Cobas Haven

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

Woah legit...
To me this is a pretty big deal! First hero that is from a faction normally considered evil or an enemy of the free peoples of Middle Earth....

[Gizlivadi 1,089]

Cool! Imrahil for Flame of the West then it seems.

The only bad thing about this is that it happened and Leadership Turch didn't.

[wehehe 39]

When I was counting the FFG created heroes I forgot Lanwyn.

 

Definetively, we are in front of the cycle with more FFG created heroes. (at least 3 of the 8 heroes in the cycle are not official: Lanwyn, Argalad and Na'asiyah). This is a small disappointment for me.

[Ecthelion III 382]

Woah legit...

To me this is a pretty big deal! First hero that is from a faction normally considered evil or an enemy of the free peoples of Middle Earth....

[cough] Grima [cough]

[Nickpes 137]

Nice looking girl, being tactics make her a bit dangerous though for family

[Gizlivadi 1,089]

I remember someone saying Na'asiyah was ugly looking. I wonder what he or she thinks of ther hero art.

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

 

Woah legit...

To me this is a pretty big deal! First hero that is from a faction normally considered evil or an enemy of the free peoples of Middle Earth....

[cough] Grima [cough]

 

well yes but Grima was part of the Rohirrim and we have no idea at what point he actually turned and became an agent for Saruman. Theoretically in the time frame the game takes place in Grima may not have fallen to evil just yet and may not have been an agent for Saruman just yet either. Seventeen years is a pretty decent chunk of time and he may have turned like halfway through this time frame which leaves a good 8 or so years during which he may well have been actually looking out for Theodens interests and may still have been a genuine advisor. 

At the end of the day though he is a man of Rohan and is only evil or an enemy once he turns and becomes a spy for Saruman.

Technically Saruman should fall into this category as well as he was originally noble but also turned to evil at some point. 

The corsairs and people of Umbar have been enemies of the free peoples since the downfall of Numenor during the second age. Yes we know that the Haradrim, men of Rhun, Dunlendings etc are not necessarily "evil" races of men but have simply been influenced/enslaved by the Dark Lord or in the case of the Dunlendings have faced many hardships and set backs and so have turned to savages and mainly ally with Saruman to get revenge on the Rohirrim who displaced them. These are all groups of people that are in league with the Dark Lord or are considered to be evil/savage and have been for quite some time. We have no idea when or why Grima changed his allegiances. So while I totally get where you are coming from I definitely disagree and think there is a massive difference between being given an early version of a character who was originally good and turned and being given a character from a race that we have always known to be completely in league with the Dark lord and have always considered to be "evil" or at least allied with and a supporter of the great enemy. 

To be completely completely honest I am a little disappointed/skeptical that they have made her into a hero. I mean it was obvious that we would get her or Sahir but I actually really wished that they just appeared again/multiple times as objective allies rather than getting an actual hero version of her. She makes 0 thematic sense in the vast majority of scenarios and it will just feel so wrong playing her in any quest before the Dreamchaser cycle. Hell even in the Dreamchaser cycle there will be AT LEAST 2 or 3 quests and potentially more which you cannot use her in anyway because her ally/enemy version is already part of the scenario. 

Anything prior to Dreamchaser cycle just makes zero sense using her ESPECIALLY most of the Against the Shadow cycle which has you fighting Black Numenorians and in some quests (Peril in Pelargir) you are fighting human spies and thugs (and the Umbar assassin!!) who are most likely FROM Umbar. The narrative and reason for why she has betrayed her homeland and sided with the free peoples has not taken place or been explained at this point in the game so she just makes zero sense.

Having hobbits, eagles, ents, ponies WHATEVER appear in mines or on ships or having Dwarves fight alongside Elves or having Grima/Saruman feature in quests after they have already become evil are all unthematic as well but for some reason seem far more acceptable and reasonable than having a hero that is essentially from Umbar and potentially descended from Black Numenorians. I'm not even that overly obsessed with theme (more than happy putting Steward on anyone etc) but for some reason this particular inclusion in the game just seems completely wrong to me. 

Even a Dunlending hero would have been better as not only did we very specifically ally with a handful of them in the actual game narrative but they are far less "evil" than the Umbar or Haradrim in that they are more just savages and feral than actually bad or evil. They are simply a displaced people who have bad blood with the Rohirrim and if anything feel like they themselves have been wronged. The Umbar, Haradrim, Easterlings etc serve the Dark Lord and are well aware of the things he does and is capable of, they serve in fear and whether or not they consider themselves evil per say theres no way that they don't realise how dark and truly terrible he is. They are exposed to the Ring wraiths and other fell creatures, have to fight side by side with Orcs and Trolls and worse. 

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Basically, I hear you saying you'll get over it.  Not that you're saying that you'll get over it, but that you're saying you've gotten over Eagles in Moria.  This too will become OK in time.

 

Also, the art from the Grima card comes from art of Grima standing with Saruman.  And his ability Dooms you.  He's totally turned already.

[Gizlivadi 1,089]

Just give us hero Saruman already FFG! And Radagast, and Alatar and Pallando.

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

Basically, I hear you saying you'll get over it.  Not that you're saying that you'll get over it, but that you're saying you've gotten over Eagles in Moria.  This too will become OK in time.

 

Also, the art from the Grima card comes from art of Grima standing with Saruman.  And his ability Dooms you.  He's totally turned already.

Nah I gotta be honest here. I will more than likely never use the Na'aisayah hero in any way. I have only found myself being more and more of a stickler for theme as I get more into the game and these days when there are unthematic allies (attachments and events are not as important) in my decks I strive to remove them even if it slightly weakens the deck. Currently trying to replace copies of Envoy of Pelargir simply because they are not Elven. 

Pretty much so long as something is fairly thematic or I can at least create head cannon for why it is thematic (for example Azain Silverbeard in Elvish decks because they already feature Gimli because Legolas is also part of the decks and he and Gimli are inseparable by the end and are responsible for massively improving dwarf/elf relations therefore Azain might be a dwarf who is close to or follows Gimli and hence is also more agreeable around Elves than most dwarves would be) then I will include it. If I can't even make up a believable narrative in my own head as to why a card could be included then I will not run it. 

I cannot think of any reason that an Umbar Corsair would be so far from home, travelling around and helping the free peoples prior to the events of the Dreamchaser cycle. Even if there WAS a corsair who tried to do this there would probably be too much distrust and anger from the people and Men of the West and they would not fight alongside or with such an individual. 

Also just for the record I never had any issue with Eagles in Moria, I just listed it because its a pretty main point of contention when it comes to theme and whatnot and so I thought I would state that it is something I don't have issue with yet do have issue with this hero. 

Hmmmmmm very good point that his art depicts him standing with Saruman though.... and yes he does give doomed....

if he has turned already then its a pretty stupid card to be honest.... I like to think that it is Saruman and Grima after they have turned but before ANYONE is aware of this fact and they are still keeping up an act. Perhaps Grima is constantly making trips to Orthanc for Theodon and Rohan as an emissary and through this he is eventually swayed by Saruman to serve him as well and ultimately betray his original master for Saruman's gain. Also just to prove my point that I am not at all indicating I will get over it I have no played Grima either and probably never will. The very idea of playing with him feels traitorous and wrong   

I've also never used the Saruman ally.

Even when I eventually take my Elven decks apart and create some great thematic Rohan/Gondor decks I will not even consider Grima in the Rohan lineup. 

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Yeah I think it's probably intended that we are getting Grima before he turns.  They just didn't want to commission additional art so they cropped the VOI cover art for both Saruman and Grima... The Doomed kind of breaks with the theme of him not yet having turned, unless you try to themurder it and say every adventure he goes in becomes useful intel for him later on, so the more you use him the more Doomed you are...

 

Seriously awesome hero though.  Just hard to sell in multiplayer.  

 

Saruman is on my list of cards that I want to use but actually never have.

[John Constantine 967]

To each of it's own, I guess. Since Grima came out, he was one of my most used heroes, and was present in 90% stuff I made that involved Lore. I love redemption thematically. His ability is also one of the most useful solo abilities ever. 

[blinky 66]

Wow, very excited about this. I love the FFG-created heroes, especially now we get back story for them. Only slight disappointment is that it spoils some of the story for this cycle.

[donkler 199]

I'm totally fine with Na'asiya being slightly out of theme if it opens the doors later for a Mûmakil hero that cannot take more than 3 damage a round 

[dalestephenson 1,482]

I must confess that I am a little put off by a Corsair "hero".  OTOH, I think it's possible to get too dogmatic about the "evil" of Haradrim, Easterlings, or even Corsairs -- especially as individuals.  Are the corsairs of Umbar so different in their hatred of Gondor than the conflict between Rhuardar and Arthedain?  Yet no one objected to a Dunedain descended from Rhuadar in the last cycle.

 

Through most of the third age, the wars fomented against the descendants of Elendil were instigated by Sauron, but that was long not known in the west and may not have been known by the peoples stirred up by them.  Sauron didn't declare himself openly until 2951, and by then his power was sufficiently mighty that it would take a bold Southron or Easterling to resist.  Even free realms feared to defy him, Gloin feared King Brand would yield to Sauron, though in the event he would not.

 

At an individual level, Sam certainly wondered if the Southrons were all evil:

 

"He was glad that he could not see the dead face.  He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace..."

 

We know that Sauron kept slaves and ruled by fear.  After the fall of Sauron, we see a variety of reactions from the human opponents:

 

"But the Men of Rhun and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West.  And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude, hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle.  But the most part fled eastward as they could, and some cast their weapons down and sued for mercy."

 

Would a renegade Corsair be ostracized among the free peoples?  Not necessarily, especially if she could pass for one of them.  We know that Aragorn served both in Rohan and Gondor in disguise, with no one but Denethor apparently realizing his true ancestry, and we're explicitly told that Denethor's father Ecthelion II "encouraged all men of worth from near or far to enter his service, and those who proved trustworthy he gave rank and reward."  To be fair, I doubt any of those who did were (at least known to be) Southrons, because Damrod says "'Tis many lives of Men since any passed to or fro between us."  But the Haradrim had "dark faces" (per Gollum), which she does not.  The face tatoo may be a little hard to explain, though.

 

At any rate, I'm not going to condemn her as an impossible hero until I see the full story and backstory.  I also won't condemn her as a cruddy 1/2/2 tactics hero until I see what her card text says.

[FetaCheese 194]

If they gave us any of those I might be forced to invest in this cycle. Fortunately it's been easy to ignore so far.

Aren't they developing the Dale trait this cycle?

In any case,I am looking forward to this heroine. I don't think having a turncoat or mercenary Southron(?) join our merry band of adventurers 17 years before the war is particularly egregious. I am not super excited about her or anything, but I'd rather get a homebrewed hero rather than a different sphere established hero. Can someone more savvy tell me what canon characters haven't appeared yet in the game?

Also maybe her inclusion points to us visiting her lands sooner rather than later?

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

I'm totally fine with Na'asiya being slightly out of theme if it opens the doors later for a Mûmakil hero that cannot take more than 3 damage a round 

This made me laugh.

Action: Exhaust Ghost Face Mumakill-ah to force the encounter deck to flip the table and loudly exclaim "really? Mumakil during setup? time to scoop!"

[PsychoRocka 1,189]

 

If they gave us any of those I might be forced to invest in this cycle. Fortunately it's been easy to ignore so far.

Aren't they developing the Dale trait this cycle?

In any case,I am looking forward to this heroine. I don't think having a turncoat or mercenary Southron(?) join our merry band of adventurers 17 years before the war is particularly egregious. I am not super excited about her or anything, but I'd rather get a homebrewed hero rather than a different sphere established hero. Can someone more savvy tell me what canon characters haven't appeared yet in the game?

Also maybe her inclusion points to us visiting her lands sooner rather than later?

 

We still don't have Thranduil which is just becoming insane as we continue to get FFG created characters and second or even third versions of characters we have had for so long. 

Radagast desperately needs a new version as his ally version is just awful (yes in very niche decks he is not bad but in general he is considered to be pretty terrible).

Gildor should REALLY have a hero version and not just an ally.

Lindir has an ally version but we could still get a hero for him. 

An eagle hero is something many people seem to want as well (not me!).

Many people want a farmer maggot hero or at least a new version of him.

Same goes for Grimbeorn. 

Also many people want new versions of Elrohir and Elladan (I am MASSIVELY in this group and cannot wait to get new versions of them). 

There are also more obscure characters like Duinhir, Targon, Bergil, Iorlas etc who may not necessarily get hero cards but will potentially get ally cards. I used to be fairly against us receiving some of these minor characters but am a bit more open to it now. 

[donkler 199]

I am hoping it is a good sign for the life of the game that they are waiting to put out some of these big names as heroes. Once a cycle starts doing nothing but filling in the obvious gaps, I'm going to worry it will be the last one.

[Gizlivadi 1,089]

The lack of Thranduil shouldn't be surprising. They're clearly trying to stretch out the game, but we'll definitely get him.

[Nickpes 137]

I have a feeling that we will not get a Thranduil hero untill they decide to stop the game. He will be one of the last ones IMO

[PocketWraith 553]

Whereas I have a feeling he may well turn up in the next deluxe expansion, because he's a significant enough character to warrant a deluxe release, we haven't had a deluxe focused around Silvans yet, and there's a decent amount more stuff they could do in Rhovanion quest-wise.

[FetaCheese 194]

I am hoping it is a good sign for the life of the game that they are waiting to put out some of these big names as heroes. Once a cycle starts doing nothing but filling in the obvious gaps, I'm going to worry it will be the last one.

Why would you worry about it? Named characters are limited but the world is vast and we have explored very little of it. There is no reason the game won't go on for a long time, with FFG characters or not. After all the basic premise of the game is that it takes place some years before the events start in the books... so there is plenty of room for homebrew stuff.

Edited May 20, 2016 by FetaCheese

[Edheliad 145]

 

I am hoping it is a good sign for the life of the game that they are waiting to put out some of these big names as heroes. Once a cycle starts doing nothing but filling in the obvious gaps, I'm going to worry it will be the last one.

Why would you worry about it? Named characters are limited but the world is vast and we have explored very little of it. There is no reason the game won't go on for a long time, with FFG characters or not. After all the basic premise of the game is that it takes place some years before the events start in the books... so there is plenty of room for homebrew stuff.

 

 

The world of the events in the books isn't that vast, and FFG will have covered most of it by the time Flame of the West appears.

 

There is a "vast" world implied by snippets of text and white areas beyond the borders of the map, but the popularity of the licence (any licence, really) comes from reproducing familiar elements. An expansion that is all FFG fanfiction will garner a lot less interest than one featuring Thranduil and Mirkwood, for the same amount of effort.

 

As my card pool and number of adventures to play gets bigger, I'm certainly getting more picky about what I buy. If an expansion doesn't feel important I'm content to overlook it.

[banania 275]

Following the trend the next deluxe should focus on one of the major trait of the game. We had the Dwarf one, Gondor, Rohan, Dunedain and Noldor ones. Silvan and Hobbit should get their own deluxe.