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Luijod

Summoned Stone

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I got into a lengthy debate the other day with one of my players regarding the Geomancer class and the limitations of the Summoned Stone.

 

The way I understand it is as follows:

  1. Summoned Stones are familiars considered obstacles that can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes), therefor they follow traditional rules for familiar movement. They treat all special terrain (Water, Lava, Pits, Elevation, Sludge and Hazard) as Water with the exception of Obstacle spaces which they can’t enter.

 

  1. Since they follow the rules for Familiars (NOT Treated as Figures) it stands to reason they can move into and through spaces with figures, friendly and foe alike. They could also stop in such a space correct? A figure can’t stop in an enemy occupied space because it is considered an obstacle, however the Stones are not Familiars considered Figures. Anything except another obstacle terrain space would be fair game? As long as they can count the spaces (No teleporting through Closed Doors, can move through Overgrowth and Portcullis).

 

  1. As obstacles, they can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes) but would ignore things like Overlord cards (unless they trigger on account of an attack targeting/affecting the Stone) Perils, Quest Rules (unless otherwise specifically noted) and Hero and Monster abilities that are not attacks (Ex: No Healing, No Damage converted from Fatigue suffered from Howl)

 

  1. Each attack you (Geomancer) make targeting a monster adjacent to a Summoned Stone gains 1 free surge.

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They abide by the regular rules for movement, except for terrain, so they would not be able to pass through portcullises, unless a new stone was summoned on the other side, using Terracall and one of the skills allowing multiple stones.

 

I believe the Errata once listed that Stones could use an elixir from the Apothecary for healing but I don't know if that's been changed.

 

Each attack the Geomancer makes that come from him and target a monster adjacent to a stone gain the free surge. For example, the free attack granted by Terracall would not get this free surge, but the attack required by Quaking World could.

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Edited your post to make my answer clearer

 

A) They abide by the regular rules for movement, except for terrain, so they would not be able to pass through portcullises, unless a new stone was summoned on the other side, using Terracall and one of the skills allowing multiple stones.

 

B) I believe the Errata once listed that Stones could use an elixir from the Apothecary for healing but I don't know if that's been changed.

 

C) Each attack the Geomancer makes that come from him and target a monster adjacent to a stone gain the free surge. For example, the free attack granted by Terracall would not get this free surge, but the attack required by Quaking World could.

 

A) The rulebook for SoN states that spaces separated by a Portcullis are considered adjacent, therefor it would stand to reason that a non-figure familiar (Ex: Skye, Shadow Soul) would be able to move through the Portcullis just like Overgrowth, no? Closed or Locked Doors would be out of the question because the spaces are not considered adjacent.

 

When activated, a familiar may perform a move action following the same rules as heroes.

 

B) The FAQ/Errata states that Allies and Familiars treated as Figures (Ex:Wolf, Brightblaze, Reanimate) can carry Elixirs. In the case of the Reanimate who can't drink it because it can't recover damage this could still be used as a way to get the Elixir to another Hero, Ally or FtaF who could use it, provided he wasn't destroyed first. Very situational I'd think.

 

C) Precisely my point, the card states you, meaning the Geomancer, and Terracall is the only Skill card in the class deck that let's the Familiar itself preform the attack. Any other Hero, Ally or Familiar would not gain the free surge as is written on the Familiar card according to my interpretation.

 

Btw, I really enjoy this class, really good synergy with Seer Kel among others.

Edited by Luijod

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A) Portcullis are considered adjacent when making attacks and counting spaces but you cannot move through them, as they are considered like a closed door.

 

C) Earthen Anguish would likewise be unaffected, because the target is your own stone. having a stone adjacent to your target stone would not work, as the wording on the stone card states "monster"

Molten fury would have to attack a target determined from a stone and adjacent to that stone or another one, which could result in blasting your own stones

 

 

Btw, I really enjoy the Geomancer as well, especially with Quellen, since it allows a very good mix of utility powers and attack.

 

A geomancer, depending on his mix, can make crowd control attacks, attack around corners, teleport, block passages, move monsters...

and then you can vary the specific effects based on the Weapon you have equipped

Edited by Alarmed

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Luijod- You are mostly correct, but as you stated, the Summoned Stone is an Obstacle, not a figure. Therefore, because it is not a figure, it doesn't treat heroes as friendly figures- they cannot move through them, just as figures cannot move through them. With mostly any figure, they cannot occupy the same space at any given time. 

 

This is the reason why heroes can attack them, because it's possible the stone could be in the way in any given situation. This is also why OL cards don't effect them since they are not targeted figures. 

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Core Rulebook, Page 17

 

When activated, a familiar may perform a move action following the same rules as heroes.

 

This is where I messed up, you are indeed correct Alarmed, thanks!

Edited by Luijod

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Luijod- You are mostly correct, but as you stated, the Summoned Stone is an Obstacle, not a figure. Therefore, because it is not a figure, it doesn't treat heroes as friendly figures- they cannot move through them, just as figures cannot move through them. With mostly any figure, they cannot occupy the same space at any given time. 

 

This is the reason why heroes can attack them, because it's possible the stone could be in the way in any given situation. This is also why OL cards don't effect them since they are not targeted figures. 

 

OMG, what a dunce I am!!!

 

How did I not catch that when I was typing up my initial post? It's so very obvious now, the answer was in the question! Since the Stones are technically neutral, there is no friendly figure to move through!

 

Even though you were incorrect, by reminding me that Familiars use the same movement rules as Heroes (with the exception on how they handle terrain) I can see where I got confused regarding the portcullis.

 

Thanks Omnislash024!

Edited by Luijod

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The Summoned Stone is an obstacle/Familiar. As a Familiar, it may perform a move action as if it were a hero. So in this case, (changing what I said previously) normally if it is moving, it can walk through heroes. It cannot walk through a portcullis ( because heroes cannot walk through them. 

 

However- The Geomancer him/herself can PLACE a Stone on the other side of a portcullis if they are able to at the time. 

 

Of course to confirm this, I think our resident rules expert (Zaltyre) can probably clarify this. 

Edited by Omnislash024

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The summoned stone is first and foremost an obstacle. Unlike other non-figure familiars (skye, shadow soul, pico) the stone DOES block movement and line of sight.

Familiar figures (reanimate, wolf) also block movement/LOS but can move through hero spaces because they are friendly figures.

Summoned stones are not figures, therefore cannot be friendly figures. Not only can heroes not move through them, but because they are obstacles, you cannot even count spaces through summoned stones.

Otherwise, most of what is in this thread's first post checks out.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Core Rulebook, Page 17

 

When activated, a familiar may perform a move action following the same rules as heroes.

 

This is where I messed up, you are indeed correct Alarmed, thanks!

 

 

The Summoned Stone is an obstacle/Familiar. As a Familiar, it may perform a move action as if it were a hero. So in this case, (changing what I said previously) normally if it is moving, it can walk through heroes. It cannot walk through a portcullis ( because heroes cannot walk through them. 

 

However- The Geomancer him/herself can PLACE a Stone on the other side of a portcullis if they are able to at the time. 

 

Of course to confirm this, I think our resident rules expert (Zaltyre) can probably clarify this. 

 

 

The summoned stone is first and foremost an obstacle. Unlike other non-figure familiars (skye, shadow soul, pico) the stone DOES block movement and line of sight.

Familiar figures (reanimate, wolf) also block movement/LOS but can move through hero spaces because they are friendly figures.

Summoned stones are not figures, therefore cannot be friendly figures. Not only can heroes not move through them, but because they are obstacles, you cannot even count spaces through summoned stones.

Otherwise, most of what is in this thread's first post checks out.

 

There is one thing that is bothering me and that's the first quote from myself taken from the rulebook.

 

Familiars, all of them regardless of being figures, can perform a move action following the rules for Heroes. Those that are not treated as figures have additional exceptions for special terrain (any non-obstacle terrain is treated as water). Perhaps I'm missing something, but following RAW doesn't it seems like Summoned Stones follow the movement rules for Familiars NOT treated as figures? Wouldn't that be the default ruling?

 

Core Rule Book, Page 18

 

Normally, a space containing a familiar does not block line of sight or

movement, unless otherwise noted on its Familiar card. Any figure may

end its movement in a space with a familiar. Likewise, a familiar may end

its movement in a space containing a figure.

 

So clearly the Summoned Stone is a familiar treated as an obstacle. But there is no ruling I can find as to how said obstacle moves into, through and out of spaces. What is abundantly clear is no figure or familiar can move into the Summoned Stone's space because IT is an obstacle space.

 

Again, unless I have really screwed up reading the rules provided, or there is some errata I'm not aware of, it seems these Stones can move about the map like Skye and the Shadow Soul, while being attacked like the Reanimate, Wolf & Brightblaze (Unlike the other FTaF it can also be targeted by Heroes). It can not move through Doors & Portcullis, but should be able to move through figures...

 

At any rate I've submitted this to FFG for clarification, will post the answer as soon as I get it.

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That "unless otherwise noted on its familiar card" is super important. The summoned stone does get a move action, but IT IS AN OBSTACLE. That is the "otherwise noted."

 

So first of, thanks for replying and not letting this thread die yet.

 

Second, and this just for clarification and my own sanity not looking to dispute for the sake of disputing:

 

Yes that's a very good observation that I again overlooked, "unless otherwise noted on its familiar card"

 

Now it's abundantly clear that the stone is an Obstacle, and any space it occupies is essentially the same a a space on the tile with the solid red lines.

 

Heroes can not pass through it (Exemptions: Zyla) nor  Monsters (Exemptions: those with Fly ability). My confusion is really centered on the Stone's ability to move itself.

 

My understanding is it's able to treat Special Terrain (except for other obstacles) as Water spaces. As per the rules it would follow Hero's movement rules. You're saying because it is a Obstacle that it can't move through other figures? I really hate to nitpick but I can't find that in the rulebook.

 

Basically nothing, with few exemptions, can pass through the Summoned Stone's space. But the Stone's ability to move through other figures itself, I feel, is up for debate or interpretation, because the only other provision available for Familiar movement is to treat Familiar Figures with the movement rules for other Figures.

 

I feel like either I'm really dumb and don't get or see it in the book, or that it's been written vaguely, what are the rules for Obstacle movement? Is to be interpreted that it being an Obstacle means it can not pass through other figures? Is that where I'm losing the syntax? Spanish is my first language, I've grown up speaking and reading English but there are still times where I get my wires crossed as it were because my inner voice is Spanish.

 

I know it says Obstacles spaces and spaces occupied by non-friendly figures are considered BLOCKED SPACES. Non friendlies can not pass through such spaces.

 

But for the life of me reading the rulebook again and again it seems that Summoned Stones should be able to pass through spaces occupied by Heroes since when it pertains to movement they (Heroes) should be considered friendly figures. While clearly, because the Familiar card states that The Stone is an obstacle, then other familiars and figures can not pass through the Summoned Stone's space (Exemptions being Zyla & Monsters with Fly), not even another Summoned Stone.

 

Summoned stone familiars:

The Geomancer class has access to skills that allow him to

summon and control Summoned Stone familiars. These

familiars follow all rules for familiars (see “Familiars” on page 17

of the Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition rulebook),

with exceptions described on the Summoned Stone Familiar

card. Page. 4, LotW Rulebook

 

Should this be in the FAQ/Errata? Am I really a dunce, or is it just something that's poorly written and needs clarification. I can understand the intention being that the stone is a solid, moving obstacle that must be destroyed in order to get past it. But it seems to me that the rulebook is saying it has the movement capabilities of a standard, non-figure, Familiar while being an obstacle a/k/a blocked space to everyone else. Am I crazy???

Edited by Luijod

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An empty space is a space which blocks neither movement nor line of sight. A blocked space, by contrast, blocks movement and/or LOS.

Anything that blocks movement itself can never end its movement in anything but an empty space, regardless of alignment (hero, monster, etc).

Familiars do not inherently block movement or line of sight (spaces containing some familiars might be empty, like shadow soul space). They do inherently treat all terrain (pit, sludge, lava, hazard, maybr crumbling-I don't remember) as water.

Familiar figures follow hero movement rules-it's true- but this has nothing to do with the familiar label. It has everything to do with "treated as a hero figure" because while no figure can end its movement in a blocked space, friendly figures may move through each other. All hero figures are friendly to other hero figures, just as monsters are friendly to other monsters.

At this point I must say (can't stress this enough) summoned stones are not figures. Therefore, they do not treat heroes as friendly figures, and heroes do not treat them as friendly figures. Therefore:

-no mutual movement

-goblins cannot scamper through stones

-tomble can't get dice from a stone

-wildlander's LOS is alwaus blocked by a stone, even with "Eagle Eyes."

That is, yes, stones get some of the movement rules of the renanimate and wolf- namely, those which correspond to being a familiar. However, it does not inherit familiar-treated-as-figure movement rules. Rather, it inherits obstacle movement rules- it moves through nothing, nothing moves through it.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Rules Question:
Hi Some questions about the conjurer class. A summoned stone is affected by the hazard / pit spaces ? (taking damage, cannot spend movement points in the pit, sludge, etc) And being an obstacle , the summoned stone cannot move through friendly figures, correct ?

 

A Summoned Stone is not a figure, and so treats all other terrain (other than obstacles) as if it were water terrain just like other familiars that are not treated as figures. Rules as written, the Summoned Stone can move through friendly and enemy figures, as well as stop in their spaces. However I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates some strange situations (figures occupying obstacles), so the next FAQ will include the following clarification: Summoned Stones can move through friendly figures, they cannot move through enemy figures, and they cannot end their movement in a space with a figure.

 

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

Edited by kraisto

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Rules Question:

Hi Some questions about the conjurer class. A summoned stone is affected by the hazard / pit spaces ? (taking damage, cannot spend movement points in the pit, sludge, etc) And being an obstacle , the summoned stone cannot move through friendly figures, correct ?

 

A Summoned Stone is not a figure, and so treats all other terrain (other than obstacles) as if it were water terrain just like other familiars that are not treated as figures. Rules as written, the Summoned Stone can move through friendly and enemy figures, as well as stop in their spaces. However I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates some strange situations (figures occupying obstacles), so the next FAQ will include the following clarification: Summoned Stones can move through friendly figures, they cannot move through enemy figures, and they cannot end their movement in a space with a figure.

 

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

I must say that i agreed Zaltyre point of view, more particularly that summoned stones not being figures and being obstacles weren't not able to move through friendly figures, and now i am a bit puzzled. :wacko:

Why in hell would an obstacle be able to move through figures ? Not logical at all.

As i understand it summoned stones are in reality familiars treated as heroes figures for movement (other heroes interaction not being allowed / with the particulrity that scampered do not work on them).

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Why in hell would an obstacle be able to move through figures ? Not logical at all.

 

Take avalanche as example. It shouldn´t have any problem moving through space that contains hiker figures. :D

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An empty space is a space which blocks neither movement nor line of sight. A blocked space, by contrast, blocks movement and/or LOS.

Anything that blocks movement itself can never end its movement in anything but an empty space, regardless of alignment (hero, monster, etc).

Familiars do not inherently block movement or line of sight (spaces containing some familiars might be empty, like shadow soul space). They do inherently treat all terrain (pit, sludge, lava, hazard, maybr crumbling-I don't remember) as water.

Familiar figures follow hero movement rules-it's true- but this has nothing to do with the familiar label. It has everything to do with "treated as a hero figure" because while no figure can end its movement in a blocked space, friendly figures may move through each other. All hero figures are friendly to other hero figures, just as monsters are friendly to other monsters.

At this point I must say (can't stress this enough) summoned stones are not figures. Therefore, they do not treat heroes as friendly figures, and heroes do not treat them as friendly figures. Therefore:

-no mutual movement

-goblins cannot scamper through stones

-tomble can't get dice from a stone

-wildlander's LOS is alwaus blocked by a stone, even with "Eagle Eyes."

That is, yes, stones get some of the movement rules of the renanimate and wolf- namely, those which correspond to being a familiar. However, it does not inherit familiar-treated-as-figure movement rules. Rather, it inherits obstacle movement rules- it moves through nothing, nothing moves through it.

 

On the bit about the "no mutual movement", though - they may not be figures, but they move as heroes, and heroes can move through other heroes.

 

That being said, heroes expressly cannot end their movement on top of another hero, so in regards to the issue as to whether the stones can end their turn on top of a hero, regardless of whether it's an obstacle or not, the point is meaningless.

 

But it would seem to me that stones can move through heroes (because it moves as a hero) but heroes cannot move through the stones (because the stones are obstacles).

 

Or did I misunderstand what you meant by "mutual movement"?

Edited by Luckmann

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Rules Question:

 

A Summoned Stone is not a figure, and so treats all other terrain (other than obstacles) as if it were water terrain just like other familiars that are not treated as figures. Rules as written, the Summoned Stone can move through friendly and enemy figures, as well as stop in their spaces. However I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates some strange situations (figures occupying obstacles), so the next FAQ will include the following clarification: Summoned Stones can move through friendly figures, they cannot move through enemy figures, and they cannot end their movement in a space with a figure.

 

 

So know if i understand it well we have stones that can move through friendly figures but not ennemy figures. Yet do friendly figures can move through summoned stones ? For me it was not possible but with that answer i am not so sure anymore.

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It may be a bit confusing , but you need to think that they are primarily familiars and apply all the rules for them and secondly applies the "obstacle" characteristic.

Edited by kraisto

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It may be a bit confusing , but you need to think that they are primarily familiars and apply all the rules for them and secondly applies the "object" characteristic.

 

Correct, all Familiars follow the rules for Familiars as RAW indicates. Familiars treated as figures have exceptions to these rules as stated in the section devoted to them in the core rulebook.

 

Like my original argument, pedantic as it may have sounded, RAW would indicate that Summoned Stones would follow the standard Familiar rules (with exceptions written on their Familiar cards) since they themselves are not considered figures.

 

I received a very similar response yesterday

 

 

Rules Question:

Hello again! I got into a lengthy debate the other day with one of my players regarding the Geomancer class and the limitations of the Summoned Stone. The way I understand it is as follows:

 

1. Summoned Stones are familiars considered obstacles that can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes), therefor they follow traditional rules for familiar movement. which is to say they move like Heroes with the following exceptions. They treat all special terrain (Water, Lava, Pits, Elevation, Sludge and Hazard) as Water with the exception of Obstacle spaces which they can’t enter.

 

2. Since they follow the rules for Familiars (NOT Treated as Figures) it stands to reason they can move into and through spaces with friendly figures. What about enemy figures? Heroes and Familiars treated as figures can’t move through an enemy occupied space because it is considered an obstacle, however the Stones are not Familiars considered Figures. Anything except another obstacle terrain space would be fair game? As long as they can count the spaces and said spaces are adjacent? (Example: Skye, Shadow Soul, Pico)

 

3. As obstacles, they can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes) but would ignore things like Overlord cards (unless they trigger on account of an attack targeting/affecting the Stone) Perils, Quest Rules (unless otherwise specifically noted) and Hero and Monster abilities that are not attacks Ex: No Healing from Prayer of Healing or Elixirs, No Damage converted from Fatigue suffered from Howl)

 

4. Each attack you (Geomancer) make targeting a monster adjacent to a Summoned Stone gains 1 free surge. No other Hero gains this free surge, and the attack granted by Terracall is made by one of the active stones itself therefor it can not gain the free surge even if one stone is attacking a monster adjacent to another stone.

 

 

Hey Luijod,

 
1) Yes, you understand this correctly.
 
2) You understand correctly and rules as written the Summoned Stones should be able to move through enemy figures and even stop movement in their space. However, I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates strange cases where a figure shares a space with an obstacle. Therefore a Summoned Stone could move through a friendly figure and could not move through an enemy figure. The Summoned Stone could not end its movement in a figure’s space. These changes will be reflected in the next FAQ.
 
3) You got it.
 
4) Yes, exactly.
 
Thanks for playing!
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

 

I finally got one over on Master Zalty! :P:D:lol:^_^

 

Naaah, all kidding aside, this was bugging the hell out of me, and I think it's awesome that everyone's contribution to this thread has helped point out an oversight in the rules which will be corrected on the next FAQ/Errata update!

 

This really opens up some tactical decisions for Summoned Stone placement.

Edited by Luijod

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Rules Question:

Hi Some questions about the conjurer class. A summoned stone is affected by the hazard / pit spaces ? (taking damage, cannot spend movement points in the pit, sludge, etc) And being an obstacle , the summoned stone cannot move through friendly figures, correct ?

 

A Summoned Stone is not a figure, and so treats all other terrain (other than obstacles) as if it were water terrain just like other familiars that are not treated as figures. Rules as written, the Summoned Stone can move through friendly and enemy figures, as well as stop in their spaces. However I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates some strange situations (figures occupying obstacles), so the next FAQ will include the following clarification: Summoned Stones can move through friendly figures, they cannot move through enemy figures, and they cannot end their movement in a space with a figure.

 

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

I must say that i agreed Zaltyre point of view, more particularly that summoned stones not being figures and being obstacles weren't not able to move through friendly figures, and now i am a bit puzzled. :wacko:

Why in hell would an obstacle be able to move through figures ? Not logical at all.

As i understand it summoned stones are in reality familiars treated as heroes figures for movement (other heroes interaction not being allowed / with the particulrity that scampered do not work on them).

 

 

I hear you, when Zaltyre laid it out for me it made sense and I was playing the stones in this fashion.

 

But by the same logic, why would the stones be able to move into lava spaces without taking damage?

 

Thematically speaking I liken it to how you are able to shoot around obstacle spaces and figures if you're figure is placed diagonally if you have LoS (Like the LoS example from the core rulebook).

 

DJ01_Rulebook_P12-LoS-example.png

 

Thematically speaking:

 

The Stone's artwork, and the fact it has a movement action like other familiars, suggests to me it hovers because of the Geomancer's magic. It can be firmly set in place to block monsters LoS and movement and it can hover through spaces with Heroes and other Familiars because they can duck out of the way momentarly to let it pass over and around them without them actually leaving their respective space.

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Rules Question:

Hi Some questions about the conjurer class. A summoned stone is affected by the hazard / pit spaces ? (taking damage, cannot spend movement points in the pit, sludge, etc) And being an obstacle , the summoned stone cannot move through friendly figures, correct ?

 

A Summoned Stone is not a figure, and so treats all other terrain (other than obstacles) as if it were water terrain just like other familiars that are not treated as figures. Rules as written, the Summoned Stone can move through friendly and enemy figures, as well as stop in their spaces. However I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates some strange situations (figures occupying obstacles), so the next FAQ will include the following clarification: Summoned Stones can move through friendly figures, they cannot move through enemy figures, and they cannot end their movement in a space with a figure.

 

Thanks for playing,

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

It's super-frustrating that you send a question in and instantly get a response, while I've sent multiple questions two weeks ago that have gone unanswered.

Unless I misunderstand, and that's actually the response to an old question.

It may be a bit confusing , but you need to think that they are primarily familiars and apply all the rules for them and secondly applies the "object" characteristic.

Correct, all Familiars follow the rules for Familiars as RAW indicates. Familiars treated as figures have exceptions to these rules as stated in the section devoted to them in the core rulebook.

Like my original argument, pedantic as it may have sounded, RAW would indicate that Summoned Stones would follow the standard Familiar rules (with exceptions written on their Familiar cards) since they themselves are not considered figures.

I received a very similar response yesterday

Rules Question:

Hello again! I got into a lengthy debate the other day with one of my players regarding the Geomancer class and the limitations of the Summoned Stone. The way I understand it is as follows:

1. Summoned Stones are familiars considered obstacles that can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes), therefor they follow traditional rules for familiar movement. which is to say they move like Heroes with the following exceptions. They treat all special terrain (Water, Lava, Pits, Elevation, Sludge and Hazard) as Water with the exception of Obstacle spaces which they can’t enter.

2. Since they follow the rules for Familiars (NOT Treated as Figures) it stands to reason they can move into and through spaces with friendly figures. What about enemy figures? Heroes and Familiars treated as figures can’t move through an enemy occupied space because it is considered an obstacle, however the Stones are not Familiars considered Figures. Anything except another obstacle terrain space would be fair game? As long as they can count the spaces and said spaces are adjacent? (Example: Skye, Shadow Soul, Pico)

3. As obstacles, they can be targeted and affected by an attack (even from Heroes) but would ignore things like Overlord cards (unless they trigger on account of an attack targeting/affecting the Stone) Perils, Quest Rules (unless otherwise specifically noted) and Hero and Monster abilities that are not attacks Ex: No Healing from Prayer of Healing or Elixirs, No Damage converted from Fatigue suffered from Howl)

4. Each attack you (Geomancer) make targeting a monster adjacent to a Summoned Stone gains 1 free surge. No other Hero gains this free surge, and the attack granted by Terracall is made by one of the active stones itself therefor it can not gain the free surge even if one stone is attacking a monster adjacent to another stone.

Hey Luijod,

1) Yes, you understand this correctly.

2) You understand correctly and rules as written the Summoned Stones should be able to move through enemy figures and even stop movement in their space. However, I do not believe this was the intent of the Summoned Stone and it creates strange cases where a figure shares a space with an obstacle. Therefore a Summoned Stone could move through a friendly figure and could not move through an enemy figure. The Summoned Stone could not end its movement in a figure’s space. These changes will be reflected in the next FAQ.

3) You got it.

4) Yes, exactly.

Thanks for playing!

Kara Centell-Dunk

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

I finally got one over on Master Zalty! :P:D:lol:^_^

Naaah, all kidding aside, this was bugging the hell out of me, and I think it's awesome that everyone's contribution to this thread has helped point out an oversight in the rules which will be corrected on the next FAQ/Errata update!

This really opens up some tactical decisions for Summoned Stone placement.

I'm not sure I agree with the answer to the Rules Question, although if it's added to the Errata for clarification, that'd be great. Like I said earlier, Summoned Stones move as heroes, and heroes are expressly forbidden to stop in occupied spaces.

To me, it goes like this:

Familiars are figures that can stop in allied spaces unless otherwise noted.

It is noted that Summoned Stones are not figures, but obstacles, and behave as obstacles.

It is also noted that Summoned Stones can move as heroes. It is further noted that the exception to this is that they treat all special terrain (sans other obstacles) as water.

Heroes expressly cannot stop in occupied spaces.

Thus it stands to reason to me that Rules as Written, Summoned Stones can move through allied figures, since they move as heroes, but other allied figures cannot move through Summoned Stones, because they are Obstacles, not figures.

And I'm pretty fine with that, really; I'm imagining that Summoned Stones are immobile, blocky objects hovering around; they could easily be considered moving past an ally in the same way one ally passes another, but would not budge to make space for a fellow ally wanting to move through it's space, because it's just a bloody stone, it's not sentient and it's got terrible situational awareness.

Edited by Luckmann

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No, Heroes can't move through stones.

 

It's the Stone that can move through Heroes.

 

Stones use Familiar rules for movement, as per RAW, which means that because of an oversight from FFG they can move through figures and end in spaces with them.

 

That was not the intent as stated by Kara.

 

Therefore, until the FAQ/Errate gets a new update I think we can all agree that Summoned Stones can:

 

1. Move through spaces occupied by Heroes and other Familiars that are NOT another Summoned Stone.

 

2. Can not move through blocked spaces, be it special terrain and/or enemy figures.

 

3. Treat all special terrain that is not an obstacle space as a water space (cost 2 MP to enter).

 

4. Are not Defeated on Hazard/Lava spaces if they end their turn there. Also can freely move out of a Pit space.

 

5. Are obstacles spaces to all Heroes, Monsters, and Familiars unless specifically stated on that H/M/F's card.

 

skye.png

 

Skye being the only notable exception I can think of, off the top of my head, as it ignores the effects of terrain, Skye and a Summoned Stone should be able to share a space on the map. Thematically the Falcon can fly over everything else. I fee Skye is undervalued by some as a Familiar, it gives all Heroes a +2 Range bonus and Vyrah gets a +1 Damage bonus on his rolls if he discards him after rolling his attack dice. He would make a pretty wicked Bounty Hunter or Wildlander.

 

 

Edit: I think the Shadow Soul may also be able to share spaces with the Stones

 

pic2026923.png

Edited by Luijod

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I'm submitting an additional rules question to clear up my own misunderstanding. Otherwise, I'm glad we've got a response on this. Luckmann, don't take it personally. The fact is that FFG can't answer rules questions every day- so if you're submitting a question just before questions are being answered, you might have a very short wait. If you submit a question right AFTER some questions have been answered, you might be waiting until the next time rules questions are addressed. I don't know how often answers are sent out, but that's my best guess as to an explanation. 

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