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New Article up "Fly Casual"

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*edit* No need to apologize, not to me anyway!

 

Well, of course top tables in big tournaments like worlds are really high stakes and very exciting!  I don't think anyone would say that they aren't.  

 

I just disagree with what you seemed to be saying about there not being any pressure in any game that is not in a tournament.  That's just not true.  Are there going to be games outside of tournaments that exceed the drama involved in the top table at worlds?  Probably not.  But that's not the same as there being no pressure.  Maybe I'm taking you out of context, since you said:

 

"You will never top [the excitement of tournament format] with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed."

 

Strictly speaking, in a casual game there isn't pressure to win.  But casual is kind of a catch-all term for any x-wing game that isn't the tournament format, and I got the sense that this catch-all meaning was what you meant.  

 

I'm not trying to say casual play>tournament play.  That isn't what FFG is saying either - I think we're just trying to say that the alternative formats can be really fun and engaging, and they're worth trying.  

 

I see .. I suppose I should clarify a bit. What confused me about the article is that it seemed to be promoting the idea of alternate/casual format play to increase format diversity amongst the player base .. I imagine that this is with the hopes of players being more inclusive of less tournament inclined players.

The thing is, in my opinion, this will never work, because people want the highest form of excitement and enjoyment out of their game. I do believe that for 'most' people, this is tournament play.

For a lot of those people, playing casually and not for purposes of testing tournament style games will seem like an inferior form of excitement at best and a waste of time at worst.

Basically .. the article seems to be saying "hey tournament players, try playing casually" .. and tourney players will be going "u wot m8?"

Thats what I got out of the article.

Edited by Tenka

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Sorry .. I don't mean to step on peoples toes or anything. But that's still how I see it.. I've played some casual games and I've played campaign games of other games (like Imperial Assault) .. and while they are definitely enjoyable and investing, it is nowhere near as exciting as being 4-1 in a high level tournament needing that last win to make the Top X cut, or being heads up in the finals of the elimination for a regionals/nationals/X open/worlds. It's just not the same .. not to me and I speculate not for the majority of people.

It's how I feel ... sorry.

 

 

 

Never be sorry for how you feel. It's okay. I like competition. I find it very enjoyable.

 

Okay, being in the finals of elimination for regionals/nationals/x open/worlds. how many people do you think actually have experienced that? I've been in the final cut for store tournaments but not a regionals. So is that not valid and I still haven't had the 'true' xwing experience? 

 

And how many units of xwing have FFG sold? The tournament scene is the most celebrated and has the attention on it, but there is a lot more going on. People that have put work into making custom scenarios, supporting alternative modes of play, have made a lot of people very happy, that probably would not have been happy otherwise. It's not an identical experience to what your describing but its making a lot of people very happy, and they deserve recognition... so this article by FFG might be a way of doing that. 

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*edit* No need to apologize, not to me anyway!

 

Well, of course top tables in big tournaments like worlds are really high stakes and very exciting!  I don't think anyone would say that they aren't.  

 

I just disagree with what you seemed to be saying about there not being any pressure in any game that is not in a tournament.  That's just not true.  Are there going to be games outside of tournaments that exceed the drama involved in the top table at worlds?  Probably not.  But that's not the same as there being no pressure.  Maybe I'm taking you out of context, since you said:

 

"You will never top [the excitement of tournament format] with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed."

 

Strictly speaking, in a casual game there isn't pressure to win.  But casual is kind of a catch-all term for any x-wing game that isn't the tournament format, and I got the sense that this catch-all meaning was what you meant.  

 

I'm not trying to say casual play>tournament play.  That isn't what FFG is saying either - I think we're just trying to say that the alternative formats can be really fun and engaging, and they're worth trying.

I see .. I suppose I should clarify a bit. What confused me about the article is that it seemed to be promoting the idea of alternate/casual format play to increase format diversity amongst the player base .. I imagine that this is with the hopes of players being more inclusive of less tournament inclined players.

The thing is, in my opinion, this will never work, because people want the highest form of excitement and enjoyment out of their game. I do believe that for 'most' people, this is tournament play.

For a lot of those people, playing casually and not for purposes of testing tournament style games will seem like an inferior form of excitement at best and a waste of time at worst.

Basically .. the article seems to be saying "hey tournament players, try playing casually" .. and tourney players will be going "u wot m8?"

Thats what I got out of the article.

I dunno; there's a ton of fans of the Heroes of Aturi Cluster campaign that might disagree with you about tournaments necessarily being the pinnacle of enjoyability. They're high stakes, yeah, and the top top games are more dramatic than you can get in a casual game, but enjoyability isn't necessarily tied to pressure, or the kind of competition you have in tournaments.

There really are ways to thoroughly enjoy the game outside of tournaments. I should know because I help run a podcast about exactly that, and hear regularly from people who agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.

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You will never top that with casual play.. its never going to happen. I get that there are players who are going to want to play without the "pressure" .. but without that "pressure" you cant be "serious" and without being "serious" it is just not as rewarding to succeed. 

 

Why so serious?

 

It's only a matter of perspective. Taking it too seriously steal the fun away from me. It's a game. The more I laughed in a game, the more rewarding it was. I really don't care about being first or not. It doesn't mean that I won't do my best, but at the end of the day, my most memorable game will be the one that I had more fun, win or lose.

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Sorry .. I don't mean to step on peoples toes or anything. But that's still how I see it.. I've played some casual games and I've played campaign games of other games (like Imperial Assault) .. and while they are definitely enjoyable and investing, it is nowhere near as exciting as being 4-1 in a high level tournament needing that last win to make the Top X cut, or being heads up in the finals of the elimination for a regionals/nationals/X open/worlds. It's just not the same .. not to me and I speculate not for the majority of people.

It's how I feel ... sorry.

Look, I know how you feel. I've been within a hair's breadth of winning Magic tournaments that had serious (thousand plus) dollars on the line - and came in high enough to actually WIN significant prize money, several times. That thrill of doing your best AGAINST the best, testing your skills to the limit, knowing that you win more than just pride, but prizes...

 

It's there.

 

But you're disparaging all the other ways of playing as 'less exciting' when nothing could be further from the truth. It's a different kind of exciting, to be sure, and I enjoy both equally - laughing with friends as the AI decides the last TIE flees straight for the table edge and gritting my teeth as I realize I mispredicted his Soontir.

 

My main problem with the tournament scene is not that it exists, but that it's boring. Sterile. And X-Wing is a very new game in terms of wargaming, and the problems it has are solved in a wargaming context, and have been for thirty years.

 

Scenarios - especially random roll scenarios - mix it up and what's good in one is not good in another. A swarm would be really good in an "Escort" scenario where you get 50 extra points for getting a shuttle off the board, but less good in an "Vendetta" scenario where you get 50 points if your highest PS kills the opponent's highest PS.

 

With tournaments moving more towards a "How many points you've earned/lost" ranking system rather than games won/games lost, such scenarios would add a lot of fun and variety to the tournament scene without breaking it wide open.

 

 

But all that is lost because FFG won't put any extra effort into that area. Seriously, the game's been out for four years now, and the only official tournament thing is "100pts 6 rocks".

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Went through this whole thread and the other one, I think I might be the target audience for this article but not the actual game.  I play Imperial Assault, I love the campaign in it, I also own the RPG and have played that.  I have recently started growing the skirmish game in my area casually and while I enjoy it, nothing beats a weekend night with my buddy's drinking beer, forgetting about responsibility and laughing over some dice rolls in the casual IA campaign while enjoying a very well done narrative story line.  IF X-Wing had anything close to this (and I have recently discovered HotAC, but it seems to require a lot of ships off the hop) I would buy it.  Their core box seems to be a great start, but it needs more.  If they could come out with a mid range box that included a few more styles of ship and a mini campaign it would be very popular among the narrative community.  We are however not the current target audience of this game.  It seems this article is trying to pander to us, but I would rather see FFG walk the walk instead of talk the talk.  But just in case they actually do care and the point of this article was to get us to talk about it and discuss ideas (I am hoping that is why they linked the forums anyway).. then as it stands it is an intimidating community to join with a lot of ships and cards and not a lot of direction.  If they had an expanded entry point to get some more skin in the game for a little more dough I would be all over that.. and then obviously expand my collection accordingly.

 

And I don't doubt that I would venture into the tournament style format, my LGS has a healthy league and regular tournaments.. but it's a tough sell to convince me to buy hundreds of dollars of ships off the bat at a CHANCE to field a semi competitive list.  Suck me in with the campaign, like IA did, then I will buy the blister packs and expand from there.

Edited by FrogTrigger

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The vast majority of this thread is one side or the other trying to convince the other side why their way of play is better. That was the exact opposite point of the article. The point of the article was to examine and validate alternatives to the standard tournament playstlye, while not demonising tournament play. And I think that is awesome. It shows FFG is listening. For months(years) folks on these forums have been asking for other ways to play. This article is a step in the right direction. As to the quality or substance of the article, come on, what do you expect? The only way it could have "walked the walk"(as many have mentioned above) any more is to also announce some " Campaign Play" or whatever along with some mission packs. And that would have been great. But if FFG had done that, then people would be complaining about not getting Wave 9 info. Just take the article at face value for what it is. An acknowledgement that FFG realizes that people want other different ways to play and agrees that it is a good idea.

Edited by JJFDVORAK

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I almost never play in any tournament settings.. I find it funny that there are so many complaints about an article on having fun .. If you had one negative thing to say about it then you simply don't get what FFG is... They were created by gamers and have strived to make the best possible games out there. I'm sure some of you will light your touches for this but tournament play is to help the game designers find out what needs tweaking. It comprises around 30% of the games being played. I am great full for the hard work they put into this game. So like they said have fun with it... but I don't expect a lot of you winning on here to even understand what fun is.

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Went through this whole thread and the other one, I think I might be the target audience for this article but not the actual game.  I play Imperial Assault, I love the campaign in it, I also own the RPG and have played that.  I have recently started growing the skirmish game in my area casually and while I enjoy it, nothing beats a weekend night with my buddy's drinking beer, forgetting about responsibility and laughing over some dice rolls in the casual IA campaign while enjoying a very well done narrative story line.  IF X-Wing had anything close to this (and I have recently discovered HotAC, but it seems to require a lot of ships off the hop) I would buy it.  Their core box seems to be a great start, but it needs more.  If they could come out with a mid range box that included a few more styles of ship and a mini campaign it would be very popular among the narrative community.  We are however not the current target audience of this game.  It seems this article is trying to pander to us, but I would rather see FFG walk the walk instead of talk the talk.  But just in case they actually do care and the point of this article was to get us to talk about it and discuss ideas (I am hoping that is why they linked the forums anyway).. then as it stands it is an intimidating community to join with a lot of ships and cards and not a lot of direction.  If they had an expanded entry point to get some more skin in the game for a little more dough I would be all over that.. and then obviously expand my collection accordingly.

 

And I don't doubt that I would venture into the tournament style format, my LGS has a healthy league and regular tournaments.. but it's a tough sell to convince me to buy hundreds of dollars of ships off the bat at a CHANCE to field a semi competitive list.  Suck me in with the campaign, like IA did, then I will buy the blister packs and expand from there.

 

If money is the issue with starting a campaign, you might want to look into just grabbing up some micro machine TIE fighters and using them in place of the FFG ones. Or papercraft... i'm not going to lead you by the nose but they are out there ;)  Maybe you'll decide you want the real models, maybe not! And you can combine xwing missions/campaigns, with imperial assault. 

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On one hand though I would hate for X-Wing to become a casual play oriented game where player enjoyment was more important than a tight ruleset and comprehensive game mechanics.

 

Cuz I mean hell, the only real reason I bought into X-Wing was and still is the promise of high level competitive play backed by an expertly written set of rules.  If all I wanted to do was make up stories and play sandbox I'd still be playing Warhammer 40k. 

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wdf.  What a waste of time article? 

 

There are very few times I have wished for a dislike button on the forum...

If it was such a waste of your time, why waste more time commenting.

 

Kris

 

Because I'm showing my dissatisfaction at a content-depleted article and would like to remind FFG that their article posting and other PR has been particularly poor.  

 

Other reasons include rebuffing the inevitable snarky fault-finding posts like this.  

 

 

So every article has to please you?

Why not email them about all of the articles for Netrunner clogging up good X-Wing space?

It's almost like FFGs articles are written to cater for a wide variety of tastes, how dare they not send them to you for pre-approval.

 

An Article that holds zero content is a bad article.

and this particular article had nothing to do with new, old or possible content. 

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This is one of the best articles I've seen from FFG for ages. In fact, probably THE best article I've seen from them.

The main problem with X Wing is that the tournament format is promoted and played by so many players to the exclusion of all else. You can go into some stores on a random games night and find EVERYONE there playing a tournament format game. There are so many ways to play X Wing but gamers are so precious and scared to deviate away from the 'official' way to play that no one ever does anything except play the standard 100 point tournament snoozefest.

Now obviously there's outliers. Some groups embrace alternative play, lots of people play HotAC or Epic games. But the majority of people only ever play tournament style games, and the overwhelming majority of FFG releases tacitly promote the tournament format as well. It's great to see FFG actively promoting the other ways to play. The more people that are keen to play non-tournament games the better. In my ideal world, before EVERY game of X Wing there would be a conversation:

"What sort of game?"

"How many points?"

"Want to play a mission?"

Instead of just an unspoken understanding that the game will automatically be a 100 point furball with six rocks. 

 

This post is wrong on so many levels. Majority of people likes clear, balanced set of rules, and games that play fast. Also a lot of people likes rivalry, outsmarting their opponents and winning. Because of that I, and many others, play tournament format.

If you want your "thematic borefest" way of playing go organize your group and play this way. But you cannot denial that majority of people prefer tournament play - the reason is one; for many it got bigger appeal.

 

Also, do you ask questions like: "what sort of game?", "how many points?", "want to play a mission?" before game of chess? Of course not. Then I don't know why do you expect thing like that in standard X-Wing play. And if you expect it go and organize your game group, but don't expect that strangers will bow down to your gaming preferences.

 

 

One good thing about Games Workshop tournaments is that the corporation will not touch them with a ten foot pole. For the better, in my opinion. Tournament organizers have done a great job at fixing the game for competitive play... and we accept things like comp, creative missions that address balance issues, and creative formats of the game (well at least some of us do).

Exactly. The 40K rule set is hot garbage, but the tournament system is great despite that, because there IS NO single tournament system. Games might be anything from 750 to 2250 points, with rulebook missions or specially created missions unique to the event, and they'll all have different scoring rules for how much a win, loss or draw is worth, for how the scores are weighted to determine first rankings, etc.

This FFG 'one format to rule them all' thing really blows me away. I know everyone is free to run any kind of tournament however they want, but there's an unhealthy fascination with doing things the official FFG way. It comes back to what I said about gamers being precious (and not just X Wing gamers, all gamers!) and not wanting to deviate from anything official. You're always going to have people on the fringes of a gaming community who love doing the odd-ball stuff, but convincing the rest of the herd to try new stuff is always hard. One thing is for sure, if FFG had never stated that 100 was the 'standard' game and never tried to run their own tournament system, there'd be a lot more variety in competitive X Wing play.

 

 

What a terrible idea. Let me tell you that I am coming from WFB and lack of tournament support from GW was horrible. It is a myth that players will always organize tourament scene and tournament rules in the best way. There were many groups, ways to play, problems with organization and clique mentality in WFB scene.

FFG does a great job with organizing their competitive play, thus people play this way. 

Also 100 pts format is great because it hits sweet spot between lenght of play and viable options. When I come from work I can jump right into store or my buddy's place and don't worry that I won't finish game.

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This is one of the best articles I've seen from FFG for ages. In fact, probably THE best article I've seen from them.

The main problem with X Wing is that the tournament format is promoted and played by so many players to the exclusion of all else. You can go into some stores on a random games night and find EVERYONE there playing a tournament format game. There are so many ways to play X Wing but gamers are so precious and scared to deviate away from the 'official' way to play that no one ever does anything except play the standard 100 point tournament snoozefest.

Now obviously there's outliers. Some groups embrace alternative play, lots of people play HotAC or Epic games. But the majority of people only ever play tournament style games, and the overwhelming majority of FFG releases tacitly promote the tournament format as well. It's great to see FFG actively promoting the other ways to play. The more people that are keen to play non-tournament games the better. In my ideal world, before EVERY game of X Wing there would be a conversation:

"What sort of game?"

"How many points?"

"Want to play a mission?"

Instead of just an unspoken understanding that the game will automatically be a 100 point furball with six rocks.

 

This post is wrong on so many levels. Majority of people likes clear, balanced set of rules, and games that play fast. Also a lot of people likes rivalry, outsmarting their opponents and winning. Because of that I, and many others, play tournament format.

If you want your "thematic borefest" way of playing go organize your group and play this way. But you cannot denial that majority of people prefer tournament play - the reason is one; for many it got bigger appeal.

 

Also, do you ask questions like: "what sort of game?", "how many points?", "want to play a mission?" before game of chess? Of course not. Then I don't know why do you expect thing like that in standard X-Wing play. And if you expect it go and organize your game group, but don't expect that strangers will bow down to your gaming preferences.

 

One good thing about Games Workshop tournaments is that the corporation will not touch them with a ten foot pole. For the better, in my opinion. Tournament organizers have done a great job at fixing the game for competitive play... and we accept things like comp, creative missions that address balance issues, and creative formats of the game (well at least some of us do).

Exactly. The 40K rule set is hot garbage, but the tournament system is great despite that, because there IS NO single tournament system. Games might be anything from 750 to 2250 points, with rulebook missions or specially created missions unique to the event, and they'll all have different scoring rules for how much a win, loss or draw is worth, for how the scores are weighted to determine first rankings, etc.

This FFG 'one format to rule them all' thing really blows me away. I know everyone is free to run any kind of tournament however they want, but there's an unhealthy fascination with doing things the official FFG way. It comes back to what I said about gamers being precious (and not just X Wing gamers, all gamers!) and not wanting to deviate from anything official. You're always going to have people on the fringes of a gaming community who love doing the odd-ball stuff, but convincing the rest of the herd to try new stuff is always hard. One thing is for sure, if FFG had never stated that 100 was the 'standard' game and never tried to run their own tournament system, there'd be a lot more variety in competitive X Wing play.

 

What a terrible idea. Let me tell you that I am coming from WFB and lack of tournament support from GW was horrible. It is a myth that players will always organize tourament scene and tournament rules in the best way. There were many groups, ways to play, problems with organization and clique mentality in WFB scene.

FFG does a great job with organizing their competitive play, thus people play this way. 

Also 100 pts format is great because it hits sweet spot between lenght of play and viable options. When I come from work I can jump right into store or my buddy's place and don't worry that I won't finish game.

I don't think you could be more wrong, on all points, if you were deliberately trying.

Well done though, that was an admirable effort.

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I like the article for what it is.. I think the reminder here is that there is other ways to play the game. For me Star Wars is about heroes and epic space battles. For me the 100 pts, 3x3, 6 asteroid format is totally sterile, repetitive and devoid of anything I like in Star Wars.. IMHO: Why play an expensive miniatures game if you are into min-max deckbuilding and massive meta-considerations. If i had that urge why not play Android or Magic or that SW card game - games that does that more cleanly without the fuzzyness of a miniature game..  That said: Armadas format of building around a set of objective cards goes a long way to bring much more variation and narrative into the competitive games..  As a consequence Armada is the competitive game for me and X-wing is the light filler game or is used to play big narrative missions and scenarios (escort the transports, raid the re-supply station, destroy the Death Star)- often combined in a campaign along with Armada.  

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wdf.  What a waste of time article? 

 

There are very few times I have wished for a dislike button on the forum...

If it was such a waste of your time, why waste more time commenting.

 

Kris

 

Because I'm showing my dissatisfaction at a content-depleted article and would like to remind FFG that their article posting and other PR has been particularly poor.  

 

Other reasons include rebuffing the inevitable snarky fault-finding posts like this.  

 

 

So every article has to please you?

Why not email them about all of the articles for Netrunner clogging up good X-Wing space?

It's almost like FFGs articles are written to cater for a wide variety of tastes, how dare they not send them to you for pre-approval.

 

An Article that holds zero content is a bad article.

and this particular article had nothing to do with new, old or possible content. 

 

If by "content" you mean "information on new products," then you are right. But there was DEFINITELY content in that article, and it was good. The news articles don't just have to be their announcement avenue. It could be so much more, and I'm glad they are trying. You don't deserve to hear about every last detail of the stuff they're working on -- they'll tell us when they are good and ready.

 

In science there are different kinds of articles. You seem to be more interested in the primary research articles, where they discuss new research that has never really been conducted before. But an equally valid type of article is a review article, which sums up all the research on a given topic, and points out where more research is needed. This "Fly Casual" article read a lot like a review paper to me, and their is nothing wrong with that.

 

This post is wrong on so many levels. Majority of people likes clear, balanced set of rules, and games that play fast. Also a lot of people likes rivalry, outsmarting their opponents and winning. Because of that I, and many others, play tournament format.

If you want your "thematic borefest" way of playing go organize your group and play this way. But you cannot denial that majority of people prefer tournament play - the reason is one; for many it got bigger appeal.

 

Oh, I am definitely going to "denial that the majority of people prefer tournament play." I know SO many people that own this game, and don't ever make it to the shop. But the point is that they have bought in, and that's what FFG is interested in. Now that they have picked up the core set and maybe a couple of expansion packs, FFG wants to keep them around instead of losing them when they try out tournaments and find out it isn't their thing.

 

Now, I will totally agree with you that 1) the majority of people on the FFG forums are tournament players or at least have played in tournaments before. There's no denying that. And 2) across the world, the majority of X-wing games played are almost certainly tournament-style games because at a large tournament you can have hundreds of games played in a single day -- the casual crowd doesn't get together and do that. So  from a certain point of view, you may be right. It doesn't discredit the folks who like to play the game in different ways. I think we can all get along without saying one is better than the other. I love tournaments, myself, but I can't make it as often as I'd like due to family constraints, and as my boys grow older I will probably play a lot of the non-tournament game modes with them.

Edited by Parakitor

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I have also been waiting for a "real" news on X-wing but stil I don't think the article is a waste of space. X-wing can be truly more fun when trying different stuff from time to time. 100 pts is the standard format of course and will always be the most played but still leaving the usual path opens whole new horizons.

Since I am not a tournament player I play 100 pts pretty rarely. Most of the time we play with three players each one a different faction and each one 150 pts. That changes the tactics and the value of several combinations completely. Since you have two different enemies on the board and 150pts can mean much more "burst damage" on the first firephase so you have to play different. Furthermore there are far more ships around what makes it neccessary to plan several turns in advance.

 

Of course I know this is a pretty unique setting but it is really fun to play. I also know that most players are not really interested in exotic forms of playing but still I think that trying out several custom formats can be very fun and might also make you a better player (since the game changes massivly when altering just the points). You will be able to play completely different setups and not encounter mostly the same meta-setups all the time. So the article does make sense in some way...but still...I would have preferred "Veterans now on sale" ;)

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This post is wrong on so many levels. Majority of people likes clear, balanced set of rules, and games that play fast. Also a lot of people likes rivalry, outsmarting their opponents and winning. Because of that I, and many others, play tournament format.

If you want your "thematic borefest" way of playing go organize your group and play this way. But you cannot denial that majority of people prefer tournament play - the reason is one; for many it got bigger appeal.

 

Oh, I am definitely going to "denial that the majority of people prefer tournament play." I know SO many people that own this game, and don't ever make it to the shop. But the point is that they have bought in, and that's what FFG is interested in. Now that they have picked up the core set and maybe a couple of expansion packs, FFG wants to keep them around instead of losing them when they try out tournaments and find out it isn't their thing.

 

Now, I will totally agree with you that 1) the majority of people on the FFG forums are tournament players or at least have played in tournaments before. There's no denying that. And 2) across the world, the majority of X-wing games played are almost certainly tournament-style games because at a large tournament you can have hundreds of games played in a single day -- the casual crowd doesn't get together and do that. So  from a certain point of view, you may be right. It doesn't discredit the folks who like to play the game in different ways. I think we can all get along without saying one is better than the other. I love tournaments, myself, but I can't make it as often as I'd like due to family constraints, and as my boys grow older I will probably play a lot of the non-tournament game modes with them.

 

 

 

I absolutely do not disregard casual players. What I disregard is a certain type of entitlement presented by some of the casual players who think tournament format should bow down to their assumptions about "proper way" of playing X-Wing.

 

What I would also like to notice is the fact that a force that drives given game and its community forward are, more often than not, tournament players. Typically they are the most motivated, no nonsense types, that likes to organize events and participate in them. Also they are probably the ones who loves the game the most - they put a lot of effort and money to win games of X-Wing, and if u do this in your free time you clearly have to love game. A lot of casual players are exactly that - casual, they would play from time to time, buy one or two expansions and then leave game chasing another "flavour of the month" toy. Look at WFB, thanks to tournament community this games still exists and gets played (in case of WFB it took form of fan project 9th Age).

 

Rivalry lies in human nature - in my opinion every reasonable activity where you can declare winner will build up sooner or later competitve community. Just look at sports. And it is good, because competing is a powerful driving force, builds communities and more often than not, provides new participants, fans and ideas to the game.

Edited by Embir82

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OK....seriously, though, there is a problem.  Just today someone started a topic about how they played an awesome game of Epic and how much fun they were having once they abandoned the tournament style of the game.  Here's what someone's response was:

 

I envy you sir. I'll be leaving the game soon. The competitive environment has crushed my spirits too much.

 

Seems like the article states the obvious. Do we really need someone to remind you/us to play for fun?

 

I know that it might seem obvious that you can play the game that you want, but I had just read the above quote earlier in the day that the article was released.  I really think there are people that could use the article as a reminder of different ways to play.  

 

 

On one hand though I would hate for X-Wing to become a casual play oriented game where player enjoyment was more important than a tight ruleset and comprehensive game mechanics.

 

Tournament X-wing won't ever go away.  That doesn't mean they can't promote the Casual side of things a bit more, either.  Tight rules systems built on tournament levels ensure that the Casual game system is working well, too.  I'm a casual player, but I don't mind the tournament scene.  You won't ever see the tournament play disappear for pure fluff campaigns.  Still, it would be nice if they threw us casual players a bone every now and again.  I'm sure if they did, though, there would be the tournament types that would say we were taking away FFG's resources to work on "real" X-wing stuff.  

 

 

I absolutely do not disregard casual players. What I disregard is a certain type of entitlement presented by some of the casual players who think tournament format should bow down to their assumptions about "proper way" of playing X-Wing.

 

Majority of people likes clear, balanced set of rules, and games that play fast. Also a lot of people likes rivalry, outsmarting their opponents and winning. Because of that I, and many others, play tournament format.

If you want your "thematic borefest" way of playing go organize your group and play this way. But you cannot denial that majority of people prefer tournament play - the reason is one; for many it got bigger appeal.

 

The top post seems at odds with the bottom post here.  I know you were reacting to Chucknuckle's post and might have been a bit aggressive in your response, but I often see some tournament players talk about casual X-wing the way you do in this latter post.  "Thematic borefest" is probably how a lot of people consider non-tournament X-wing.  Personally, I think that's a shame.  I am a very competitive player, but I'm retired from the tournament scene.  If I happen to play a Mission or campaign, I'm highly competitive and want to win.  I find the rivalry and outsmarting my opponents in these games that I also found in tournament games.  They aren't mutually exclusive.  I think there are some hard core tournament players that would probably enjoy some other ways to play if they ever tried.  It's OK if they don't, though.  

 

Overall, I think there are more people who don't mind playing both tournament and casual play.  There doesn't have to be the conflict between the two.  I know Regionals are going to be finishing up and there will be a lot of people burnt out on tournament X-wing.  Or maybe just tired of the meta.  I know I can usually rope in some of the tournament guys into HotAC, a Mission, or just a B-team list game for fun.  Oh, or just flying Generics.  I find that to be a lot of fun.  It can be just as competitive as a normal game, but just plays differently.  

Edited by heychadwick

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SNIP

 

 

Also coming from WFB and a former GW employee

 

GW up until very recently has not cared about their customers or their needs. Let me be clear I was told, as an employee, to actively discourage competitive play and ignore the community at large. I didn't do it, and hence my store actually made money, but they firmly believed that they didn't need to.

 

I also played competitive WFB up until the very end, and 40k both when GW supported and didn't support the scene. The support of the system by FFG is amazing and really makes it a ton of fun. WFB didn't have that until the Masters circuit was created, and 40k's tournament system IMO is a joke when compared to the WORLD WIDE system FFG has created. I mean look at it, FFG has created a tiered system building toward a world event! these events are being attended on a weekly basis by hundreds if not THOUSANDS of players around the world. That is great to see as a wargamer and something I am glad to be invested in. 

 

 

THAT SAID, the tournaments themselves could benefit from a bit of spice as it were. I do miss random scenarios and tournament packs. Personally, I think that they should reserved for spring kits and such and maybe factor into a world wide campaign or something. 

Edited by Timathius

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As much as I'd love a little spice to the tourney circuit, the local and Regional tourneys are still the best chance for me to get several games of X-Wing in all at once. Having to do a round robin or Swiss matches is an excuse to use the same list several times in a row, which is also a novel experience.

 

The thing is, too, this article comes on the tail of an extraordinary number of new players joining the game. Which is awesome! But between the new core set, The Force Awakens itself, and now the forthcoming Heroes of the Resistance pack, I feel like FFG is merely trying to welcome these new players and make sure they understand how much more to the game there is than 100-point timed dogfighting.

 

The majority of players are casual; the numbers reflect this. The worldwide tournament scene is terrific, but makes up significantly less than half of players and product. Those players deserve some official support too, so to speak.

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THAT SAID, the tournaments themselves could benefit from a bit of spice as it were. I do miss random scenarios and tournament packs. Personally, I think that they should reserved for spring kits and such and maybe factor into a world wide campaign or something. 

 

 

Yeah, I miss the old GW global campaigns.  They were pretty fun.  When I first heard of Assault at Imdar Alpha (or whatever it was called), I got completely excited as I thought it was a new themed event.  No....just a fancy name for a tournament.  It would be great if they had some global campaign with regular games and special missions that let you report your games each week to see overall results.  It would be a hoot!  Well, I think so.  Maybe even special pilots for just that campaign?  

 

I liked the old WFB boxed set campaigns and even wrote a 4 piece campaign that I put on Mission Control based on that kind of idea.

 

I remember when they added in random scenarios for tournament play.  All the hard core tournament players freaked out!  They said it would kill the tournament scene.  They said it would never work.  It did work and it made the tournament scene better.  It was pretty good.  I think if they introduced some sort of random mission into tournament play that it would also be really cool.  We would see much gnashing of teeth, but I might go back to tournament play if that were the case.  Or make two types of events.  Some tournaments with missions and some with none.  

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THAT SAID, the tournaments themselves could benefit from a bit of spice as it were. I do miss random scenarios and tournament packs. Personally, I think that they should reserved for spring kits and such and maybe factor into a world wide campaign or something. 

 

 

Yeah, I miss the old GW global campaigns.  They were pretty fun.  When I first heard of Assault at Imdar Alpha (or whatever it was called), I got completely excited as I thought it was a new themed event.  No....just a fancy name for a tournament.  It would be great if they had some global campaign with regular games and special missions that let you report your games each week to see overall results.  It would be a hoot!  Well, I think so.  Maybe even special pilots for just that campaign?  

 

I liked the old WFB boxed set campaigns and even wrote a 4 piece campaign that I put on Mission Control based on that kind of idea.

 

I remember when they added in random scenarios for tournament play.  All the hard core tournament players freaked out!  They said it would kill the tournament scene.  They said it would never work.  It did work and it made the tournament scene better.  It was pretty good.  I think if they introduced some sort of random mission into tournament play that it would also be really cool.  We would see much gnashing of teeth, but I might go back to tournament play if that were the case.  Or make two types of events.  Some tournaments with missions and some with none.  

 

 

I was pretty stoked for the Imdaar Alpha event as well; I managed to win the one I went to and was super excited to have a Phantom early.

 

I would absolutely love scenario tourneys though. Something like where you submit two lists ahead of time or at registration, then when everyone is in, you reveal the terms of the scenario and scoring and then let everyone pick which list to stick with for the rest of the day.

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