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Professor Tanhauser

righteous fury/tearing question.

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I hope no one throws a plasma grenade at me for this, but I have a question. If a weapon with the tearing quality makes a righteous fury level hit, does the tearing rule apply to the righteous fury die? I'm not sure. I know that righteous fury really got toned down in the errata abf I geberaaly ubderstasbd and approve of the scale down on RF damage, but then again tearing wasn't dialed down and I wonder if allowing a trari g weapon to use the teasring rule on a RF die would be fair.

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I'm pretty certain Tearing is just a property of how the weapon damage is rolled, whereas RF is just "add an extra d10 of damage." 

 

For example, I'm pretty certain an accurate tearing weapon (with say 1d10 base damage die) that managed a result of getting +1d10 damage from accurate isn't going to be rolling 4d10 drop two lowest, but rather 3d10 drop lowest. I'd apply that same line of reasoning with RF. Tearing is just giving the base damage of the weapon an extra d10 to roll, and then drop the lowest (once). It doesn't scale with the amount of damage dice being rolled.

 

If I recall, I don't think DW die it but rather DH2e, the extra die from Tearing can't even proc RF now (or at least its Accurate can't proc RF, I know that). DW's errata is just that it doesn't deal -full- weapon damage, which was pretty ridiculous at the time.

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Specific wording on tearing (DW Core P144) is that you roll an extra damage die and drop the lowest result. So you're rolling 2D10 for a chain sword and 2D5 for a chain knife (yes they do exist, mostly for humans though). For a Chainfist which is already 2D10 at base you are only rolling a single extra die so thats 3D10 and drop the single lowest result of all three and it would not give you an extra two.

 

Now for Righteous Fury (p245) is (assuming you confirm) an extra damage roll. So I'd argue given the tearing rule, it's the same as another damage roll, so your 2D10 for chainsword or 3 for a chainfist and dropping the extra.

 

RF rules have changed anyway from Black Crusade onwards through OW and DH2 meaning that instead of extra damage die, if your initial attack and damage roll would have caused damage to the target in excess of their armour and toughness you roll a 1D5 on the critical damage table for that location and damage type and apply the result. The target is not in critical damage but it leaves a lasting mark. If it would not have exceeded this, do a single guaranteed wound. This I like because it means it creates lasting effects on your opponent rather than just clubbing the hell out of them with no visible consequences.

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@Calgor:

 

They changed the wording in the errata:

 

 

Righteous Fury (page 245): The sentence “If that second
attack hits, the attacker may make an additional Damage roll and add
it to the Damage total” should change to “If that second attack hits,
the attacker may roll one additional Damage dice (1d10) and add it
to the Damage total.” The Example should read: “Helgath has hit a
heretic with his combat knife and proceeds to make his Damage roll. A
combat knife deals 1d10+2 points of Damage, plus 10 for Helgath’s
Strength Bonus (modified by his power armour) of 10. Helgath rolls
1d10 and gets a 10 and then adds 12 for a total of 22. In addition, as
his dice result was a 10, his attack is also a possible Righteous Fury!
Helgath then makes a second attack roll identical to his first, which is
a Weapon Skill Test using his Weapon Skill of 45. Helgath rolls a 22,
which is a hit! He now rolls one additional Damage dice and gets a
5. Helgath’s Damage total for this attack is 27 (22+5). The Emperor
has truly smiled upon Helgath this day.”

 

 

As a side note, Flesh Render adds another D10 to tearing, so e.g. with a Chainsword you'd roll 3D10 and pick the highest/drop the two lowest.

Edited by Avdnm

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@Calgor:

 

They changed the wording in the errata:

 

 

Righteous Fury (page 245): The sentence “If that second
attack hits, the attacker may make an additional Damage roll and add
it to the Damage total” should change to “If that second attack hits,
the attacker may roll one additional Damage dice (1d10) and add it
to the Damage total.” The Example should read: “Helgath has hit a
heretic with his combat knife and proceeds to make his Damage roll. A
combat knife deals 1d10+2 points of Damage, plus 10 for Helgath’s
Strength Bonus (modified by his power armour) of 10. Helgath rolls
1d10 and gets a 10 and then adds 12 for a total of 22. In addition, as
his dice result was a 10, his attack is also a possible Righteous Fury!
Helgath then makes a second attack roll identical to his first, which is
a Weapon Skill Test using his Weapon Skill of 45. Helgath rolls a 22,
which is a hit! He now rolls one additional Damage dice and gets a
5. Helgath’s Damage total for this attack is 27 (22+5). The Emperor
has truly smiled upon Helgath this day.”

 

 

As a side note, Flesh Render adds another D10 to tearing, so e.g. with a Chainsword you'd roll 3D10 and pick the highest/drop the two lowest.

 

Ah, changed it to a fixed extra D10 rather than oodles of extra damage. Again, give me the BC/OW onwards methods of resolving critical damage any day of the week over Deathwatch. :/

 

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Yeah, OK so tearing doesn't affect the rf die.

According to the grot loving xenophile heretic RF has been completely redone in DH2. I kind of agree with what the greenskin filth said re the changes to rf effects on one hand as it makes rf more than just another d10 damage. Still sometimes you just want to knock more HPs off a target to kill it quicker. Aldo how would the new RF rule work with necrons?

For myself I might make rf work as is against 'mook' level enemies, just doing more damage to kill them quicker as mook level enemies aren't worth keeping track of injuries on. More powerful enemies that are smaller in number may be worth it.

Edited by Professor Tanhauser

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