pair of them or 3 of them with a 40 point ship.

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That's what I'm saying... 16pt interceptors + " autothrusters" that work at all ranges and a hull upgrade would see play. That also shows you how bad off real interceptors not named Soontir or Jax really are in today's game. Not quite as bad off as Scyks or Starvipers but almost as bad. Almost.

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My true disappointment is no mag-pulse weapon, which was mentioned in the film, or any other ordnance coming with the TIE/sf.

Gah! Me too! Biggest disappointment of the wave. Ah well, here's hoping they bring it out with...do I dare say it? Yes: the Assault Gunboat.

Also, the ARC-170 appeared in one of the most visually stunning space battles in the saga. I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters a second time almost entirely for that scene. (The other best parts were Order 66 and the immolation scene. Man. Such a great movie!)

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Quickdraw is a PS9 pilot, and costs 29 points. Generally FFG values PS at 1 point per PS. So quick math: PS9 - 8 points = 21 points for a PS1. Pilots are often charged 1 point for having an ability. It's also not unheard of for FFG to charge a pilot extra points for either having an EPT or having a very good pilot ability. 
 
We should therefore expect a PS1 TIE S/F to cost roughly 20-21 points. If they're feeling very aggressive, a PS1 TIE S/F could come in at 19 points. I'd be very surprised by this, but it's worth mentioning. Lets call 20 points our baseline.
 
The TIE S/F doesn't have a PS1 ship, so we can simply add 2 points for the PS3 "Zeta (something)*" and we get probably 22 points for that ship. Maybe 23. Interesting note: At PS3, Zeta only faces 1 reroll from Predator, and as a non-unique pilot, Zeta is only taking 1 reroll from Crew!Dengar. 
 
So. What kind of performance can we expect from the TIE S/F? What are we getting for our 22 points? 
 
If you count the zero point title, it has an effective statline of 3/2/3/3, plus the aux arc. It looks _very_ similar to the T-70 X-Wing. They both have re-positioning abilities. Neither has the Evade action. They both have a munitions** slot, and both of them have 2 ship upgrade slots- Both have the Tech slot, and the S/F gets a system slot against the T-70's Astromech slot. Without looking at the dial, these ships look very similar. 
 
I just looked up Ye Olde Jousting Values, and:
 

Stat line efficiency only cares about 5 variables: cost, attack, agility, hull, shields. The T-70 gains 1 shield but it costs 3 more points.
 
3/2/3/2 is worth just under 18 points. T-65 jousting efficiency is therefore about:
18 * (1 + 1/24) / 21 = 89.3%
 
3/2/3/3 is worth about 20 points. T-70 jousting efficiency is therefore about:
20 * (1 + 1/24) / 24 = 86.8%
 
Boost on the T-70 is nice, but will not be enough to make the PS2 viable. This is easy to predict because the PS1 TIE Interceptor also has boost, and has a better jousting efficiency of ~90%, but is basically extinct now.
 
Poe is another story. I haven't done the math on him yet.

 
If we had a 20 point PS1 TIE S/F, it would be statline efficient. The one TIE S/F we know the costing of has a costing that makes 20 points for a PS1 plausible. This makes me very happy. 
 
Having said all that: A PS3 TIE S/F is probably not worth 2 points over a hypothetical PS1 TIE S/F. Going from PS 1 to PS 2 doesn't (usually) gain enough to be worth an entire point. However, going from PS 8 to PS 9 really _is_ (usually) worth the 2 points that Poe is paying for it.

 

PS3 is also kind of a dead zone where the disadvantages (moving after the best blockers, but before the best arc dodgers) tend to outweigh the advantages (firing before the PS1 and PS2 ships). Even if the PS3 TIE S/F comes out at 22 points and is technically "efficient", it might not actually be good enough to see play. Which is, yes, kind of silly. 

 

So. The short version: Even without the auxiliary arc, the TIE S/F looks like it has the potential to be a very good ship for the price. I'm looking forward to getting these to my table and seeing what I can make them do! 

 

__________________________________________________________

 

 

*This is what I read when I zoom in on the cards in the spread. It seems weird that both the TIE S/F and TIE F/O would have a "Zeta Squadron Pilot", and yet that's what I think I see. It might well be "Zeta Squadron Veteran" or something. 

 
**Note the weird interaction with the TIE S/F title and Guidance Chimps: the TIE/SF ability adds an _effective_ extra die, but doesn't raise the attack value to 3 or more. Therefore the GC will let you convert a die to a (hit), rather than a (crit). It's not a big deal, but it is interesting.

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Making them cheaper than Interceptors would make them too cheap. That would bring the PS1 in at 17 points meaning it would be 20 points with Autothrusters and the Title. Sure, I'd play the hell out of 5 of those but I think they would be significantly underpriced.

I feel like every time FFG has added a point to a ship to keep players from being able to run 5 of them in a list... those ships have ended up being too expensive. 

 

The Fang is the kind of ship you need to think of as disposable. It has 3 health and everything about its design screams "get up close, face to face". I may be able to do a lot of damage with a ship like that, but I'm not going to bet that it will survive all that long! So therefore I'm not going to put a lot of points into it. 17 points base + 3 points for the various "mandatory" upgrades seem just about right.

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So much Shadowcaster hate. It might have an aesthetic many will have a hard time getting behind but free automatic tractor beam tokens that don't take away your primary shot!!! 

 

MY FAVORITE STAR TREK SHIP IS NOW IN MY FAVORITE STAR WARS GAME AND I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER ABOUT IT! 

 

(For real. Not sarcastic. I heart the Defiant, but do _not_ want to play Attack Wing)

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Making them cheaper than Interceptors would make them too cheap. That would bring the PS1 in at 17 points meaning it would be 20 points with Autothrusters and the Title. Sure, I'd play the hell out of 5 of those but I think they would be significantly underpriced.

I feel like every time FFG has added a point to a ship to keep players from being able to run 5 of them in a list... those ships have ended up being too expensive.

The Fang is the kind of ship you need to think of as disposable. It has 3 health and everything about its design screams "get up close, face to face". I may be able to do a lot of damage with a ship like that, but I'm not going to bet that it will survive all that long! So therefore I'm not going to put a lot of points into it. 17 points base + 3 points for the various "mandatory" upgrades seem just about right.

It's got 4 hits. If they are 19 points you can run 5 of them with the title, I think that's a likely price for them based on the cost of the PS9. If the PS1 is 17 points that means you are paying about 3 points for the ability on the PS9. Edited by WWHSD

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It's got 4 hits. If they are 19 points you can run 5 of them with the title, I think that's a likely price for them based on the cost of the PS9. If the PS1 is 17 points that means you are paying about 3 points for the ability on the PS9

My bad! That actually does make a fairly large difference! I think 17 points for the PS1 is the right price. 18 points also works.

Assuming a dial that works well with PTL, I could very much understand if Fenn were paying a points premium for the PS9. Or, differently, he's paying a points premium for PS9, I don't think the PS1 should also pay that premium.

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Everything is Still Awesome!

 

With the Wave IX previews starting to come at us, it's time to put the rest of my preliminary thoughts out there before it's too late! This part's about the two Scum & Villainy ships we're getting this wave. Firstly, the Protectorate Starfighter, aka the Fang fighter.

 

swx55_layout.png

 

 

 

This marks only the fourth shield-less ship to be available in X-Wing. It joins the TIE Fighter, Interceptor, and Bomber, making it the first non-Imperial, and the only one other than the Bomber that can avoid Flechette Torpedoes (with a Hull Upgrade). Like the ARC-170, this expansion's pilots also come in a unique configuration - three generics and three uniques! It also only comes with two upgrade cards, both of which are strongly intended for use with this craft (one being a Fang-only title).

 

As far as the pilots go, we only know Fenn Rau for sure. He's Scum's third PS9 ace, finally in a ship that's presumably destined to be more of a traditional arc-dodger. With both Boost and Barrel Roll, he's sure to get a lot of use out of his ability, "When attacking or defending, if the enemy ship is at Range 1, you may roll 1 additional die." That's five massive dice for his attack! Despite the Torpedo slot, I don't think this guy's going to be needing Advanced Proton Torpedoes any time soon.

 

We can kind of see what is speculated to be "Old Teacher", the PS7. "At the... you... Range... it disca[rd]..." Not quite enough there to go on, but perhaps forcing an enemy at close range to discard some kind of upgrade at the start or end of one phase or another. Sounds powerful. The PS6, Kad Solus, is a little clearer: "After you execute a red maneuver, assign 2 focus tokens to your ship." Kind of like a Scum Soontir Fel, though -3PS makes a big difference. Still a solid ability, when you consider Advanced Sensors was popular for a long time on B-Wings at least in part due to the ability to not miss actions on red maneuvers - and here you get two tokens!

 

Speaking or red maneuvers, the dial shown lets us know the Fang will have a 2-speed Tallon-roll! The T-Roll is a very cool maneuver, and this is the first at speed 2. It's a tight maneuver great for quick turn-arounds and staying in a furball, which the Fang is going to love when we take a look at the upgrades (not to mention the Range 1 ability/ies above).

 

First is the Concord Dawn Protector Title, non-unique and only a point like the TAP's. "When defending, if you are inside the attacker's firing arc and at Range 1 and the attacker is inside your firing arc, add 1 [evade] result." In contrast to what you might expect from a PS9 ace, this encourages jousting instead of arc-dodging. Perhaps we'll see more Fenns forgoing the title and being flown the latter way? Who knows? An Evade token is greater than the attack die the attacker will enjoy for being at range 1, though, so don't discount this style of flying too soon. Additionally, it actually pairs great with Autothrusters, each covering an area the other can't. The Elite Pilot Talent upgrade, "Fearless(ness)" also seems to be an inverse of this, adding a [hit] result for meeting the same conditions. This could be as expensive as 4 points (or more), in the grand tradition of Expose and Opportunist making you jump through hoops just to get an extra attack die (let alone a guaranteed hit)!

 

Whew, that's a lot for such a small ship! I'll let everyone digest that and come back later with the Shadow Caster. But I can tell you this little ship and its playstyle sound very exciting to me!

Edited by ObiWonka

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Worth noting that Old Teacher (not Master, you can see the base token bottom left) almost certainly mentions Range 1, as the preview confirmed that 4 things mention range 1 - Fenn does, the title does, Fear... (Probably Fearlessness and probably an attack version of the title) probably does too, which leaves only Old Teacher to have any rules text.  So he's probably something at range 1.

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I just wish the "Fang Fighter"didn't look so much like the Earth fighter from Buck Rogers!  The aesthetic just leaves me cold, although I like the stats for the ship and want to play it.  

It does! That makes me like it more. 

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The 'Zeta Specialist' costing 23 points is a bad omen of things to come for the Fang Fighter :(

It means generic pilots are still getting screwed over & over in the dirty Mos Eisley back alley.

I now expect PS1 Fang to be an overcosted 19 points.

These releases give the appearance that ships are purposely overcosted. The only reason to do so would be to sell 'fix' cards in an expansion two years from now.

If the rumors are true, a starviper buff will come with a Scum epic ship. I have no desire to purchase a Scum epic ship. :( If FFG was a faction, would they be the scum faction?

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PS 1 fang, going by Fenn v soontir, was always going to be overcosted at 19 probably

It can block with both boost and barrel roll, but the A-Wing does that better at 4 points cheaper. It can shoot like an Alpha Squadron Pilot, with a Hull Upgrade for 1 point more. The (generic) Fang is sort of a weird hybrid of two different ships from the other two factions. It doesn't seem at this time to be able to fill either role very well at this stage, so time will tell if it has some place somewhere. (Heck, Serissu backing a bunch of these is a kind of Scum TIE Swarm?)

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