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emmjay

2 day events, really guys?

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No issue here. Most tournaments now take preregistration. As long as the potential attendees are made aware of the schedule as soon as the TO and owner know, 2 days is better than a 16 or 20 hour tournament, and is better than a store capping players to arbitrarily keep the size down and turn away a bunch of free money.

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Yes, really.

 

With X-Wing's popularity and increasing numbers across the competitive scene, in order to keep control of event timings and prevent ludicrous schedules, tournament organisers really have three choices:

 

a:  run two day X-Wing events or

b:  limit numbers/capacity or

c:  dispense with the cut to top 8

 

Basically, for the good of the game (and the players involved), you either break up a large event over two days, or limit numbers (and thereby limit number of rounds needing to be played), or dispense with a cut to top 8 entirely and determine winners based on final Swiss standings.

 

There's pros and cons to all these approaches.

 

For (a), you obviously have the issue of travel and accommodation costs over two days; not so bad for locals, not great for travelling players.  For (b) the best approach would probably be "smaller events, but more often", which might help timings on the day but isn't deal for FLGS owners who are usually committed to running events for quite a large number of products. © cuts out the issue of event organisers having to stick around (potentially very late) when only eight/four/two people are left playing, but going purely on Swiss results rather than knockout rounds isn't quite as satisfying for the players.

 

Issues with every approach, and no ideal solution really.

Or, and this is a thought, have the pre-cut tournament be 3-4 rounds, with a top cut based not on the Swiss standings but on MoV. Solve the problem with IDs, solve the problem with needing 10+ rounds to find a winner, and make things a lot easier to keep track of overall.

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i even find playing 6 or more games in a day/row tedious and not fun even if i am winning...  And the potential of winning another range ruler just doesn't really do it for me... I prefer the normal game night games.. but what ever floats peoples boats..   

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We are going to the Raleigh regional this weekend. This event has been very adamant that it will be a one day event. Now, they have 124 registered which means that it is 6 cut to top 16. They aren't starting until 10 am so, with a 30 minute lunch break and 1.5 hours from start of match to start of next match, means that swiss will end at 7:30. That math is VERY optimistic mind you. This puts the cut starting at 8 pm and continuing on until roughly 2am. 

 

The two issues I have are

 

1) We are driving from Maryland so this is about a 5 hour drive meaning we need a hotel room night before. If we dont make the cut and drive home, we get home around 1am. If any of us make the cut, we are looking at 5/6 am arriving at home.

 

But since we don't know and hotels needing 24 hours notice to cancel a room we are in a kind of limbo. 

 

2) This means that the top 16 are going to be exhausted playing their games. Meaning that skill is less of a factor and stamina is more. While I agree that is part of playing in a tournament, there needs to be some common sense used to make sure that you give everyone the best chance at showing their true abilities 

 

Personally, Two day events make WAY more sense to me then trying to cram it all into one day. They just make sense when you get to a certain size. 

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Driving 7 hours? I won't even consider driving for three :D.

 

7 hours, from my house that would get me to either Stettin in Poland, Aalborg in  Denmark, Munich in Germany, far past Paris in France, everywhere in the BeNeLux or, even with the ferry, to London in the UK.

 

That circle overlaps 8 countries, 7 languages and three currencies. 

 

For a game of X-Wing? It'd better be a multiple day event!

LOL for people in some US states that doesn't even get them out of their state.

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Driving 7 hours? I won't even consider driving for three :D.

 

7 hours, from my house that would get me to either Stettin in Poland, Aalborg in  Denmark, Munich in Germany, far past Paris in France, everywhere in the BeNeLux or, even with the ferry, to London in the UK.

 

That circle overlaps 8 countries, 7 languages and three currencies. 

 

For a game of X-Wing? It'd better be a multiple day event!

LOL for people in some US states that doesn't even get them out of their state.

 

 

Not just the US, 7 hours driving would get me almost half way to my 'local' regionals...

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You're trying to tell us that you regularly drive more than three hours to events and that you'd rather they go from 8am to midnight (meaning you have to be up at 4am and won't get home until almost 4am the next day) than just spend the night? Are you honestly claiming that you wouldn't spend the night even if the event was only on the one day?

 

Frankly, I don't believe you.

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As a tournament wargamer the idea of a 2-day tournament is pretty much standard for me. While some may find the idea of a second day odd I find it equally baffling that people are prepared to drive 3+ hours one-way to attend a 1-day tournament that could last more than 10 hours. What this highlights is that there is no easy answer to the problem of the increasing popularity of X-Wing.

 

Perhaps the tournament set-up is partly to blame? FFG decided on a system that doesn't really favour 2-day play because at the time there was no need to take that into account - X-Wing wasn't popular enough to attract the number of players needed for 6+ rounds of swiss and top-16 cuts. The knock-on effect of that was to condition X-Wing gamers to expect tournament to last a single day and no more.

 

Given the popularity of the game and the numbers we're seeing at Regionals, and even at some Store Champs, I think we'll see more and more 2-day events unless FFG changes the tournament format in some way. If events are to start going to a second day more often I think either FFG or TOs/FLGS need to start coming up with something that allows people who missed the cut to keep playing on day 2, ideally in a meaningful way and not just as a token gesture. I wouldn't mind a tournament structure that had the Swiss rounds on day 1 followed by the cut on day 2 (maybe another Swiss round first if required) with an escalation tournament for those who missed the cut just to give them something different from traditional tournament games.

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You're trying to tell us that you regularly drive more than three hours to events and that you'd rather they go from 8am to midnight (meaning you have to be up at 4am and won't get home until almost 4am the next day) than just spend the night? Are you honestly claiming that you wouldn't spend the night even if the event was only on the one day?

 

Frankly, I don't believe you.

I think it may be a cultural/geographic thing. Being from the UK I also can't understand the concept of driving 3 or more hours to go to a tournament only to do it all again in the evening. Anywhere more than an hour's drive from me would be classified as "a long way". I suspect my attitude might be different if I lived in a different location. 

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If you're not very local or already planning on staying having two day tournaments is certainly going to cut down one's ability to play and expect to win.  Maybe winning swiss on day 1 is enough but depending on why you go it certainly may not be.  This will certainly take any "casual" that is left in X-Wing and kick it to the curb.

 

When it comes to fatigue I'll say that is part of the reason that the ID is a good thing.

 

For those who want to argue against early starts what if there are two start times?  If there happens to be some kind of "win your way in" system where people could have byes in the first round and thus start that 1+ later you probably let the hard core in with the later start while those who come early to play will get things going earlier.

 

There may not be any easy answers that will satisfy everyone.  It could turn out that the apparent popularity of X-Wing tournaments could also be the end of X-Wing tournaments especially when viewed as they were to get people interested.

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But the bottom line is this, you have no special right to see your desires fulfilled, you don't deserve to go to regionals more than someone else does. For some people a one day event that takes 14 hours will mean they can't go.

 

So these events will do what is best for them, that draws the largest crowd in.  If two day events is both better for them and brings in a large crowd then that's what they will do.  If two day events cause the number of player to drop then they won't.

 

But how it affects you simply doesn't matter as long as there is someone there to take your spot.

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Driving 7 hours? I won't even consider driving for three :D.

 

7 hours, from my house that would get me to either Stettin in Poland, Aalborg in  Denmark, Munich in Germany, far past Paris in France, everywhere in the BeNeLux or, even with the ferry, to London in the UK.

 

That circle overlaps 8 countries, 7 languages and three currencies. 

 

For a game of X-Wing? It'd better be a multiple day event

I live in Australia, 7 hours drive gets me to my front gate to get the daily mail... of course I am joking  :P Australia is 4,030 Km East-West or 3,685 Km North-South. With not great infrastructure except on the coast roads you dont get to places in a hurry if you drive.

 

But seriously if I was thinking of a 7 hour drive, I would cut that to an hour drive to my capital domestic terminal, plane trip to the closest airport and drive from there. That is one hell of a drive to play a tabletop game. 

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Driving 7 hours? I won't even consider driving for three :D.

 

7 hours, from my house that would get me to either Stettin in Poland, Aalborg in  Denmark, Munich in Germany, far past Paris in France, everywhere in the BeNeLux or, even with the ferry, to London in the UK.

 

That circle overlaps 8 countries, 7 languages and three currencies. 

 

For a game of X-Wing? It'd better be a multiple day event

I live in Australia, 7 hours drive gets me to my front gate to get the daily mail... of course I am joking  :P Australia is 4,030 Km East-West or 3,685 Km North-South. With not great infrastructure except on the coast roads you dont get to places in a hurry if you drive.

 

But seriously if I was thinking of a 7 hour drive, I would cut that to an hour drive to my capital domestic terminal, plane trip to the closest airport and drive from there. That is one hell of a drive to play a tabletop game. 

 

 

 

WELLLLLL you got to remember that this is 'Murica. Gas is right around $2 US a gallon, so driving 7 hours and then back is about one and half tanks of gas in my car soooo about 50 bucks maybe? split 3/4 ways is way cheaper than a flight.

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2 day events prevent me from attending as my work schedule for both my jobs only gives me Saturdays free.

But for every person who can't get 2 days off work or take 2 days away from family responsibilities there could well be people not attending 12-hour one-day tournaments because they're too exhausting or a long drive is involved, further extending the day.

 

This year is the first that's seen a large number of 2-day events. I think after this round of regionals we'll have a better picture of which format is preferred in which location. Ultimately that's what will decide X-Wing tournament formats in the future.

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2 day events prevent me from attending as my work schedule for both my jobs only gives me Saturdays free.

1 day events prevent me from attending as my work schedule for both my jobs only gives me from 9am to 9pm on Saturdays and Sundays free.

The system will never work for 100% of the people. As long as their is a mix of one day and two day events. Everyone should be fine.

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Driving 7 hours? I won't even consider driving for three :D.

 

7 hours, from my house that would get me to either Stettin in Poland, Aalborg in  Denmark, Munich in Germany, far past Paris in France, everywhere in the BeNeLux or, even with the ferry, to London in the UK.

 

That circle overlaps 8 countries, 7 languages and three currencies. 

 

For a game of X-Wing? It'd better be a multiple day event!

 

Depending on the direction I go, 7 hours doesn't even get me out of my state.

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The Regional in Southern California is expected to be over 128 people. That's 6 rounds of swiss cutting to top 16 or top 32 if the TO uses the Advanced Structure. That's going to be 10 or 11 rounds for the folks that play until the final round. Plan on registration starting an hour before the first round, each round taking 90 minutes, and two 45 minute breaks as a minimum. That's a 17 and a half hour day. Even if you start  8AM that means that the final round is starting at midnight. 

 

That's all assuming that the tournament runs super smooth and stays to a strict schedule. That's not something I'd be willing to bet on.

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