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OmegaLeader144

Why do people on here say the T-65 needs to be "fixed"?

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it doesn't need to be fixed it is still a great ship in the game.

I'm sorry to say but your opinion is simply wrong. It's not a great ship, and that's not a matter of opinion. It's backed up by both the math and years of tournament reports.  This is quite frankly not subject to debate or opinion any more than saying 2+2=5.

With Integrated Astro, it becomes a good ship, but is still not a top end ship in the competitive world.

 

Tell that to all of the Scum Y-wings, Scum Headhunters, Scum Large ships, and Imperial Ships I have destroyed with the T-65.

 

I've destroyed nearly every ship by flying it through an asteroid at one point in time or other. It doesn't mean asteroids are competitive ships.

 

I destroyed all of those ships with the T-65 without those ships hitting asteroids or debris.

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I destroyed all of those ships with the T-65 without those ships hitting asteroids or debris.

And plenty of people have destroyed T-65's without losing any of their own ships... That's the problem with trying to base an argument on anecdotal evidence...

 

Your experience is a very, very tiny, in fact meaningless sample compared to every other game played in a given year.  But if you're going to insist that everyone else is wrong and you're right.  Then provide some objective facts to back up your exertion.  List all the tournaments that have T-65's winning the day.  Show us the math that proves the T-65's jousting value makes it efficient for the price.

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With adaptability being the advent of dual cards... what about a card that is s-foils open and closed? This is just something I've been playing with in my head...

 

Action: flip this card over.

 

Title: Rogue Squadron S-Foils (3pts?)

Open, when attacking, if you are in the defender's Primary firing arc, increase your attack value by 1.

Closed, when this side is first revealed perform a free slam action.  Loose all actions on your action bar, gain the slam action.

 

Notice that when open, I did not specifiy primary weapon... would be nice to see torps again in an X-wing.  Also notice that with this title, when s-foils are close, engine upgrades or even this new barrel roll upgrade would be lost as well... trying to add some down side for balance I guess...

 

Thoughts?

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Tell that to all of the Scum Y-wings, Scum Headhunters, Scum Large ships, and Imperial Ships I have destroyed with the T-65.

Anyone can win with almost any ship. But that doesn't change the fact that the ship is subpar. It quite simply costs too much for what it offers, especially in a standard tournament game. That doesn't mean you can't overcome the shortfall, but just because you can do that, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

 

Again, the math behind the game shows that the X-Wing is over priced.  The fact that it rarely shows up in top tables of major tournaments shows this.  The fact that the game's Developers have agreed it needs help shows this as well.

 

The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

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I destroyed all of those ships with the T-65 without those ships hitting asteroids or debris.

And plenty of people have destroyed T-65's without losing any of their own ships... That's the problem with trying to base an argument on anecdotal evidence...

 

Your experience is a very, very tiny, in fact meaningless sample compared to every other game played in a given year.  But if you're going to insist that everyone else is wrong and you're right.  Then provide some objective facts to back up your exertion.  List all the tournaments that have T-65's winning the day.  Show us the math that proves the T-65's jousting value makes it efficient for the price.

 

I don't pay attention to the tournaments, and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

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Peeps love the T-65. Even if they won't admit it. They want to imagine themselves flying in formation towards the Deathstar with Luke and Wedge feeling like they are comparable to them. Generics aren't very forgiving. So we crave a "fix" to help. IMO.

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Peeps love the T-65. Even if they won't admit it. They want to imagine themselves flying in formation towards the Deathstar with Luke and Wedge feeling like they are comparable to them. Generics aren't very forgiving. So we crave a "fix" to help. IMO.

Ok.

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The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

 

So what you're saying is that you and you alone know how to fly the T-65 and people who've won World championships just are clueless.

I don't pay attention to the tournaments

So not only do you have no data to back up you claim, you're going to ignore one of the main sources of objective data.

and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

And on this note I'm done, you clearly are so clueless you can't even understand what we're trying to tell you.

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Arguments used by people who think the T-65 needs a Fix:

 

1) The objective metrics provided by MJ and Mathwing, which put the T-65 slightly below the B-Wing in terms of Jousting, and that's including the 'fix'.

 

2) Years of tournament data showing no T-65s placing very high in tournaments.

 

3) The comments of the designers themselves saying that IA is not 'the fix' and more is to come later.

 

Arguments used by people who think the T-65 is fine:
 

1) "I played a game with a T-65 and I won it."

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Also just a thought a lot of people want to see the T-65 be better because it's the ship the game is named after, it's the ship that means a lot to us nerds and most non Star Wars people can tell you what it is. I believe more then the Falcon it is well loved and played with, I think a lot of us dreamed about being at the Death Star or landing at cloud city, we dream of taking off on an adventure and exploring space. I think in our hearts if we could have a Death Star size board we all would recreated the trench run and use Luke as a way to relive our childhood dreams. I know I am crazy for loving the 65 more then the falcon and I want it to be the first ship as a go to and not the last.

I think the attachment people have for the 65 is what makes us demand it to be better and we want Luke to have a different ablity.

Exactly we want to see x-wing's as often as we see EU and new trilogy fighters.

Most of us have 3+ and would really like them to stop gathering dust on the shelf.

 

Yep. I play the Star Wars game because I love the original Star Wars movies. The titular ship, piloted by some of the movies' most iconic characters, should be competitive.

 

It's suffered immensely from Wave Creep as newer ships and newer upgrade types hit the shelves. The X-Wing was balanced against a pool of about 8 ships (if you assume they were developing all the Wave 1 and 2 stuff together). 6 Waves later, it's just too expensive, or underperforming, for a 100 point 1v1 meta compared to similar ships that will consistently outperform it given equal player skill.

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3) The comments of the designers themselves saying that IA is not 'the fix' and more is to come later.

 

This was never actually said in that interview.  They said that they would be looking and if they felt it necessary, there's still a title available.

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The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

 

So what you're saying is that you and you alone know how to fly the T-65 and people who've won World championships just are clueless.

I don't pay attention to the tournaments

So not only do you have no data to back up you claim, you're going to ignore one of the main sources of objective data.

and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

And on this note I'm done, you clearly are so clueless you can't even understand what we're trying to tell you.

 

(1) I didn't say I was the only one that knows how to fly. I am sure others have figured out the trick. (2) Tournaments are anything but objective, they are based . (3) You were the one asking about jousting value so I gave you an answer. Both can have Ion weapons which ships with Ion weapons pair well with the T-65.

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Last thought

I have play tested 5 rookies saying they are 20 points each, this list is really tough to deal with. 1 point makes a huge difference per ship.

 

Then why is 5K not a thing?

K-wings would need a 3 point reduction and would be too good with slam and 360 primary atks.

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The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

 

So what you're saying is that you and you alone know how to fly the T-65 and people who've won World championships just are clueless.

I don't pay attention to the tournaments

So not only do you have no data to back up you claim, you're going to ignore one of the main sources of objective data.

and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

And on this note I'm done, you clearly are so clueless you can't even understand what we're trying to tell you.

 

(1) I didn't say I was the only one that knows how to fly. I am sure others have figured out the trick. (2) Tournaments are anything but objective, they are based . (3) You were the one asking about jousting value so I gave you an answer. Both can have Ion weapons which ships with Ion weapons pair well with the T-65.

 

 

 

 

The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

 

So what you're saying is that you and you alone know how to fly the T-65 and people who've won World championships just are clueless.

I don't pay attention to the tournaments

So not only do you have no data to back up you claim, you're going to ignore one of the main sources of objective data.

and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

And on this note I'm done, you clearly are so clueless you can't even understand what we're trying to tell you.

 

(1) I didn't say I was the only one that knows how to fly. I am sure others have figured out the trick. (2) Tournaments are anything but objective, they are based . (3) You were the one asking about jousting value so I gave you an answer. Both can have Ion weapons which ships with Ion weapons pair well with the T-65.

 

Be honest. Are you trolling...? There is no other explanation for how you are making arguments that don't make sense and keep restating them as if everyone else is an idiot for not seeing how much sense they make.

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Last thought

I have play tested 5 rookies saying they are 20 points each, this list is really tough to deal with. 1 point makes a huge difference per ship.

 

Then why is 5K not a thing?

K-wings would need a 3 point reduction and would be too good with slam and 360 primary atks.

 

 

He's talking about the scum k-whatever fighter, not the rebel scum k-wing.

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The problem is people don't seem to know how to pair it well with other ships.

 

So what you're saying is that you and you alone know how to fly the T-65 and people who've won World championships just are clueless.

I don't pay attention to the tournaments

So not only do you have no data to back up you claim, you're going to ignore one of the main sources of objective data.

and when it is paired with a B-wing or Y-wing it has good jousting value.

And on this note I'm done, you clearly are so clueless you can't even understand what we're trying to tell you.

 

(1) I didn't say I was the only one that knows how to fly. I am sure others have figured out the trick. (2) Tournaments are anything but objective, they are based . (3) You were the one asking about jousting value so I gave you an answer. Both can have Ion weapons which ships with Ion weapons pair well with the T-65.

 

Be honest. Are you trolling...? There is no other explanation for how you are making arguments that don't make sense and keep restating them as if everyone else is an idiot for not seeing how much sense they make.

 

 

 

Since I have to live with him, and face him, I can say that he uses the T-65 as a flanker instead of a jouster. Basically he tries to get you to go for stronger ships, like Poe and B-wings, and then comes from behind with Wedge. My Scum build tend to be a decent counter (we're pretty even on w/l ratio this year) but I fly tanks with turrets so....

Edited by sf1raptor

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So Omegaleader's entire argument boils down to this:
 

"I can win with them.  The fact that they don't win tournaments doesn't count because I think they're biased despite not offering any actual evidence to the fact."

 

In other words, Omegaleader actually knows the T-65 needs fixing and is afraid to take his super-awesome kills-everything T-65 list to an actual tournament because he'd get his ass handed to him.

 

Prove me wrong.

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So Omegaleader's entire argument boils down to this:

 

"I can win with them.  The fact that they don't win tournaments doesn't count because I think they're biased despite not offering any actual evidence to the fact."

 

In other words, Omegaleader actually knows the T-65 needs fixing and is afraid to take his super-awesome kills-everything T-65 list to an actual tournament because he'd get his ass handed to him.

 

Prove me wrong.

I meant that everyone is biased towards certain ships for example I have a preference towards TIE Interceptors.

Edited by OmegaLeader144

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