Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
computertrucker

What to buy?

Recommended Posts

So here is my tale.

It's been about 2 1/2 years since I last role-played. About a year ago my wife and I lost everything we owned or almost everything in an apartment fire . Which included almost every single role-playing book I have collected in the last 34 years. I'm lucky I had my Warhammer 40k army out on the road with me and several of my deathwatch books. As my name implies I'm a truck driver long-haul.

Anyway I've got the itch to run a fantasy game, but I'm torn. I haven't played Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition. The last edition I played was fourth edition which actually really enjoyed even though I know a lot of people did not. But I'm looking at the possibility of maybe looking into Warhammer fantasy role-play, it's one of the few role-playing games I've really never touched. Or I may attempt to find a group and invest back into Dungeons & Dragons or possibly even go the route of the iron kingdoms role-playing game.

So anyway I come to this community asking. How do you like Warhammer fantasy? I really enjoyed deathwatch but I'm a little burnt out on 40 K. I realize that it would probably far easier to find a group for Dungeons & Dragons, as that was another thing that's changed is where I live I'm going to have to find an entirely new game with since we have moved cross country n

But for any of you that might have experience with either of the other two Games alongside of Warhammer fantasy role-play I would love to hear some side-by-side comparison on which one you like more and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome (or should I say welcome back) Computertrucker

 

The WFRP v DnD issue has been debated on for decades. Some of it of course boils down to personal preference and what you are familiar with that said there are very definite objective differences between the two. My own personal preference by a country mile is for Warhammer, but then you find me on a Warhammer forum so I guess that shouldn't come as a huge surprise. Warhammer for example is less high fantasy, more fatal, and particularly with the 3rd edition and the non D20 dice, obviously more maths-free than DnD. I could go on and on but it's already been said by others so I'll let them explain. Bear in mind these are  written by other 'fans' of the system, though I think even fans of both can see a clear distinction in how both systems play out. 

 

From this very forum it's discussed here among others:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/27521-top-5-reasons-why-wfrp-any-edition-is-better-than-dd/

 

And here's the Daily Empire's take on it:

http://dailyempire.guildredemund.net/2011/02/wfrp-compared-to-dd.html

 

For me there is no comparison. Warhammer is the better (and more mature game) by far. Good luck with whichever game you choose though even if it turns out to be the wrong one but don't say I didn't tell you so when you yawn as you kill your umpteenth kobold

Edited by Noelyuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to reign in on this in a bit less of a biased view. I say that despite the fact that I run a 2nd Edition Warhammer game, have played Warhammer, am a massive fan of Warhammer, and have also played 3rd edition :P But... I am also a player in a DnD game so I'm not one of those who just refuses to touch DnD with a ten foot pole.

 

First of all its important to ask if your aware of the different versions of Warhammer Fantasy. I say this cause I noticed you mentioned 40k a lot in your post. Well if you've played 40k, then you've already had a taste of the Fantasy system for 1st/2nd edition. The 40k system (at least Dark Heresy) uses a system very similar to 1st/2nd edition Warhammer. It has a similar skill/talent setup and it uses 1d100. That's sorta where the similarity dies, but 1st/2nd edition Warhammer would be familiar to you. Also important to note that despite the, *cough* very similar gods (practically the same gods) in 40k, the lore is completely different. Again you will still feel a sense of familiarity coming from your 40k background.

 

But you might find it hard to differentiate between the two universes.

 

This forum here in particular is dedicated to 3rd Edition Warhammer. If your looking for Warhammer Fantasy, but something completely 'new' then 3rd edition would be more up your alley. It's completely vastly different from the earlier editions, and your experience with the 40k rulesets will not lend you aid here, offering you a totally new experience at least mechanically. Personally I'm not a fan of 3rd edition, but if you do go down that route you'll find it easier to get all the products you need, books and all that jazz or you might get a deal on someone selling their old set. You'll be hard pressed to find a complete physical set of the earlier edition stuff if you plan to play a physical game.

 

As for dnd. Well, for years I used to have the same opinion as Noelyuk. I wouldn't touch it or go near it and my opinion of the system was very vindictive. I had played 3.5 briefly and did not enjoy my experience at all. Then I joined a 5th edition game despite being cautious in doing so. And I have to say, I quite enjoyed it. And I know a few people who are big into their dnd and the collective response I get from them is that 4th edition is the one you should 'forget' about, as if it never existed. Like the 13th floor that nobody ever goes too... Just ignore it. 5th edition it seems clears up a lot of the rule heavy earlier editions and nonsense, and makes it easier to just get down to it and play.

 

Now, I still prefer my Warhammer over dnd and I don't think that bias is ever going to change. But having fun is the reason why we play these games and I certainly can say I had a lot of fun with 5th edition as a player, and am still having a lot of fun as a GM in Warhammer 2nd edition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm mostly going to repeat what Xyd said, from a slightly different point of view. Having played both versions of wfrp and having played a good bit of DnD, mostly what I'll say is, do prepare for something different. Especially if your previous experience is with deathwatch. Wfrp played properly is basically "you've shovelled **** your entire life, prepare to get eaten by beastmen!" Regardless of which version you play. You are a par for the course human versus daemons and beastmen and worse. But it's also full of hilarious cockney background and turnip eating yokels and dark humour. So if it's done right, it's not rosary rattling dark fear, it's disgusting dark comedy. Version 3 is my favourite, as GMing the game is just so much easier for me. But others feel it's lost it's way with the new version. So if you want "the heroes of light versus the dark lords of chaos", then do yourself a favour and mod D&D. If you want "Del-boy and the lads accidentally stop the apocalypse" then this the game for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the responses. I have been watching some reviews on YouTube of 3rd and it looks a bit crazy. That doesn't mean it doesn't look fun, but do people play it as more of a board game or a role playing game?

As for my history I've spent more time in DnD than any other system. I really got burned out on the constant power creep of 3 and 3.5. Which is funny because 4th I found to be a bit of fresh air. Granted when I ran I did house rule some of it such as how fast people recovered.

My biggest issue with DnD has been the whole hit point system just was a bit to much for me. The whole "I'm a 10th level warrior with over 100 hit points RAAAAA" games got the point that players would always kick the door in and swing first with their feeling of invincibility.

I mean I love getting those epic heroic moments in games. But I tend to prefer a bit more grit or realism thrown in. Probably why Shadowrun was always one of my favorites.

Sigh anyway it's a big decision. Unless I go with deathwatch which is enjoyable, I'm going to have to completely re invest.

I am open to trying something radically different with 3rd WHRP. But I'm not really interested in a board game.

But I have narrowed my list down some.

DnD 4th or 5th I enjoyed 4th and could pick it up cheap on eBay if I can find people who play who are actual role players and don't have the encounters mentality like my old group (who were role players) which means most likely 5th.

Shadowrun it's been awhile and looks like 5th is getting a lot of great reviews.

Deathwatch. I love the universe the system can be a blast even if it is clunky and the books are some of the worst formatted books I've ever seen. But I still have the books.

WFRP: looks interesting but wish I could get a demo game in first.

Iron Kingdoms. Love warmachine and hordes and their world. Plus their rules are fantastic but not to sure how well it ports to an rpg.

I've narrowed Rifts out of the equation.

I'm leaning to put DnD out of the equation as well but I'm sure it will be the easiest to find players for. Ohh and I have no interest in pathfinder aka 3.75 as I've said I was sick of 3.5 when I stopped playing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway I've got a little bit of time to make a decision. Until the 40k narrative I'm hosting is over on July 23rd I can't really find time for another game until then. Here is a link to our 40k campaign Facebook page. Ohh and I'm open to online table tops. Just finding a consistent group with some flexibility is key.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1125683067472609/?ti=icl

Edited by computertrucker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if I'm a bit late to the party, but my thoughts are as follows:

WFRP 3rd - I have played this online, nearly weekly for 5 years, and I have absolutely loved it. There are a miriad ways of dying and each one creeps up on you (my last character 'retired' one corruption away from a mutation, one critical away from death and on his way to insanity!) you do feel like your character could die at any moment and you can struggle to kill a lowly goblin. But it because of this danger and 'living on the edge' which makes it so much fun.

As for being like a board game, yes I can totally see how it can come across like that, with cards that need to refresh once you have used them, cards for enemies, actions, equipment, places, wounds, etc, etc... It can feel like a board game or computer game. BUT, the greatest strength of WFRP 3rd is its modularity, everything is easy to include or ignore when playing. If you don't like the insanity system - then leave it out, if you don't like the party sheets - then leave them out, if you don't like all the bits and pieces and cards - then leave them out. And it won't break or ruin anything. Personally, I like all the bits and cards, they really do help me to remember what is going on and all the cards are just a really neat and quick way of getting to the information you need quickly.

DnD 5th - sorry have no experience with this, good or bad. I am about to start a Dark Sun campaign in the 3.5 edition, don't yet know if I like the edition, but the prep for creating my character has been fun and made me really look forward to playing it. This may be the Dark Sun setting, or my DM though, and not the 3.5 rules.

Something else to throw into the 'ring' (there's a pun in this):

Have you ever come across The One Ring RPG, based in Middle Earth? This is a relatively new system (within the last 10 years), but I would thoroughly recommend it. You play as an 'average' hero in Middle Earth, between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Like WFRP, you can very easily die through multiple ways and often you will have to retreat from greater enemies. It is better to survive and be able to do some small part of good, than die a forgotten death against a powerful adversary. I am currently running an online game (spot the link! I don't live near any groups either) and it is going really well (I think). The players, all new to the One Ring, appear to be really enjoying it, and these are the same group that have been enjoying WFRP for the past 5 years. Just though I would bring your attention to this little nugget of a game, as it is definitely worth a look. Check out the website, don't think I would be allowed to mention the company on here, but they are quite small and do a Dr Who based RPG too.

Hope there is some help in these words. Whatever you choose, just make sure you enjoy it! And good luck and hope you regain you lost collections.

Gazery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the responses. I have been watching some reviews on YouTube of 3rd and it looks a bit crazy. That doesn't mean it doesn't look fun, but do people play it as more of a board game or a role playing game?

 

Hi, just need to chime in with Gazery regarding the board game aspect. While the game lends some board game features (and some from MMORPGs) I have found that it actually helps support role playing. Rather than just attacking and roll dice as in several RPGs, you select an action that tells you a little bit how you attack. And the action system, while similar to MMORPGs with cooldowns and struff really make fights more interesting and dynamic than most other RPGs I've played.

 

All the cards and tokens are also handy as references, and support the game and helps it run smoother rather than take over. So I'd say that you do not have to worry that you will playing a board game with RPG aspects. It is a fully fledged RPG, and the system really supports roleplaying (especially the dice).

 

If you want to, there's a Podcast called Reckless Dice where they discuss the mechanics of the game and they also have game sessions recorded that can give you can listen to and get a sense of how the game works. It's on iTunes or you can download it at http://recklessdice.com/. They have a lot of sessions, but in the early ones they talked a lot about the different features of the game, like the dice, action cards and such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you. Will listen to their pod cast as I am driving this week.

I watched a video last night. The dice pools look a bit cumbersome. I'm sure you get used to them. Shadowrun uses dice pools and it's probably my favorite system.

But I have narrowed my list down to 3 if I can find players.

1.whrpg

2. Iron kingdoms rpg

3. Shadowrun

I have DnD as a fallback as I know it's easiest to find players for. But I took deathwatch out, as I'm just 40kd out and need a change of pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did one more shuffle.

Even though I love Shadowrun I really want to run a fantasy setting. So my list of possibles have changed.

WHFRP

Iron Kingdoms

And Dungeons and dragons dark sun.

I also have another question as I'm running this online im planning on using fantasy grounds. Does anyone happen to have a link or know of any good rules modules for fantasy grounds using 3rd?

I have downloaded for the iron kingdoms one and attempted unsuccessfully to parse 4th so if I go with dark sun I may be porting it to 5 th.

But without a good rule set for WHRP it's going to make it a lot more complicated to run.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes someone actually did write a very nice looking mod. I've got it installed in the fantasy rounds now. Still trying to make a decision on what campaign world that I would like to run. It has to be affordable not only for myself but for everybody else as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched a video last night. The dice pools look a bit cumbersome. I'm sure you get used to them. Shadowrun uses dice pools and it's probably my favorite system.

 

Dice pools might be cumbersome to start with, but you get used to it quite quickly. I've played WFRP 3ed with everyting from complete RPG beginners to veteran players, and all agree that it is quite easy to understand the dice pool system. Often the good dice comes from the players character sheet, while the bad dice are added by the GM, so as a player you can often prepare your dice pool (for example in combat) and then just add the negative dice when it is your turn to roll.

 

Many players feel that the dice are among the best things with this game, as you can have a great variety of results. You can succeed with some (or major) drawbacks, fail and still get some benifits and it's not as linear as in many games where it goes fumble-fail-pass-critical. In WFRP 3ed you could for example make a fantastic attack, with lots of damage and criticals but still suffer bad effects yourself. After playing WFRP 3ed for a long time I miss these neuances when playing other RPGs. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, the dice system is fairly quick to get the hang of and adds an absolutely fantastic range to the usual success/failure axis. I remember fondly trying to think of how to interpret exactly what to do with Four success, a critical, and three chaos stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game system looks fun, there's no doubt about it. However while I will make the final decision in the group since on the one running the campaign I'm trying to also kind of put it to a vote with the group. Everyone in the group except for maybe one is a veteran role player , But no one owns the game. Seeing as how we are going to have to all purchase it it has to be sold to them.

Regardless of the group that I am gathering for my campaign I would personally still love to possibly find someone running Warhammer fantasy role-play get a hands-on experience with it possibly through fantasy Brow regardless of the group that I am gathering for my campaign I would personally still love to possibly find someone running Warhammer fantasy role-play get a hands-on experience with it possibly through fantasy grounds.

Regardless of which system we go with I'm going to have to make an investment. As like I said at the beginning I've lost the majority of my books

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on your group. While they be playing online or will they have computers, because the fantasy grounds version of the game is a perfectly good way to play the game. There is enough in the core box for the GM+3 and if you have the adventurers toolkit that should be another person. Having the Players guide, DM's Guide and FGII would be enough to run it online, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's also 13th Age by Pelgrane Press. It takes the best elements from all editions of D&D, plus a ton of indie concepts, and mixes them in a glorious package. It's also quite cheap, as you only need one book (compare with 3e, 4e and 5e where you need at least 3 books.) Converting stuff from 4e is quite easy, so if you have the 4e Dark Sun books, you can run a good campaign with 13th Age.

One of the best games I have ever played, and my go-to fantasy d20 game.

Edited by rabindranath72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add my two scents.

I started playing D&D5e a few months back, online and in person. We are playing old 1st edition modules and the latest campaign from Wizard (something with demons in the underdark...). I like the D&D5 ruleset, simple, focused on advancement and class development without getting bogged down in numbers like past D&D version (which I tried but couldn't like).

That said, I put my finger the other day why I prefer warhammer: the investigation and the going crazy. I was playing Chuthlu recently, a day after a D&D session, and it hits me... We didn't do one fight in Chuthlu, the entire session was RP in character. Contrast that with D&D which is built heavily on combat encounters, where many players go tactical and throw RP out. D&D fights are fast, much faster than WFRP but since there are often several in a session, I feel D&D is too tactical.

Now this is a function of the group as well. I am sure some groups are amazing role players in combat situation, mine isn't. When playing WFRP, it is the same, in combat, we tend to go tactical but there is a lot less combat on WFRP because it is lethal. It also push players to try and avoid combat, thus RP socially first versus drawing weapons.

So, what remains if not combat? Investigation. I feel WFRP is more suited to investigation scenarios than D&D because it includes mechanisms that make failure fun when investigating (insanity, corruption, disease, environments crits) versus D&D where investigation is mostly one or more rolls with RP.

We tried an experiment recently, where we played the first module of WFRP path of the damned using D&D5 ruleset. It was fun, but several times I found myself missing the corruption roll, the disease roll, the lethal combat (although our GM upped the creatures stats to make combat lethal). We RP all of that, pretending to get disease and insanity, but it's nice to have that mechanism (from any WFRP edition),

So, D&D5 to me = fast, tactical, fun for a short time, while WFRP = slow (in that we accomplish less encounters in a session), investigation, longer campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally would avoid WFRPG and its not because I think its a bad game, its just that in order to get a proper (full game) you really almost need the entire set.  You can think of WFRPG as the microtransaction verson of pencil and paper role-playing games.  Everything is designed so that when you buy, you realize.. crap, I also need this other thing.

 

For example if you buy the core set, you are not going to have enough material for more then 2-3 players, definitely not enough dice and you will find that the rules are "skinny" versions of the full game with a tremendous amount left out.

 

In the end you will feel the pull to buy the books.  They are expensive and again while absolutely necessary source material, they do not come with any of the components they reference and playing this game without the components like a traditional role-playing game is a cluster of disorganization.  You really need the components so you will need to game the Gamemaster Kit and the Monster Kit.

 

And even then you still will only have enough stuff to play a game with 2-3 players. Add a 4th, 5th or 6th player and you are going to either have to buy a second core set or adventure kits for each player you add.

 

This game is just not economical at all, especially when you consider that for example Star Wars Edge of the Empire, to get a FULL game going with unlimited amount of players you need to buy 1 book and maybe 2 sets of dice.  That's it.

 

You could quite literally buy 3-4 fantasy RPG's to try them all out for the same cost of getting a single WFRPG game going. 

 

If you have a disposable income though, WFRPG is an amazing game, but if you don't fully buy into it, you will constantly bump your head against disappointment, its kind of an all or nothing deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep an eye on Ebay for a full lots of the game. I've seen a few people selling off their full collections and you can often pick them up at a reasonable price.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you want to play...if you want everything created for you and packaged up nice and neat, you'll likely want to look for a full lot. But if don't mind doing a bit of creative work yourself (ie, printing custom cards and sleeving them etc) then you can get by with a lot less of the 'official' components.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...