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MalusCalibur

"We need your help, Star Fox!"

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If only we had an off topic forum for stuff like this...

You must be a real blast at parties.

 

 

I am sure he is not vomiting on the floor at parties ;-)

Though the mod forum is for this stuff. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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MAD props for remembering Miyu exists! Thank you!

 

 

Now if only Nintendo would remember! I want my brash, tomboy-ish Lynx girl back! (I mean I'm only assuming the brash and tomboy-ish parts, but her appearance in what little official art there was suggests it heavily IMO.)

 

As for the ability, what do you think - too strong? Or just right for the ship she's flying?

 

 

One of my greatest hopes for Star Fox Zero was to have Miyu and Fay in there. Hell, Miyu's actually my phone background right now.

Frankly, I think the ability is just fine. It's crazy good about boosting, and the thing is, flying Miyu means you gotta boost and use PTL or you're not using her to her fullest. I would say the barrel rolling bit is a TOUCH too much though. Just keep it to boosts. Our brash tomboyish hotshot flies right into danger..! Not around it or to its side. :P

But the thing here is, demanding that she use PTL thanks to this boost means she needs a way to clear stress, and frequently. She shouldn't really be able to do it herself, so fellow pilots would be the best solution for that. With that she'd be perfectly balanced.

After all.

Star Fox Members only seem to go it alone when they've gotta do a fateful duel!

 

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Wayyyyy too cheap. The resistance sympathizer is 9 points more expensive for 7 less health, one less defense die, and much fewer upgrade options.

 

Re-read the post.

 

 

Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 

...

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at

 

...

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

 

 

As I stated three times, this is a rough draft. Instead of saying "it's too cheap", then say what you think it should cost. Just saying "It's too cheap" doesn't really help. As for the

upgrade slots, I honestly always found it silly that people should have to pay for slots - the cost of the slot is what you put into it, especially with how pricey Systems and munitions slots can be.

 

I was thinking of changing the base cost to 40 for the basic, and 42-44 for the PS5 version, but I don't know how that compares to others - and I want it to actually be able to carry ships with the "Hangar Pod" Title. Granted, the high cost of the IAC would force you to dock only a single higher-skill/tougher fighter, or low-PS pilots - but that's fitting with the theme. The cannon slot may go - either entirely or with a new missile slot. The idea was to make it HLC-capable, since the primary gun on this thing in-game is quite nasty.

I know it is a rough draft, but that is not how epic ships maneuver. They use an entirely different template which is sadly incompatible with what you have listed on the dial.

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Wayyyyy too cheap. The resistance sympathizer is 9 points more expensive for 7 less health, one less defense die, and much fewer upgrade options.

 

Re-read the post.

 

 

Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 ...

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at

 

...

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

 

 

As I stated three times, this is a rough draft. Instead of saying "it's too cheap", then say what you think it should cost. Just saying "It's too cheap" doesn't really help. As for the

upgrade slots, I honestly always found it silly that people should have to pay for slots - the cost of the slot is what you put into it, especially with how pricey Systems and munitions slots can be.

 

I was thinking of changing the base cost to 40 for the basic, and 42-44 for the PS5 version, but I don't know how that compares to others - and I want it to actually be able to carry ships with the "Hangar Pod" Title. Granted, the high cost of the IAC would force you to dock only a single higher-skill/tougher fighter, or low-PS pilots - but that's fitting with the theme. The cannon slot may go - either entirely or with a new missile slot. The idea was to make it HLC-capable, since the primary gun on this thing in-game is quite nasty.

I know it is a rough draft, but that is not how epic ships maneuver. They use an entirely different template which is sadly incompatible with what you have listed on the dial.

Yeah, that's one 9f the reasons I tried to make it large base instead. Epic ship movement just doesn't do it judtice, imo.

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You know, Malus, all of this talk's got me in the mood to play thee games again. I think I may actually stream 1, 2, 64, and Assault later today, if you and anyone else is interested! Perhaps a recap of the games can help get the creative juices flowing, hm? :)

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Going to be starting between 7 and 7:30 PM Central US time! tonight I'm going to focus on beating all routes for 1, then a playthrough of 2. if time permits, I'll get started on 64! I hope that this will help those involved get the creative juices flowing, and perhaps even inspire some new cards 'n stuff!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/stripeybuttwill

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Going to be starting between 7 and 7:30 PM Central US time! tonight I'm going to focus on beating all routes for 1, then a playthrough of 2. if time permits, I'll get started on 64! I hope that this will help those involved get the creative juices flowing, and perhaps even inspire some new cards 'n stuff!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/stripeybuttwill

Good vids man. Always a big fan of Star Fox. Missed SF1 but got to see some of SF2 which i had never seen before. Good stuff man. If you ever do more just let me know.

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Going to be starting between 7 and 7:30 PM Central US time! tonight I'm going to focus on beating all routes for 1, then a playthrough of 2. if time permits, I'll get started on 64! I hope that this will help those involved get the creative juices flowing, and perhaps even inspire some new cards 'n stuff!

 

https://www.twitch.tv/stripeybuttwill

Good vids man. Always a big fan of Star Fox. Missed SF1 but got to see some of SF2 which i had never seen before. Good stuff man. If you ever do more just let me know.

 

Sure thing! You should've stuck around - beat 2 on Expert difficulty - with Miyu, one of the two most fragile characters in the game! :P Hopefully we can get Malus and Lackwit in on this, get the ideas really going!

Edited by Kepora

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If you want to make your custom ships ideally balanced, then I can help.  I actually deduced the FFG formula for determining ship stats.  You can look HERE for more information, but in a nutshell the stats for your Arwing at PS1 would be exactly 18 points.  System slots usually cost around half a point, so the total cost of a "Cornerian Test Pilot" would be ideally balanced at ~19 points with 20 points probably being too conservatively priced.

 

As far as your pilots go... Falco and Fox's abilities are fun, interesting, and spot on.  Peppy's ability is PERFECT, but why does the most experienced member of the squad have no EPT?  That bothers me.  Slippy's ability in the Star Fox games has always been very clear and very consistent, he analyzes enemy ships.  If you ever had Slippy die, you can't see the boss health bar.  Slippy is the one with the technical know-how to do that.  He's the Donatello of the team.

 

Slippy's pilot ability should represent his technical prowess, probably with something as simple and useful as allowing friendly nearby ships (including himself) to target lock, even if they don't have it on their action bar.

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If you want to make your custom ships ideally balanced, then I can help.  I actually deduced the FFG formula for determining ship stats.  You can look HERE for more information, but in a nutshell the stats for your Arwing at PS1 would be exactly 18 points.  System slots usually cost around half a point, so the total cost of a "Cornerian Test Pilot" would be ideally balanced at ~19 points with 20 points probably being too conservatively priced.

 

As far as your pilots go... Falco and Fox's abilities are fun, interesting, and spot on.  Peppy's ability is PERFECT, but why does the most experienced member of the squad have no EPT?  That bothers me.  Slippy's ability in the Star Fox games has always been very clear and very consistent, he analyzes enemy ships.  If you ever had Slippy die, you can't see the boss health bar.  Slippy is the one with the technical know-how to do that.  He's the Donatello of the team.

 

Slippy's pilot ability should represent his technical prowess, probably with something as simple and useful as allowing friendly nearby ships (including himself) to target lock, even if they don't have it on their action bar.

I REALLY like that! An ability that encourages you to fly together? Yes please! Also helps the Arwing deal with pesky blank dixe.

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Excellent post and idea. I will bringing these to the next store tourney (seriously).

 

But I have to say, if it hasn't been said already, I think your Generic Arwing is about 2-3 points overcosted. The retro arwing title kinda makes up for it but you lose a systems slot. I think it might be more valuable to either recost the generic arwing as opposed to changing up the titles requirements.

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Excellent post and idea. I will bringing these to the next store tourney (seriously).

 

But I have to say, if it hasn't been said already, I think your Generic Arwing is about 2-3 points overcosted. The retro arwing title kinda makes up for it but you lose a systems slot. I think it might be more valuable to either recost the generic arwing as opposed to changing up the titles requirements.

 

As Forbidden said. I'd drop them all 3-4 points, personally. Plus it means if you go light on upgrades, you can use all four!

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As far as your pilots go... Falco and Fox's abilities are fun, interesting, and spot on.  Peppy's ability is PERFECT, but why does the most experienced member of the squad have no EPT?  That bothers me.  Slippy's ability in the Star Fox games has always been very clear and very consistent, he analyzes enemy ships.  If you ever had Slippy die, you can't see the boss health bar.  Slippy is the one with the technical know-how to do that.  He's the Donatello of the team.

 

Slippy's pilot ability should represent his technical prowess, probably with something as simple and useful as allowing friendly nearby ships (including himself) to target lock, even if they don't have it on their action bar.

 

Certainly that's fitting, but I think Slippy is more clearly remembered for his incompetence and whinging than the health bar thing, the same way Peppy is most clearly remembered for 'Do a Barrel Roll', even though his role on the team is clearly far more than that.

 

The generic Arwing may well be overpriced, and in all honesty I'm tempted to leave it that way - it's included mostly as an afterthought (since there really aren't any generic Arwings in the Star Fox universe) and for completeness.

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Fair point - I suppose what I mean is that the generic is a lower priority for me to sort out :)

So, I finally actually FLEW the Arwing in a game today, and I loved how it played (Fox with SF title [for theme], Expert Mode [new name for my Expertise since FFG reached into my head and stole my thoughts...], G-Diffuser and Twin Blaster) - the double-roll or double-boost in particular make Fox fascinating.

He flew alongside Thane Kyrell (Title, Tail Gunner, Vectored Thrusters) and a PS2 U-Wing (Title, FCS, Jan Ors, Jyn Erso) since I had to quickly throw a list together, and though it came down to Fox V Poe at the end, old Mr McCloud couldn't quite kill him fast enough.

Expert Mode feels like it could be 3pts instead of 2, though the fact that Tractor Beams so heavily counter it suggest that perhaps it doesn't need to be. Other than that, the 40pt cost of the above Fox build felt 'right' - he was effective, but not dominating.

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Hey man, your yucky photo f***-it account links are broken. :( And it's been some time; are you still working on this project? I do plan to try and get the models 3D printed someday, and you said you were working on a Star Wolf set, too...

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I've fixed all the links (read: moved everything away from Photobucket and their BS) so hopefully all things Star Fox should be visible again!

19 hours ago, Kepora said:

Hey man, your yucky photo f***-it account links are broken. :( And it's been some time; are you still working on this project? I do plan to try and get the models 3D printed someday, and you said you were working on a Star Wolf set, too...

I am indeed, admittedly more sporadically than before. I've made changes to a couple of the Arwing cards, and yes, I have more or less finished the Wolfen expansion - I was hoping to get and paint the model before posting it, but procrastination has got in the way of that a smidge.

Here are the cards I've altered:

2my2iqv.jpg

As I mentioned earlier, FFG releasing an Expertise card meant mine had to be changed (grumble...), and so I had to go with the slightly clunkier 'Expert Mode' name. I've also changed the effect to be two die rerolls rather than all of them - the latter was a little too much (especially when range bonuses were factored in) and so now it's toned down to match a 'conditions met' Predator or Dengar, which seems much fairer.


nq2wq0.jpg

This one is a still a work in progress, as the Strange Eons plugin doesn't have the Quadjumpers' reverse moves - however they are the perfect fit to reduce the wordiness of this card, so I've just put placeholders there for now. I've also added a free evade to the move, both as incentive to actually use it (as I think it was a bit too expensive for what it offered before) as well as more closely representing the in-game somersault: during said somersault you couldn't boost, brake or shoot with any accuracy, but you could still barrel (aileron) roll for defence. For balance, though, I've made it so collisions prevent you getting it, along the same lines as TIE x/7. It also went down a point, but that's still open to alteration as it's a hard one to judge the cost of.


8ys0ep.jpg

After some thought I realised that being able to hand out barrel rolls might break the game in half in the case of certain large-base ships, and so now Peppy's ability has the caveat of needing the target ship to already have the barrel roll icon. To ensure his ability isn't useless for ships that don't, they get a focus instead. I've also given him an EPT - he is, after all, a veteran of the original Star Fox team and a more experienced pilot than anybody else!


o6adcg.jpg

Just a minor wording change here: I cut the 'if able' clause from the end, as it isn't needed - it's inferred already.

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Expert Mode is neat, just...it seems like losing the card AND taking damage for overlapping seems...I dunno, unnecessary. Like...why would you ever take it? I will say I like the fix for G-Diffuser; much more elegant wording, and it actually looks worthwhile to take. The addition of the reverse maneuvers really does help cover the fact the Arwing can angle left or right into the loop!

Edited by Kepora

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On 20 October 2017 at 8:47 AM, Kepora said:

Expert Mode is neat, just...it seems like losing the card AND taking damage for overlapping seems...I dunno, unnecessary. Like...why would you ever take it? I will say I like the fix for G-Diffuser; much more elegant wording, and it actually looks worthwhile to take. The addition of the reverse maneuvers really does help cover the fact the Arwing can angle left or right into the loop!

It works that way to synergise properly with the Twin Blaster - i.e. that you will lose it if you collide with anything, just as you would when playing Expert Mode in the game. You'd take it because it offers the same benefit as an 'always-on' Predator or Dengar crew for only 2pts, and if you're flying well then you shouldn't be losing it :)
As for the G-Diffuser, it could angle into the loop before, it was just quite wordy!

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On 10/20/2017 at 8:47 AM, Kepora said:

Expert Mode is neat, just...it seems like losing the card AND taking damage for overlapping seems...I dunno, unnecessary.

I think hitting an obstacle is fair, but it's a bit easy to block with ships. Maybe just drop the 'another ship' clause?

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14 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I think hitting an obstacle is fair, but it's a bit easy to block with ships. Maybe just drop the 'another ship' clause?

Tempting, but flying into other ships (even your wingmates!) would still break your wing and lose you your weapon powerup in the game, and while blocking is easily done it still seems fair, as Expert Mode is still a very powerful bonus to have. Blocking can be avoided with good flying, after all, and Expert Mode requires..nay, demands that you fly well!

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