Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
markcsoul

Are firesprays lacking compared to the other large ships?

Recommended Posts

I'll start out by saying I LOVE the firespray.  It's been my favorite ship in the game for quite some time now.

 

That being said, it's clearly the least used large ship in the game currently.  For evidence go to the regionals thread.  Imperial firesprays are basically non existent, and the scum firesprays don't seem to get much play outside of boba (mainly to get him at PS 10).

 

So why is this?  It's not a bad ship by any means, my success with using them can attest to that.  They do suffer a bit from the "x-wing syndrome" in that they are good at a lot of things but not really great at anything.

 

They don't have a 360 turret, can't barrel roll or boost, only have 1 crew slot, no systems slot, and have 2 agility which is often the worst agility value to have.

 

So what's needed to "fix" them, or at least give them more play?  More pilots wouldn't hurt, but I don't think that's the answer necessarily.  They could definitely use a better title, they have 2 and both are mediocre at best.  They have plenty of good offensive options so that's probably fine as is, but they could use help on defense.

 

Personally I'd like a Tie/D type fix.  A small cost reduction when not using any of your secondary weapon slots, as well as a possible free evade for certain maneuvers.

 

A couple other ideas would be adding a crew slot for every secondary weapon slot not in use, or a title that gives you the system slot.

 

Any other ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're fine. 

 

Imperial Boba had a bit of a resurgence during Store Championships. Scum Boba has had some success as well. The rear arc is a tool that takes some getting used to. I personally am taking my Ace hunter Scum Boba to a tournament on Sunday. I've seen what Boba can do with an Autoblaster to a TIE. It will be fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's temporary. Scum players are overusing new toys they get with Wave8 and loaded Dengar or Tel Trevura is filling basically the same spot in roosters as Boba Fett/Kath Scarlett.

I currently use Boba Fett tho, with some success (#2 in swiss, 1/4 final in last regionals in Poland week ago) as I think he has some advantages over Dengar so it fits better to my build with Bossk.

So FS31 is fine and competitive, but there is new "hot stuff" around slightly overshadowing it:)

Edited by Oldpara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're a couple points overpriced in a meta that isn't favoring jousters - especially not hull heavy ships with not quite enough agility to jink to safety CSS TLTs, or enough beef to ignore triple torpedoes.

A couple points isn't enough to kill a large ship of course, but it's enough to hurt all but their top builds.

What do they need? Either a new niche, or more beef. Something to emphasise their attack and 2agi, perhaps - a kallus for all would work well, for instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not largely so. They are not exactly setting the meta on fire. I suppose we'll eventually get some new spray paint on one and some new imperial and scum pilots to shore up anything truely lacking. Not bad for a wave 2 ship. Sadly wave 2 was long long ago, in a meta far far away.

Edited by Rakky Wistol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My main concern with the firespray is the Dial. It is really easy to be out of the fight for a turn or two after the first pass. One way to avoid that is going slow, but then you will be vurnerable to concentrated fire due to the 2 agility.

 

But Kath with HLC and Dengar is not only fun, but also very accurate! PS9 with minimum of 4-dice each turn in 2 directions is nice.

 

What relaly bums me out is the 2 titles, which are not that different from each other, especially now with extra munitions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jumpmasters r the new big ship for scum and they are cheap. the firespray name pilots for both imperials and scum r expensive. id like to see a fix that strengthens the ship and or adds versatility such as a free barrel roll.

Boost would be more in line with how the ship and its drive looks, and also it would not simply be a copy of the JM5k.

My main concern with the firespray is the Dial. It is really easy to be out of the fight for a turn or two after the first pass. One way to avoid that is going slow, but then you will be vurnerable to concentrated fire due to the 2 agility.

 

But Kath with HLC and Dengar is not only fun, but also very accurate! PS9 with minimum of 4-dice each turn in 2 directions is nice.

 

What relaly bums me out is the 2 titles, which are not that different from each other, especially now with extra munitions.

What's wrong with the dial? The only thing it lacks are 1 hard turns and it has 2 K-turns to choose from (as its only red maneuvers), I would not call that a "problem dial".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like using a duel fire spray list with kath and emon and go crazy with bombs, it's beaten a imperial ace, fat Han and brobot list but I haven't had a chance to try it against scouts yet, emon just screws with your opponent because of all the options he gets for where he can place the bombs and kath at ps9 can kick out a good deal of damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

jumpmasters r the new big ship for scum and they are cheap. the firespray name pilots for both imperials and scum r expensive. id like to see a fix that strengthens the ship and or adds versatility such as a free barrel roll.

Boost would be more in line with how the ship and its drive looks, and also it would not simply be a copy of the JM5k.

My main concern with the firespray is the Dial. It is really easy to be out of the fight for a turn or two after the first pass. One way to avoid that is going slow, but then you will be vurnerable to concentrated fire due to the 2 agility.

 

But Kath with HLC and Dengar is not only fun, but also very accurate! PS9 with minimum of 4-dice each turn in 2 directions is nice.

 

What relaly bums me out is the 2 titles, which are not that different from each other, especially now with extra munitions.

What's wrong with the dial? The only thing it lacks are 1 hard turns and it has 2 K-turns to choose from (as its only red maneuvers), I would not call that a "problem dial".

 

 

sure boost or barrel roll would be great on the name pilots. engine upgrade is already a pretty staple upgrade on the name firesprays this ship is a hit and run specialist. its rear arc is its greatest weapon so anything that strengthens that even more or adds verastility will help it keep pace with the power creep in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're not fine.  Any player who is equally good as you flying someone more efficient is going to make your games unfun.  That is unless you like losing 10 games in a row.  

New upgrades that make the firespray more interesting are a win for everyone.  Even if you aren't a competitive player. 

 

Their main problem is this:  The 2 evade dice simply don't tend to be much use.  They don't really dodge much of anything with any degree of reliability, and attack power relatively has gone up since wave3.   We have Guidance chip Ordnance (literally +1 hit to 4 die attacks), Palpatine for Soontir and Vader (arc dodging you), 4 die natural ships, TLT, alpha strikes, regen.  

 

There are two ways currently to mitigate this:

The first problem is that even if you roll those 2 green dice: a lot of time you get 1 focus result.  Which you MUST spend to survive long enough, yet only nets you a bonus of a single dodge.  That's not really good enough against TLT, nor against even 3 power attacks.  

So... Use Agent Kallus or Recon Specialist.  These two give you the focuses to use on both offense and defense, increasing your viability more towards normal.  Another option: Gonk + Experimental interface.

 

The second secret of Firesprays which took me 5 games to understand is the evade action:  Its really good at long range shots as it evades more than 3 green Focus, and on a large ship, it basically becomes an extra hull.  This is extremely relevant. 

With Kallus and an evade, you should be avoiding now enough to get by versus normal random lists.  

Another place evade is the most correct action:  vs low agility lists.  B wings, Ghosts, Decimators.  Your naked reds will get past their dismal greens.  Vs TLT Y or Miranda TLT?  Just die.  Just die a fast death.  

 

Past that, you have to learn how to be unpredictable with your back firing arc to win.  Your opponent should show dismay at least once during each game at you avoid his prediction.  Go for one dismay a game at least.  We mathgicians call that "required make-up efficiency".  

 

---

 

Nobody cares about anyone's fixes, but mine would be: 

Chassis Repurpose (missile):

0pts, missile slot, limited

Your most expensive upgrade is reduced by 3 squad points.  You may only equip one Chassis Repurpose.

 

Chassis Repurpose (cannon):

0pts, cannon slot, limited

Your most expensive upgrade is reduced by 3 squad points.  You may only equip one Chassis Repurpose.

Edited by Blail Blerg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Firespray is given less love then it deserves, and that has always been the case. It's a harder ship to fly properly and I think people often forget it's back arc, and try jousting with it much too much, when you can easily out-guess your opponent and dodge their arc while having a shot, which is beautiful.

 

I flew Scum Boba to victory a lot and when I have more time I will post some game play idea for using him, however, I do think Imperial Firesprays need a meta boost and I think it could come in a very, very simple package:

Allow them to shoot ordnance out of their rear arc.

Krassis becomes more relevant, Kath can Concussion with a crit out the back, and possibly Boba could Adv Proton a guy behind him. all perfectly good options.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imperial Firespray pilots are... subpar. Boba has a positioning ability that is probably the worst ability out of any PS 8+ pilot. Kath is so-so, being that she can be okay if you pair her with a mangler, while Krassis really is the only useful Imp Firespray out there. Scum Firespray pilots are much better, if used properly. Scum Boba can wreck face close up and Kath is killer and fun with the extra rear attack dice.

 

The real issue that hurts the Firespray is it is only a middle-of-the-road ship. It doesn't have the HP to tank focused fire when having to rely on 2 Agility, and its dial while overall ok, can't compete with something like the JM5K, Aggressor, or Falcon. The rear arc attack also loses when compared to a PWT.

 

I like the Firespray, but wish that something would make it more focused.

Edited by Ikka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo firespray are severely lacking

Especially boba fett.

I think ffg really missed the mark on him

This is suppose to be the most feared bounty hunter in the Galaxy

Even Dengar know better than to cross fett

Dengar values his life.

It bugs me that Dengar is a ps 9 while boba is an 8

Boba has been flying the firespray since he was a boy.

He has the thing kitted all out in his own specialty.

His pilot ability is not near as good as the new bounty hunters, which again tells me ffg really missed their mark.

Also the firespray is also an option for the empire to use in this game

While some will argue it should be scum only, let's not ignore the fact that it is an option for the imperial and considering all the options out there it is well below par.

As of now its at the bottom of the list

Just above bombers and maybe on par with defenders

The pilot abilities suck.

Kath requires a negative effect imo to work (cancel out crits) and boba is very situational

His ability should be more on par with Dengar

Really I think ffg got it backwards.

As been pointed out the firespray should bear little cheaper

I believe it should have the sensor slot.

After all boba fett has customized the crap out of it.

The titles are not that great.

Especially the slave 1.

The slave 1 title should have allowed the sensor upgrades, not Torpedoes.

Torpedoes should have just been second nature.

A upgrades that allows it to get a free evade when target locking, or focus or something may help it.

Other than a very small few who may have done well with it, I don't think that is enough to say it is competitive

While it's rear arc is nice, you have to fly away in order to make use of it, making having a Cannon hard to use, plus it's big base means your moving faster so you'll either have to kturn or do fly bys which then take you away from combat, and can leave your side open for out of arc shots on you.

It's two evade dice and 4 shields is not good

With the ships that are out now, one round of focus fire leaves one third of your squad to dust.

Edited by Krynn007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about the rear arc, is that it extends the first pass. I don't think people have quite experimented enough with the new Scum crew on Firesprays to see how effective they can be. And I know I have a very, very fun Ace Killer Boba now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo firespray are severely lacking

Especially boba fett.

I think ffg really missed the mark on him

This is suppose to be the most feared bounty hunter in the Galaxy

Even Dengar know better than to cross fett

Dengar values his life.

It bugs me that Dengar is a ps 9 while boba is an 8

Boba has been flying the firespray since he was a boy.

He has the thing kitted all out in his own specialty.

His pilot ability is not near as good as the new bounty hunters, which again tells me ffg really missed their mark.

Also the firespray is also an option for the empire to use in this game

While some will argue it should be scum only, let's not ignore the fact that it is an option for the imperial and considering all the options out there it is well below par.

As of now its at the bottom of the list

Just above bombers and maybe on par with defenders

The pilot abilities suck.

Kath requires a negative effect imo to work (cancel out crits) and boba is very situational

His ability should be more on par with Dengar

Really I think ffg got it backwards.

As been pointed out the firespray should bear little cheaper

I believe it should have the sensor slot.

After all boba fett has customized the crap out of it.

The titles are not that great.

Especially the slave 1.

The slave 1 title should have allowed the sensor upgrades, not Torpedoes.

Torpedoes should have just been second nature.

A upgrades that allows it to get a free evade when target locking, or focus or something may help it.

Other than a very small few who may have done well with it, I don't think that is enough to say it is competitive

While it's rear arc is nice, you have to fly away in order to make use of it, making having a Cannon hard to use, plus it's big base means your moving faster so you'll either have to kturn or do fly bys which then take you away from combat, and can leave your side open for out of arc shots on you.

It's two evade dice and 4 shields is not good

With the ships that are out now, one round of focus fire leaves one third of your squad to dust.

Boba being PS 8 seems right, Luke is 8 and he has been flying stuff his whole life and has the force.

And Fett's Imperial pilot ability isn't as good as his Scum one because his heart just isn't into it when he's working for the 'man', especially when he is told 'no disintegrations'. Same reason crew boba is scum only. He's more effective working for himself or the criminal element.

Oh and if you are complaining about the Firespray how about actually flying the thing. It's fun, and different from everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing about the rear arc, is that it extends the first pass. I don't think people have quite experimented enough with the new Scum crew on Firesprays to see how effective they can be. And I know I have a very, very fun Ace Killer Boba now. 

 

I agree. I've been running Zuckuss on Kath, and getting Manaroo to pass Kath double focus/TL each turn with Mindlink. Fully modded attacks + rerolling your opponents evades can drop pretty much anything, and it comes at only 40 points.

 

Still, if I were to suggest a fix, it'd be something like this:

 

Holding Cells: (Modification, 0 points)

Your upgrade bar gains an additional 'crew' slot. If you equip an additional crew card, you may reduce its cost by 2 (To a minimum of 0).

 

This would let you bring a Tactician, Outlaw Tech, 4-LOM, etc for free. Would give the Firespray a nice boost in efficiency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The scum Firespray is in an "ok" spot I my opinion but the Imperial version has lackluster abilities holding it back. Scum Boba has a really good ability. It takes something that the Firespray is weak in and turns it into a huge benefit. With 2 greens and a big base range 1 is usually pretty scary. If you can get in range 1 of two enemies scum Boba is going to be deadly. I played him the other night in a big 200 point game and he survived shots in one round from Corran, Ten Numb , Han and a range 1 Kanan. With recspec on Boba I was able to evade 6 hits and barely escape with two hull left. It's not in a great place buts it's still useable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo firespray are severely lacking

Especially boba fett.

I think ffg really missed the mark on him

This is suppose to be the most feared bounty hunter in the Galaxy

Even Dengar know better than to cross fett

Dengar values his life.

It bugs me that Dengar is a ps 9 while boba is an 8

Boba has been flying the firespray since he was a boy.

He has the thing kitted all out in his own specialty.

His pilot ability is not near as good as the new bounty hunters, which again tells me ffg really missed their mark.

Also the firespray is also an option for the empire to use in this game

While some will argue it should be scum only, let's not ignore the fact that it is an option for the imperial and considering all the options out there it is well below par.

As of now its at the bottom of the list

Just above bombers and maybe on par with defenders

The pilot abilities suck.

Kath requires a negative effect imo to work (cancel out crits) and boba is very situational

His ability should be more on par with Dengar

Really I think ffg got it backwards.

As been pointed out the firespray should bear little cheaper

I believe it should have the sensor slot.

After all boba fett has customized the crap out of it.

The titles are not that great.

Especially the slave 1.

The slave 1 title should have allowed the sensor upgrades, not Torpedoes.

Torpedoes should have just been second nature.

A upgrades that allows it to get a free evade when target locking, or focus or something may help it.

Other than a very small few who may have done well with it, I don't think that is enough to say it is competitive

While it's rear arc is nice, you have to fly away in order to make use of it, making having a Cannon hard to use, plus it's big base means your moving faster so you'll either have to kturn or do fly bys which then take you away from combat, and can leave your side open for out of arc shots on you.

It's two evade dice and 4 shields is not good

With the ships that are out now, one round of focus fire leaves one third of your squad to dust.

Boba being PS 8 seems right, Luke is 8 and he has been flying stuff his whole life and has the force.

And Fett's Imperial pilot ability isn't as good as his Scum one because his heart just isn't into it when he's working for the 'man', especially when he is told 'no disintegrations'. Same reason crew boba is scum only. He's more effective working for himself or the criminal element.

Oh and if you are complaining about the Firespray how about actually flying the thing. It's fun, and different from everything else.

Seriously?

I've flown the thing a lot.

I've done very well with it

Duel firespray lists, firespray teamed with Phantom, mini swarm, etc

So you think the firespray is ok where is at?

I've got plenty enough experience with it and have enjoyed it.

Thing is, as I said, for its costs and for what it brings there are better options.

(Imperial anyway which most of my concern is)

As for your suggestions, I don't think ffg was thinking back in wave 2 let's make boba ability sub par because his heart isn't in it

You hear yourself?

All fett cares about is credits. I highly doubt a character such as him would only do his half best.

Plus why is Dengar pilot ability much better?

His ability is better than both versions of fett.

Fett scum variation is only good in range 1 and if he gets swarmed by a swarm that won'tsave him

Even then his Scum ability is not as good as Dengar or zukass for that matter

Getting a reroll for each ship at range 1 is not that great.

Get 3-4 ships at range one and he's toast anyway. Good for his attack, still not good for only two evades

He won't stand a chance against a crackshot swarm

I never said the ship was not fun.

I've had lots of fun with it, but that still doesn't mean it's not in a good standing right now.

If you think so then Good for you, but so far the results we've seen from store championship and regional would disagree with you

I'm just pointing out the obvious

Dengar ability is better than both Fett's version

Getting a second attack is much better than his Scum or Imperial version.

The firespray two evade dice melts it pretty fast with focus fire

Two bad rolls and that's usually well over half your hp.

Not a lot of green maneuvers, so getting stressed makes you very predictable

Having the evade action is nice, but leaves you with no modifiers for attack

Kallus is an option for Imperial firespray, but again 4+ ship builds he loses a lot of his strength.

The cost of the firespray is going to be near impossible to compete when you have the new defenders hit the table.

Kath Imperial ability is not good as I said, it requires a negative effect to happen.

Imo I'd rather not have you cancel out my crit. It's a bit of insurance, but I'm not going to revolve a build around something the require a negative effect to happen imo.

A 1 turn would really be nice on the firespray, especially with the rear arc.

Arc dodgers such as Fel Vader, jax have no problem getting into a firespray blind spot and I've torn them to pieced more times than I can count using high PS arc dodgers.

There's a reason why we don't see a lot of firespray in top spots.

Just because maybe 2-3 people have managed to take them far, imo does not make them good.

I'm really hoping for some firespray lovin down the road

Really disappointed with Fett's ability.

Even when I was new to the game during wave 3 I never thought his ability was anything great, and since then it's gotten worse in comparison to other pilots who are suppose to be scared of fett

Edited by Krynn007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo firespray are severely lacking

Especially boba fett.

I think ffg really missed the mark on him

This is suppose to be the most feared bounty hunter in the Galaxy

Even Dengar know better than to cross fett

Dengar values his life.

It bugs me that Dengar is a ps 9 while boba is an 8

Boba has been flying the firespray since he was a boy.

He has the thing kitted all out in his own specialty.

His pilot ability is not near as good as the new bounty hunters, which again tells me ffg really missed their mark.

Also the firespray is also an option for the empire to use in this game

While some will argue it should be scum only, let's not ignore the fact that it is an option for the imperial and considering all the options out there it is well below par.

As of now its at the bottom of the list

Just above bombers and maybe on par with defenders

The pilot abilities suck.

Kath requires a negative effect imo to work (cancel out crits) and boba is very situational

His ability should be more on par with Dengar

Really I think ffg got it backwards.

As been pointed out the firespray should bear little cheaper

I believe it should have the sensor slot.

After all boba fett has customized the crap out of it.

The titles are not that great.

Especially the slave 1.

The slave 1 title should have allowed the sensor upgrades, not Torpedoes.

Torpedoes should have just been second nature.

A upgrades that allows it to get a free evade when target locking, or focus or something may help it.

Other than a very small few who may have done well with it, I don't think that is enough to say it is competitive

While it's rear arc is nice, you have to fly away in order to make use of it, making having a Cannon hard to use, plus it's big base means your moving faster so you'll either have to kturn or do fly bys which then take you away from combat, and can leave your side open for out of arc shots on you.

It's two evade dice and 4 shields is not good

With the ships that are out now, one round of focus fire leaves one third of your squad to dust.

Boba being PS 8 seems right, Luke is 8 and he has been flying stuff his whole life and has the force.

And Fett's Imperial pilot ability isn't as good as his Scum one because his heart just isn't into it when he's working for the 'man', especially when he is told 'no disintegrations'. Same reason crew boba is scum only. He's more effective working for himself or the criminal element.

Oh and if you are complaining about the Firespray how about actually flying the thing. It's fun, and different from everything else.

All we ever see Luke do is crash and/or almost get shot down if not for wingmates. I'd say Luke doesn't even deserve PS8. I think the point this guy was trying to get across though was that we know Fett was the best of the best, but for some reason Dengar, a guy who got wiped out by Han and has permanent brain damage is a better pilot then Boba in game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo firespray are severely lackingEspecially boba fett.I think ffg really missed the mark on himThis is suppose to be the most feared bounty hunter in the GalaxyEven Dengar know better than to cross fettDengar values his life.It bugs me that Dengar is a ps 9 while boba is an 8Boba has been flying the firespray since he was a boy.He has the thing kitted all out in his own specialty.His pilot ability is not near as good as the new bounty hunters, which again tells me ffg really missed their mark.Also the firespray is also an option for the empire to use in this gameWhile some will argue it should be scum only, let's not ignore the fact that it is an option for the imperial and considering all the options out there it is well below par.As of now its at the bottom of the listJust above bombers and maybe on par with defendersThe pilot abilities suck.Kath requires a negative effect imo to work (cancel out crits) and boba is very situationalHis ability should be more on par with DengarReally I think ffg got it backwards.As been pointed out the firespray should bear little cheaperI believe it should have the sensor slot.After all boba fett has customized the crap out of it.The titles are not that great.Especially the slave 1.The slave 1 title should have allowed the sensor upgrades, not Torpedoes.Torpedoes should have just been second nature.A upgrades that allows it to get a free evade when target locking, or focus or something may help it.Other than a very small few who may have done well with it, I don't think that is enough to say it is competitiveWhile it's rear arc is nice, you have to fly away in order to make use of it, making having a Cannon hard to use, plus it's big base means your moving faster so you'll either have to kturn or do fly bys which then take you away from combat, and can leave your side open for out of arc shots on you.It's two evade dice and 4 shields is not goodWith the ships that are out now, one round of focus fire leaves one third of your squad to dust.

Boba being PS 8 seems right, Luke is 8 and he has been flying stuff his whole life and has the force.And Fett's Imperial pilot ability isn't as good as his Scum one because his heart just isn't into it when he's working for the 'man', especially when he is told 'no disintegrations'. Same reason crew boba is scum only. He's more effective working for himself or the criminal element.Oh and if you are complaining about the Firespray how about actually flying the thing. It's fun, and different from everything else.
All we ever see Luke do is crash and/or almost get shot down if not for wingmates. I'd say Luke doesn't even deserve PS8. I think the point this guy was trying to get across though was that we know Fett was the best of the best, but for some reason Dengar, a guy who got wiped out by Han and has permanent brain damage is a better pilot then Boba in game.

This guy gets it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...