Breaking Breaking of the Fellowship

[987654321 232]

Hi everyone(no, I'm not Seastan), this is my first post ever at this forum and I had a thought about how to cancel the nastiest treachery in Breaking of the Fellowship without spending a Test of Will or Eleanor action and was not sure if it's totally legal.

 

Look: fallen into evil transforms a hero into an enemy. However, it never says its text box is blanked (otherwise you would have 0 attack Merry, but if it's not blanked, you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you). If you attach it to Boromir or Caldara you can suicide them, and all their attachments will inmediately be discarded. Then you use fortune or fate to bring them back without fallen into evil.

 

Also a doubt: if you control 4 dwarves and then you play ally gloin or bifur, can you trigger their responses?

[Kakita Shiro 992]

You don't control enemies so you'd never be able to trigger Caldara or Boromir.

[cmabr002 292]

Look: fallen into evil transforms a hero into an enemy. However, it never says its text box is blanked (otherwise you would have 0 attack Merry, but if it's not blanked, you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you). If you attach it to Boromir or Caldara you can suicide them, and all their attachments will inmediately be discarded. Then you use fortune or fate to bring them back without fallen into evil.

 

Merry would actually have 0 attack.  Once Fallen into Evil makes your hero an enemy, you no longer control it.  So Merry's attack would get reduced to zero because the reference to "you" on Merry's card isn't directed at any particular player anymore.  At least, this is how I would interpret it.  Also, you wouldn't be able to trigger Caldara or Boromir's ability since you don't control them anymore.

 

You are right that Galadriel wouldn't be able to attack.

 

Also a doubt: if you control 4 dwarves and then you play ally gloin or bifur, can you trigger their responses?

 

Yes, you are allowed to trigger the responses on those Dwarves if they are your 5th Dwarf.

[987654321 232]

...

Okay, simply include cancelation. Thanks!

[cmabr002 292]

...

Okay, simply include cancelation. Thanks!

 

You can also include Condition removal!

Edited May 24, 2016 by cmabr002

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

I wondered about Merry as well, I played this scenario just last weekend.  I decided to let the text assume "you" meant me, the owner of the card, so he had 1 attack whenever Frodo was on my side of the table (this was a Merry/Boromir/Aragorn deck).

 

Even if the "you" would still refer to the player, Merry wouldn't count himself because he is no longer a "hero" and he isn't under my control anyway (you only count Hobbit heroes that you control for his ability). 

 

If "you" appears on a shadow effect, it refers to the defending player.  If it is simply on an enemy card, I suppose it could refer to any player that the enemy is interacting with...?  I don't think it should simply be "nobody."  Lacking a definition, it could be "nobody," but it could also be "the engaged player" (which would still be "nobody" if he gets pushed back to the staging area).

[NathanH 350]

You could also consider Merry to be controlled by the encounter deck, and give him 1 attack.

[krokodiler 24]

I'm with GrandSpleen on this. As Fallen into Evil doesn't mention card text blanking, I'd say that applicable effects on such card are still active. So, I'd give Merry attack strength equal to number of hobbit heroes defending player controls (=you).

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

You could also consider Merry to be controlled by the encounter deck, and give him 1 attack.

 

You could not, because there are no Hobbit "heroes" controlled by the encounter deck, only 1 Hobbit "enemy."

[NathanH 350]

Good point.

[Seastan 1,324]

you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you

 

This is clever! But could you attack her? She can't defend...

 

What happens to the hero with Fallen Into Evil at the end of the game, if it hasn't been recovered or killed?

[PocketWraith 553]

What happens to the hero with Fallen Into Evil at the end of the game, if it hasn't been recovered or killed?

If you're playing campaign mode they go on the list of fallen heroes.

[cmabr002 292]

 

you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you

 

This is clever! But could you attack her? She can't defend...

 

According to a brief look at the Core Set rules, I'm pretty sure you could attack her.  Nothing in the rule book says that when a player declares an attack against an enemy that it is "defending" it

[NathanH 350]

 

 

you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you

 

This is clever! But could you attack her? She can't defend...

 

According to a brief look at the Core Set rules, I'm pretty sure you could attack her.  Nothing in the rule book says that when a player declares an attack against an enemy that it is "defending" it

 

 

This is true, and there have until very lately been no cards that refer to an enemy as defending, but Na’asiyah does.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

You want to attack Galadriel?  **** move, Seastan.

[cmabr002 292]

 

 

 

you can choose Galadriel and she wouldn't attack you

 

This is clever! But could you attack her? She can't defend...

 

According to a brief look at the Core Set rules, I'm pretty sure you could attack her.  Nothing in the rule book says that when a player declares an attack against an enemy that it is "defending" it

 

 

This is true, and there have until very lately been no cards that refer to an enemy as defending, but Na’asiyah does.

 

 

Interesting.  I haven't gotten to Na'asiyah yet, but that's an interesting precedent.

[Ecthelion III 382]

Actually, you can trigger Action effects on enemies. Read the Khazad-Dum rulebook.

[NathanH 350]

Intriguing! I'm still not sure whether you're allowed to trigger actions on encounter cards with "you" on it, but maybe so. In any case, Boromir's second effect can be! That is actually perfect, even when Fallen Into Evil he can sacrifice himself!

Edited May 30, 2016 by NathanH