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Are the ships getting too obscure?

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The Scimitar's design is a major cock-up with special emphasis on the cock part.

 
 

Guys... have you seen a wingless Mon Calamari vessel?!

 

 

Yeah, it's this childish "I don't like it so I must use the cock-analogy (no pun intended)"-reaction.

Like Xerendar said: If you are so disgusted by things that are longer then wide and you find are looking cock-like, then look at the Mon Cal vessels, the front tip of an X-Wing, and several other "canon" ships. This analogy annoys me like hell since it came up in the "Imperial Epic ship" thread when the Lancer Frigatte came up.

 

Then this guys certainly can't take U-boats seriously and hate Red Octobre for this very reason.

(I don't know if this was sarcasm by you, Blue Five, but this topic is something that makes me just a little angry ;) )

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I'm looking at some of the ships that come out, and if I didn't play x-wing I wouldn't know they were from star wars.

I guess this is part of my problem with wave IX - it's so disconnected for me. Sure, the alternative is millions of new pilots for existing platforms, but the ships themselves are part of what makes this game iconic.

I'm going to go and dig out my t-65s.

And I want a gunboat.

What's a "gunboat"?

 

 

It's sort of like a missile boat, but with fewer missiles and more guns.

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The Scimitar's design is a major cock-up with special emphasis on the cock part.

 
 

Guys... have you seen a wingless Mon Calamari vessel?!

 

 

Yeah, it's this childish "I don't like it so I must use the cock-analogy (no pun intended)"-reaction.

Like Xerendar said: If you are so disgusted by things that are longer then wide and you find are looking cock-like, then look at the Mon Cal vessels, the front tip of an X-Wing, and several other "canon" ships. This analogy annoys me like hell since it came up in the "Imperial Epic ship" thread when the Lancer Frigatte came up.

 

Then this guys certainly can't take U-boats seriously and hate Red Octobre for this very reason.

(I don't know if this was sarcasm by you, Blue Five, but this topic is something that makes me just a little angry ;) )

 

 

oh please

 

everyone knows the mon cal is too lumpy to be a phallus

 

it's a flying turd

 

12322449_10156244425575142_1021058689825

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Chucknuckle, on 06 Jun 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:Chucknuckle, on 06 Jun 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't 'like' your situation Paul, but I think it's a good example of how this game, at such an early stage of it's development, already has a significant barrier to entry for new players.

Magnus Grendel, on 06 Jun 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:Magnus Grendel, on 06 Jun 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

I always found that decision weird, given that the patrol corvette looks very similar and has been in Rebels. But hey, I prefer the look of the raider, so it's all good.

Patrol corvette? Do you mean the Arquitens? Because that thing is bigger than it looks. The CR90 is 150 metres, the Arquitens is like, 250. A Neb B is only 300, so that gives you an idea of the scale issue of including an Arquitens in X Wing.

 

This:

 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d9/Transport_%28Kuat%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070227183614

 

(wont let me embed_

Edited by Cr0aker

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And this is different from getting into a mature LCG how? Or any mature game? 

 

Not sure why you are comparing X-wing to a LCG I'm not sure that's a valid comparison.  IT's different because if I want to get into say, Warmahordes MK3 in a month or so I might have to buy several units but I'm not forced to buy units from different factions to make the best of the faction I choose to play.  

 

Having said all that I'm not sure it's a price issue just a 'feel bad' issue and no it won't put everyone off but if it puts anyone off that's a missed opportunity for FFG.

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And this is different from getting into a mature LCG how? Or any mature game? 

 

Not sure why you are comparing X-wing to a LCG I'm not sure that's a valid comparison.  IT's different because if I want to get into say, Warmahordes MK3 in a month or so I might have to buy several units but I'm not forced to buy units from different factions to make the best of the faction I choose to play.  

 

Having said all that I'm not sure it's a price issue just a 'feel bad' issue and no it won't put everyone off but if it puts anyone off that's a missed opportunity for FFG.

 

 

I fail to see the difference in buying a $15 pack for 1/20 cards is any different than buying a $15 ship for 1/5 cards. Except that you may need a lot more of those one cards for deck. 

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To answer the original question:  No; it is a matter of perspective as noted many times throughout the topic.

 

I too am a fan from when only the movies existed... and then there was this WEG role playing game... then my favorite sci fi author wrote this book Heir to the Empire....  and then I discovered X-wing, TIE Fighter etc.  Things seemed to get bigger and better for a time... then they became watered down and (in my opinion) disappointing.

 

What is obscure to me may not be to you and vice-a-versa.  Of course I am going to pine for that which is nostalgic for me but may be obscure to the 'newer' generation who watch disney cartoons etc. 

 

I do like the continued growth of the game, but my interest will likely wane and fade if they cut out what is nostalgic to me.

 

So I hope they do continue to pull from old and new content.  That I could fly a YT-2400, E-Wing, or HWK got me interested in the game, that I like games in general and could revisit my youth sold me.

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The Scimitar's design is a major cock-up with special emphasis on the cock part.

 
 

Guys... have you seen a wingless Mon Calamari vessel?!

 

 

Yeah, it's this childish "I don't like it so I must use the cock-analogy (no pun intended)"-reaction.

Like Xerendar said: If you are so disgusted by things that are longer then wide and you find are looking cock-like, then look at the Mon Cal vessels, the front tip of an X-Wing, and several other "canon" ships. This analogy annoys me like hell since it came up in the "Imperial Epic ship" thread when the Lancer Frigatte came up.

 

Then this guys certainly can't take U-boats seriously and hate Red Octobre for this very reason.

(I don't know if this was sarcasm by you, Blue Five, but this topic is something that makes me just a little angry ;) )

 

 

oh please

 

everyone knows the mon cal is too lumpy to be a phallus

 

it's a flying turd

 

12322449_10156244425575142_1021058689825

 

What a phallusy, claiming that Home One looks like a *****.Takes real balls to shaft the designer's abilities and miss the thrust of their design, which is supposed to spring straight up, mighty and erect, from the salty darkness, ready to push its way into the enemy depths.

 

Dong joke.

 

...Dammit, I wish I could afford Armada. That looks like so much fun.

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The Scimitar's design is a major cock-up with special emphasis on the cock part.

 
 

Guys... have you seen a wingless Mon Calamari vessel?!

 

 

Yeah, it's this childish "I don't like it so I must use the cock-analogy (no pun intended)"-reaction.

Like Xerendar said: If you are so disgusted by things that are longer then wide and you find are looking cock-like, then look at the Mon Cal vessels, the front tip of an X-Wing, and several other "canon" ships. This analogy annoys me like hell since it came up in the "Imperial Epic ship" thread when the Lancer Frigatte came up.

 

Then this guys certainly can't take U-boats seriously and hate Red Octobre for this very reason.

(I don't know if this was sarcasm by you, Blue Five, but this topic is something that makes me just a little angry ;) )

 

 

oh please

 

everyone knows the mon cal is too lumpy to be a phallus

 

it's a flying turd

 

 

What a phallusy, claiming that Home One looks like a *****.Takes real balls to shaft the designer's abilities and miss the thrust of their design, which is supposed to spring straight up, mighty and erect, from the salty darkness, ready to push its way into the enemy depths.

 

Dong joke.

 

...Dammit, I wish I could afford Armada. That looks like so much fun.

 

 

it is until you realized you just let a Victory Star Destroyer jump from hyper-space right up to your squishy backside

 

12304129_10156244425955142_7041874806644

 

it's at this point that the mon-cal REALLY wishes to stop thinking about phallic imagery

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Chucknuckle, on 06 Jun 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:Chucknuckle, on 06 Jun 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't 'like' your situation Paul, but I think it's a good example of how this game, at such an early stage of it's development, already has a significant barrier to entry for new players.

Magnus Grendel, on 06 Jun 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:Magnus Grendel, on 06 Jun 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

I always found that decision weird, given that the patrol corvette looks very similar and has been in Rebels. But hey, I prefer the look of the raider, so it's all good.

Patrol corvette? Do you mean the Arquitens? Because that thing is bigger than it looks. The CR90 is 150 metres, the Arquitens is like, 250. A Neb B is only 300, so that gives you an idea of the scale issue of including an Arquitens in X Wing.

This:

 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d9/Transport_(Kuat).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070227183614

 

(wont let me embed_

Im fairly confident that corvet been in Rebels... though I'm happy to be corrected.

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Im fairly confident that corvet been in Rebels... though I'm happy to be corrected.

 

I don't recall ever seeing it. Maybe the forked bow that both it and the Arquitens have is causing confusion?

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To the OP No. I think most everyone has chimed in pointing out that all of these ships are seen either in the movies or on TV.

 

I actually like this wave better than the K-Wing and Punisher wave. I liked some of the new cards but the ship, to me, did and do look ugly. The new ones at least are seen in canon releases (movies and TV). Sure many like some EU stuff, I like the TIE Defender and Phanton.

 

I'm hoping that LFL includes the Raider somewhere as canon.

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And this is different from getting into a mature LCG how? Or any mature game?

Who cares about card games? X Wing is not a card game. To get into SAGA, I need the core rule book, the faction book if required, and two boxes of plastic models and I'm done. To get into Kings of War I need the rulebook, and whatever models I want to run to fill out my army. I don't need to buy Elf Archers to add upgrades to my Undead Knights.

This is the model MOST miniatures games take. Buy the book, and buy whatever models you want. The rules, including any and all upgrades, are almost always covered in one or two manuals, not scattered randomly over the entire range of models.

Like Paul mentioned earlier, it's not a price issue. Most miniatures games cost a comparative amount to X Wing, and some cost considerably more. The issue, IMO, is that X Wing markets itself as this easy to pick up, simple to get into game, but to get SERIOUS about X Wing is actually a really involved process that requires researching card effects and which cards come with which ships, tracking down cards on the secondary market, or buying lots of cross-faction ships. And as the range grows, so does the problem, which for a game in it's infancy is a real problem.

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No, and stop whining about that **** Gunboat. Bad ship idea from a bad game.

Saltiness is the path to the Dark Side. Saltiness leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to trolling.

Much saltiness I sense in you.

 

 

I thought saltiness leads to high sodium intake?

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And this is different from getting into a mature LCG how? Or any mature game?

Who cares about card games? X Wing is not a card game. To get into SAGA, I need the core rule book, the faction book if required, and two boxes of plastic models and I'm done. To get into Kings of War I need the rulebook, and whatever models I want to run to fill out my army. I don't need to buy Elf Archers to add upgrades to my Undead Knights.

This is the model MOST miniatures games take. Buy the book, and buy whatever models you want. The rules, including any and all upgrades, are almost always covered in one or two manuals, not scattered randomly over the entire range of models.

Like Paul mentioned earlier, it's not a price issue. Most miniatures games cost a comparative amount to X Wing, and some cost considerably more. The issue, IMO, is that X Wing markets itself as this easy to pick up, simple to get into game, but to get SERIOUS about X Wing is actually a really involved process that requires researching card effects and which cards come with which ships, tracking down cards on the secondary market, or buying lots of cross-faction ships. And as the range grows, so does the problem, which for a game in it's infancy is a real problem.

 

 

Netrunner currently has the core set, 4 big box expansions, and 29 released packs. So easy to get started and building competitive decks, right? You don't have to do research or get told what to buy, right? 

 

I get it. The cards are not what war gamers are used to. But guess what, the cards are what helps make this game so accessible and successful. To those of us with a CCG/CMG background, the cards being visible is quite helpful. Having to reference a book just doesn't have an appeal to me. 

 

And going to your point about accessibility, which is 100% relevant to card games as well, it is just a side effect of the game going on so long. And that is where the veteran players come in. Get out of the "tier one only" view of a ship. Does Vader work best with the ATC, sure. But he can still be a FUN ship without it. Don't encourage the belief that the X-wing is a worthless ship. And help by letting borrow stuff. 

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Get out of the "tier one only" view of a ship.

That is very much an attitude around here I'm way past sick and tired of seeing.

 

While I completely understand that the X-Wing is not a tier 1 ship, and Interceptors need PtL and Autothrusters to compete, that doesn't mean people should be trying to convince someone looking to get into the game that they need to drop $750 to play the game casually.

 

If someone wants to fly a Tie Advanced in Regionals, yes you're likely going to need a raider or at least the X1 and ATC upgrades but Regionals isn't what we should be telling new players to aim for, or buy for.

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And this is different from getting into a mature LCG how? Or any mature game?

Who cares about card games? X Wing is not a card game. To get into SAGA, I need the core rule book, the faction book if required, and two boxes of plastic models and I'm done. To get into Kings of War I need the rulebook, and whatever models I want to run to fill out my army. I don't need to buy Elf Archers to add upgrades to my Undead Knights.

This is the model MOST miniatures games take. Buy the book, and buy whatever models you want. The rules, including any and all upgrades, are almost always covered in one or two manuals, not scattered randomly over the entire range of models.

Like Paul mentioned earlier, it's not a price issue. Most miniatures games cost a comparative amount to X Wing, and some cost considerably more. The issue, IMO, is that X Wing markets itself as this easy to pick up, simple to get into game, but to get SERIOUS about X Wing is actually a really involved process that requires researching card effects and which cards come with which ships, tracking down cards on the secondary market, or buying lots of cross-faction ships. And as the range grows, so does the problem, which for a game in it's infancy is a real problem.

 

 

Netrunner currently has the core set, 4 big box expansions, and 29 released packs. So easy to get started and building competitive decks, right? You don't have to do research or get told what to buy, right? 

 

I get it. The cards are not what war gamers are used to. But guess what, the cards are what helps make this game so accessible and successful. To those of us with a CCG/CMG background, the cards being visible is quite helpful. Having to reference a book just doesn't have an appeal to me. 

 

And going to your point about accessibility, which is 100% relevant to card games as well, it is just a side effect of the game going on so long. And that is where the veteran players come in. Get out of the "tier one only" view of a ship. Does Vader work best with the ATC, sure. But he can still be a FUN ship without it. Don't encourage the belief that the X-wing is a worthless ship. And help by letting borrow stuff. 

 

 

I was going to leave this alone as it's a side discussion from the main topic that only came about because of my view that it wasn't the ships that had the biggest potential to put people off.  Anyway....

 

I still don't like the comparison to a CCG or LCG.  I'm an ex Magic the Gathering player so I know all about getting cards for a deck.  This is not how I thought I was going to be approaching X-Wing.  Had I got into any of the LCG's or back into Magic I would have expected the need to go to the secondary market for cards.  I would also have expected 'formats' where I did not need all the cards to be competitive.  I really do not want to see X-Wing tournament that specify only being able to use core set stuff and the last two waves in an attempt to allow new players to play on an even footing!  I also do not want to see players not playing X-Wing because they can see there are too many old expansions they need to field a competitive list.  It's the problem Magic has had for a long time.  I still have a Legacy deck (use almost any card you like) but I hardly get to play because a new player will not dump the money needed to buy into Legacy and the deck has the power level to destroy a standard deck (use only cards from the last few expansion).

 

I didn't get into Game of Thrones simply because I'm not buying the starter and all the expansions and whatever at this late stage.  Had I known it was the same for X-Wing I probably still would have bought in but it would have been a decision.  X-Wing is (and this maybe what needs to change) sold as a fun, cheap and quick to pick up and play system where everything comes in a pre-painted ship expansion.  This is not really true.

 

I accept that nobody has to play at a competitive level.  Play with your friends and run Vader from just the TIE Advanced expansion all you like.  Play with your friends and proxy any card you want (or hell any ship you want).  The problem is that breaks down fast when you want to go to a FLGS and play and meet new people.  

 

X-Wing isn't yet at the stage where it's a massive problem but we are getting to that point quickly.

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