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theninthguardian

Advice against Palp Aces?

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I love people going after Fel first when I play Palp-Aces. He just evades arcs (losing shots himself is fine) or turtles as appropriate. An unharried Vader then starts landing crits given he's been allowed to go fuil offense action-wise whilst the shuttle adds fire support where it can.

 

Obviously if you have anti-Soontir tricks then that changes things, but a generic list should always go for Vader, Fel, Shuttle, in that order.

 

Also, I'm not sure why 'leave the shuttle for end game' is being read as 'leave Soontir for the end game'.

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You suggest leaving Fel to the end game, Krynn.  Which is exactly what Fel wants.  It's playing into his hands.

 

Vader isn't as maneuverable as Fel, and has worse defense.  He can wait.  The Shuttle has terrible manueverability, and you get half points if you score just five hits against it.  It can wait.

 

Fel, on the other hand, gets strogner the longer the game goes on, because once you start losing ships (and shots) he becomes increasingly difficult to take down.

 

Your best chance to take Fel down is when you have all of your ships on the board, and can get multiple shots on him.

 

Maybe your tactic of ignoring the most potent threat in the list and leaving possibly the biggest end game beast in the game to the end game has worked for you, but it's still the worst advice ever.

My experience with fel is he just dodges my arcs, and or evades all my shots.

Leaving me take fire from everything else, while not doing any dmg myself

Personally I can never seem to hit him with his 4 dice and emperor, plus focuses and evades.

Switching to take out Vader fast had worked for me.

Which if I can do fast enough go for the shuttle which drops quick, making it easier to hit fel

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+1 for Feedback Array. If nothing else it seriously dissuades them from coming into R1, and if you're aggressive with it (or they drift into R1 anyway) you can really cause some hurt. 

 

Also a fan of bombs, but they take a lot more practice to make work. I've seen Sabine K-wings with Proxy mines and Ion bombs open up a Palp Aces list like a tin opener. It was kind of gruesome. Works well against a lot of Scum lists, too, but can struggle against Dash or Corran. Decent against T70s though, so Poe should be manageable.

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Well, #1 it's not really a coincidence that Fel is disappearing from tournaments.  The other Imp Aces make a horrible matchup for him - look at the Palp/Wampa/Omega/Inquisitor lists: he can't use Autothrusters vs any of the aces, he can't use Tokens against Wampa or Omega, and he has less dice against Inquisitor at R3.  Usually Soontir is pretty safe out at range but these boys give him fits and he's far too flimsy.

That said.  I'm my experience chasing Soontir first is too difficult and your ships will melt under Vader's fire while Soontir dances away.  Vader has to go first, then you can turn on Soontir.  Unless you've got a LOT of firepower then Shuttle takes too long to kill and should almost always be last.

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During Hangar Bay I've played 3 games against Palp Aces. I won all three games, dealing a lot of damage to aces via combination of Sabine crew and bombs (despite Palpatine).

 

My list was: Super Dash (with Kanan but without EU) & Miranda with Sabine and proximity bombs.

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I love people going after Fel first when I play Palp-Aces..

 

And I'm sure you enjoy having a full health, undamaged Fel knocking around during the end game even more.

 

Which is a thing that happens regardless of weather he is attacked first or not with a lot of lists. Exceptions are lists that can cancel evade results and prevent dice mods (who by all means should go for Fel first so those abilities aren't removed before they can screw him over).

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Kavil with autoblaster and engine upgrade. Might want to throw in r5-p8 and vi, too.

Palob with zuchuss or dengar and tlt.

Most people won't even know what this is or what it does. Make sure to show it to them, at gunpoint.

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I agree with the "Vader first" sentiment.

 

It is easier to damage/kill Vader on the first pass. Ignoring him means a ton of damage is coming through. Plus he tends to be extra vulnerable on the first pass because he uses one action to TL, so basically it's just one token, palp and 4 greens at R3. If you put several guns on him, you are likely to do crippling damage. 

 

Conversely, Fel on the first R3 pass is 3 tokens, palp, autothrusters and 5 greens. Getting through that wastes a lot of hits... It is easier to kill Fel once your ships tangle up, because you have a chance to block. Probably the best way to kill Fel is midgame - wait until you can predict his move and the go "all in" - set up a block with all guns facing him.

 

It is not a good idea to go shuttle first versus an experienced player, he will kite you, make unpredictable moves... I've had more and more trouble with that.  

 

With the omega/wampa/inquisitor build - kill omega first. 

Edited by LesserEvil

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I agree with the "Vader first" sentiment.

 

It is easier to damage/kill Vader on the first pass. Ignoring him means a ton of damage is coming through. Plus he tends to be extra vulnerable on the first pass because he uses one action to TL, so basically it's just one token, palp and 4 greens at R3. If you put several guns on him, you are likely to do crippling damage. 

 

Conversely, Fel on the first R3 pass is 3 tokens, palp, autothrusters and 5 greens. Getting through that wastes a lot of hits... It is easier to kill Fel once your ships tangle up, because you have a chance to block. Probably the best way to kill Fel is midgame - wait until you can predict his move and the go "all in" - set up a block with all guns facing him.

 

It is not a good idea to go shuttle first versus an experienced player, he will kite you, make unpredictable moves... I've had more and more trouble with that.  

 

I think this is right.  Fel drops when he's bumped, but Vader can drop just from pointing guns at him.

 

But once again... neither Fel or Vader are in the most common aces lists at the moment, it's gone to Inquisior/Omega/Wampa.

 

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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I'm of the vader-soontir-shuttle school of thought, but to be honest, I think you have to be flexible in your approach.

 

Good palp players will often squirrel their sith lord away, and bait you with soontir, knowing that a few rounds of fire will melt Vader. switch and bait seems important to a well played palp list. In that kind of situation I might even go for the shuttle first, if it means vader is at range three being a chicken, soontir's gambit has been declined and i've boosted right past him, and the shuttle is sitting there, as it often does, looking all plump and juicy. A corran double-tap and another shot or two is enough to wipe him off the board.

 

Then again, if I see a nailed on blocking chance for soontir, then I'm all about forcing a hit or crit through that guy's stealth nice and early, leaving him all jumpy and angsty for the end game...

 

In short, I think the answer is based on the context of your opponent's actions.

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