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Think im going to buy the ships so i can do this. And of course if im buying the Arwings i need 4 so even if its a larger game i can field the whole team (and ensure Slippy dies first....).

 

But, thats 64USD before shipping rofl. Ouch. Already breached my monthly non-essential funds this month thanks to the third ferret i just got and Armada stuff lol so i'll probably do it next month.

 

There is one balance thing i noticed that im concerned about.  Charged Laser vs Twin Blaster...why would you take Twin Blaster? Both are a mod, one is a secondary weapon other is a primary bonus. Twin Blasters can go away while Charged Laser cant. 

Bet you think im gonna say "Why would you ever take the twin blasters?" but im not - why would you take Charged Lasers? Reasoning is the action requirement to fire it could easily bite you in the ass (no focus for defense, no barrelroll/boost, etc etc). Twin Blasters chance of going away isnt really that high, since 3 shields to get through and its a faceup damage with the Ship trait (which is a majority but not all crits). 

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Think im going to buy the ships so i can do this. And of course if im buying the Arwings i need 4 so even if its a larger game i can field the whole team (and ensure Slippy dies first....).

 

But, thats 64USD before shipping rofl. Ouch. Already breached my monthly non-essential funds this month thanks to the third ferret i just got and Armada stuff lol so i'll probably do it next month.

 

There is one balance thing i noticed that im concerned about.  Charged Laser vs Twin Blaster...why would you take Twin Blaster? Both are a mod, one is a secondary weapon other is a primary bonus. Twin Blasters can go away while Charged Laser cant. 

Bet you think im gonna say "Why would you ever take the twin blasters?" but im not - why would you take Charged Lasers? Reasoning is the action requirement to fire it could easily bite you in the ass (no focus for defense, no barrelroll/boost, etc etc). Twin Blasters chance of going away isnt really that high, since 3 shields to get through and its a faceup damage with the Ship trait (which is a majority but not all crits). 

 

For me it's less about the cost (which I could space out) but more the thought of painting three more of those fiddly buggers...and the Star Fox symbol another six times *shudder*.

 

Regarding Twin Blaster VS Charged Laser, you make a fair point - my counter would be that this is a ship that has access to Fire Control System and Push the Limit with decent green maneuvers, so action economy can be mitigated if you want to build for the Charged Laser, whereas the Twin Blaster is simpler and easier to include without building specifically for it, but carries the risk that is exemplified by Expertise (my version, not the U-Wing card that stole my idea...) which is a tempting choice for EPT.

Consider this also: Fox with the Charged Laser and Deadeye can double-focus as his action, fire the Charged Laser with one of them and save the other for defence. If you give him FCS as well, he can set up modification for himself in advance.

 

As much as anything else, though, a lot of my squad points values here are erring on the side of caution and so may well be too high. In the Charged Laser's case, adding Target Lock as an action is 2pts at present, and the effects of the weapon itself seem comparable to the effectiveness of an Ion Cannon - would you agree with that?

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That is true, Deadeye on Fox with Charged Shot would be mean. Would also make sense thematically since hes the Ace pilot (Falco's all talk)

The main issue was the action economy but he kinda bypasses that, especially if Peppy is around to give him barrelrolls if needed. As someone who runs (or did before Black One completely killed them) Bombers alot, spending your action on a TL every turn usually leads to your death because you lack a focus for defense or reposition to dodge an arc. 

 

Charge Shot is definitely stronger since it negates a little bit of defense and no range bonus. Its just the lack of defense that makes it less optimal. I put it on Fox in my 150pt list (found thats what i need to field all 4 without having them bareboned) because he's the most likely to get the TL and outfly people. Not putting it on anyone else lol. I outta swap the Expertise for Deadeye now that you bring this up.

Pricewise its fine. You get a TL action for 2pts on top of a secondary weapon. I'd have to fly these ships with those dials + Gdiffuser to see how well they handle without reposition moves. Honestly the only reason it feels like such a war between the two is theyre both a mod. Only slot i think would make sense for the Charge Shot is a Cannon, but unless you had it added via the title to mention only Charge Shot may be equipped there it would break the thematic of the ship (since they never used alternate main weapons). 

I think i overanalyzed it a bit (also tbh i totally missed Charge Shot doesnt discard). Im an evasive player, i like to swing wide and take longshots rather than zip in for range1. Charged Shot kinda counters that mentality since i OFTEN need boost/barrelroll to do those tactics.

Edited by Vineheart01

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So, given the high cost of the Arwing (even if it does get reduced a bit), I think the same route could be taken as the ARC-170 and TIE/sf, with free title cards to add extra mechanics/flavor outside of normal upgrades. And what better ability than an innate maneuver present in all Star Fox games, the very meme itself?

 

Q26M0jB.png

 

I think it's a lore-friendly addition to the ship's base stats that (hopefully) won't be too overpowered. It'd really make Peppy's ability all the more appealing to have in a squad, which could help keep your hard-hitters like Falco or Fox alive longer when they're in a tough situation. It could also help keep Slippy alive, meaning you get to use his shenanigans over and over again should the enemy take the bait!

 

And since you suggested I take a crack at the post-64 stuff, here's a crack at what I call the "Mark 3" Arwing - the radical re-design we see in Star Fox Assault. The points cost is not locked-in, I just picked one that seemed fitting given the already rather high price of the ship:

 

hnTU35O.png

 

This seemed like a fitting choice, given that unlike previous iterations, this version of the Arwing is seen performing full stops at least three times in-game, and in at least one instance (like the video above) we see a stationary Arwing jinking to avoid incoming fire. Given how easily they do it (it's simply hovering in place, no stress on the pilots), I'm half-tempted to make it a white maneuver, just add in the caveat that it can't do it twice in a row and/or perform a somersault. Additionally, it could count as a white maneuver that you then gain a stress from - which could pull off some interesting combos if a ship with Kanan crew is around. Thoughts?

 

Also, I need to find the post and give proper credit to who mentioned it - but I DO like the idea of Wolf's pilot ability being that he can boost/barrel roll into enemies and damage them without taking a damage himself - basically making him a hyper-aggressive anti-blocker.

Edited by Kepora

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Honestly the only reason it feels like such a war between the two is theyre both a mod. Only slot i think would make sense for the Charge Shot is a Cannon, but unless you had it added via the title to mention only Charge Shot may be equipped there it would break the thematic of the ship (since they never used alternate main weapons). 

 

Earlier in the design, Charged Laser was in fact a Torpedo upgrade - however, I deliberately made them both Modifications so that a)they would compete with each other, forcing a choice to be made between them and b) to 'lock out' taking Autothrusters unless you were happy relying on a 2-dice primary gun, since 'thrusters would make the ship just that little bit too hard to kill, in my mind - there had to be a trade off.

 

I'm currently reworking the G-Diffuser slightly - functionally it's the same, just clearer...and better.

 

 

I think i overanalyzed it a bit (also tbh i totally missed Charge Shot doesnt discard). Im an evasive player, i like to swing wide and take longshots rather than zip in for range1. Charged Shot kinda counters that mentality since i OFTEN need boost/barrelroll to do those tactics.

 

That's fair, and actually quite accurate to the game - the Charged Shot was better used when you had a bit more time (and range) to ensure you locked onto the right enemy ship and that the laser 'ball' had a clear path. Normal lasers, though, could be button-mashed happily at all times. The fact that the two Modifications veer towards slightly different archetypes makes me very happy indeed.

 

 

So, given the high cost of the Arwing (even if it does get reduced a bit), I think the same route could be taken as the ARC-170 and TIE/sf, with free title cards to add extra mechanics/flavor outside of normal upgrades. And what better ability than an innate maneuver present in all Star Fox games, the very meme itself?

 

Q26M0jB.png

 

I think it's a lore-friendly addition to the ship's base stats that (hopefully) won't be too overpowered. It'd really make Peppy's ability all the more appealing to have in a squad, which could help keep your hard-hitters like Falco or Fox alive longer when they're in a tough situation. It could also help keep Slippy alive, meaning you get to use his shenanigans over and over again should the enemy take the bait!

 

This is all true; however, the defensive shield capacity of the barrel roll is something I already incorporated in another way - by giving the Arwing both the Barrel Roll (the term used in the game even though technically it isn't one) and Evade (the shield effect) actions. This does create a little bit of a disconnect between the original game and the table, but I felt the effect was best achieved in a simpler way (mechanically speaking) than another card.

 

 

hnTU35O.png

 

This seemed like a fitting choice, given that unlike previous iterations, this version of the Arwing is seen performing full stops at least three times in-game, and in at least one instance (like the video above) we see a stationary Arwing jinking to avoid incoming fire. Given how easily they do it (it's simply hovering in place, no stress on the pilots), I'm half-tempted to make it a white maneuver, just add in the caveat that it can't do it twice in a row and/or perform a somersault. Additionally, it could count as a white maneuver that you then gain a stress from - which could pull off some interesting combos if a ship with Kanan crew is around. Thoughts?

 

Clearly I need to play Assault again since I don't remember half of the stuff I see the newer Arwing doing :)

Certainly from my research, the post-Sauria version of the Arwing definitely has improved mobility as a defining feature, and I like the idea of a stop (I was skeptical, but yes, they really do hover in place don't they?). The only thing I'm not sure about is the execution as-written there...how about something along these lines?

 

'Post-Sauria Refit' (I couldn't find an 'official' designation for this version of the ship)

Title. Arwing Only.

 

When you reveal your maneuver dial, you may instead perform a red (0-Stop) maneuver.

 

You may reveal and execute red maneuvers while stressed.

 

If you are stressed, you do not receive additional stress tokens for executing red maneuvers.

 

 

So, you can stop reactively, and you have a super-charged version of Hera. You can't bury yourself in stress, but you arn't immune to it either.

The justification for this one comes from something I'd forgotten about Assault - it's possible to repeatedly U-turn or somersault in quick succession, so this felt like an appropriate analogy for that. Having complete freedom over the Arwing's red moves (and potential somersault-reverse) would make this version phenomenally mobile, but would have to cost a minimum of 2pts (possibly more) to offset the potential to break the game with such an ability on such a potent frame.

 

 

Also, I need to find the post and give proper credit to who mentioned it - but I DO like the idea of Wolf's pilot ability being that he can boost/barrel roll into enemies and damage them without taking a damage himself - basically making him a hyper-aggressive anti-blocker.

 

I like that ability a lot - but not for Mr O'Donnell. I have something already lined up for him that seems to fit just too well to ignore...

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This has been the best post on this forum in a long time. Very well thought out and it looks fun! Great work!

Edit: how did I miss this post when it originally was posted!!?? Regardless, shouldn't we have seen a star wolf post by now? :)

Edited by InstantAequitas

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Alright, I see what you're saying. Just feels kinda off to have the two disjointed, y'know? And if Wolf isn't slicing into people at knife-fight range, then I'm excited to see where that goes!

 

I'm also tinkering with the additional characters in the series outside of the original four, the first one being a personal favorite who gt scrapped with Star Fox 2, Miyu Lynx! I took a note form the YT-1300's play book with special pilots having differnet stats, used here to reflect the unique nature of the modified Arwing that Miyu (and I believe Falco) used in two, the more fragile twin-hull vessel with a MASSIVE boost bar and higher firepower; a true interceptor variant (and my personal favorite to fly; high risk, high reward):

 

rmPhry7.jpg

59ByDCh.png

 

((I totally need to get your templates!))

 

The idea here is that the "interceptor" Awing that was specific to only two pilots in the series' history (granted, it was one appearance), in-game, had a total of 6 "health" rather than the traditional Arwing's 8, but it compensated for higher firepower and mobility. I originally wanted Miyu to be 7, but that's already claimed by Falco, and I'd say she's a better pilot than Peppy. Plus, I can't think of many PS6 ships off the top of my head! To reflect the ship's radical redesign, both the hull and shield have been reduced by one (may bump one of them back to 3), the agility has been locked in at 3, but the attack has been boosted to 3. I kept it an Arwing to keep it compatible with the other cards without needing extra text. Her pilot ability is supposed to reflect what I perceive as an aggressive nature, as well as the sheer maneuverability of the interceptor variant - allowing it to barrel roll using a straight 2, or boost ahead with a 2 bank to pounce on top of an enemy.

 

The initial build idea is to combine it with Overconfidence (the proposed 1 extra attack until hit EPT) and either Autothrusters to make it more survivable, or twin lasers to make it a little monster that the enemy HAS to pin down. Miyu always came off as an aggressive flyer, so this only seemed natural; if you think a points cost/tweak of stats/abilities is in order, then by all means  I'm new to this! I'm trying to figure out Fay and Krystal now  and I think Krystal, Peppy, and ROB deserve crew cards, don't you? :P

 

P.S.: If you wanna discuss ideas over Skype or something, let me know!

Edited by Kepora

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Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 

Z25tRNg.jpg

kVMggYO.jpg

Nk5FZDH.png

 

 

Now this monster of a ship could easily be an Epic scale ship; just look at the dimensions, taken directly from Arwingpedia:

 
Height
70 Space Meters
Width
100 Space Meters
Depth
150 Space Meters

 

 
Considering a stock YT-1300 is 34.52 meters long, this monster is twice as tall as the Falcon is long! And then compare it to a Gozanti's dimensions:
 

 

Length
63.8 meters
Width
32 meters
Height/depth
14.7 meters

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at - I just left the numbers in the generator alone.

 

The non-title version of it emphasizes the ordnance capacity, it's action bar and white full stop making it a missile boat of the highest order. Once it's out of ammunition, though - or if someone tries to approach it like a typical "bomber" - they'll quickly find out that it's a far more mobile craft than they might expect. While not capable of making particularly short and sharp turns, it is capable of quickly executing wide, sweeping maneuvers - turning a full 180 in quick order (as seen in almost every game, hence the SLAM action). This is a tank of a ship that wants to make wide maneuvers, and practically screams for multiple copies of Extra Munitions. The "intended" build in this form is to give it either Guidance Chips, Long-range scanners, or Munitions Failsafe and a Fire Control System, and then load up with concussion and/or cluster missiles for long-range firepower all day. I considered giving it a crew slot - but we have no information to indicate that there's any other crew than the single pilot.

 

And the first draft of it's title, which helps it in the "carrier" part of it's name:

 

FPb30Qc.png

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

Edited by Kepora

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Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 

Z25tRNg.jpg

kVMggYO.jpg

Nk5FZDH.png

 

 

Now this monster of a ship could easily be an Epic scale ship; just look at the dimensions, taken directly from Arwingpedia:

 
Height
70 Space Meters
Width
100 Space Meters
Depth
150 Space Meters

 

 
Considering a stock YT-1300 is 34.52 meters long, this monster is twice as tall as the Falcon is long! And then compare it to a Gozanti's dimensions:
 

 

Length
63.8 meters
Width
32 meters
Height/depth
14.7 meters

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at - I just left the numbers in the generator alone.

 

The non-title version of it emphasizes the ordnance capacity, it's action bar and white full stop making it a missile boat of the highest order. Once it's out of ammunition, though - or if someone tries to approach it like a typical "bomber" - they'll quickly find out that it's a far more mobile craft than they might expect. While not capable of making particularly short and sharp turns, it is capable of quickly executing wide, sweeping maneuvers - turning a full 180 in quick order (as seen in almost every game, hence the SLAM action). This is a tank of a ship that wants to make wide maneuvers, and practically screams for multiple copies of Extra Munitions. The "intended" build in this form is to give it either Guidance Chips, Long-range scanners, or Munitions Failsafe and a Fire Control System, and then load up with concussion and/or cluster missiles for long-range firepower all day. I considered giving it a crew slot - but we have no information to indicate that there's any other crew than the single pilot.

 

And the first draft of it's title, which helps it in the "carrier" part of it's name:

 

FPb30Qc.png

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

 

Wayyyyy too cheap. The resistance sympathizer is 9 points more expensive for 7 less health, one less defense die, and much fewer upgrade options. 

Edited by Mattman7306

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Wayyyyy too cheap. The resistance sympathizer is 9 points more expensive for 7 less health, one less defense die, and much fewer upgrade options. 

 

Re-read the post.

 

 

Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 

...

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at

 

...

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

 

 

As I stated three times, this is a rough draft. Instead of saying "it's too cheap", then say what you think it should cost. Just saying "It's too cheap" doesn't really help. As for the

upgrade slots, I honestly always found it silly that people should have to pay for slots - the cost of the slot is what you put into it, especially with how pricey Systems and munitions slots can be.

 

I was thinking of changing the base cost to 40 for the basic, and 42-44 for the PS5 version, but I don't know how that compares to others - and I want it to actually be able to carry ships with the "Hangar Pod" Title. Granted, the high cost of the IAC would force you to dock only a single higher-skill/tougher fighter, or low-PS pilots - but that's fitting with the theme. The cannon slot may go - either entirely or with a new missile slot. The idea was to make it HLC-capable, since the primary gun on this thing in-game is quite nasty.

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Alright, I see what you're saying. Just feels kinda off to have the two disjointed, y'know? And if Wolf isn't slicing into people at knife-fight range, then I'm excited to see where that goes!

 

I'm also tinkering with the additional characters in the series outside of the original four, the first one being a personal favorite who gt scrapped with Star Fox 2, Miyu Lynx! I took a note form the YT-1300's play book with special pilots having differnet stats, used here to reflect the unique nature of the modified Arwing that Miyu (and I believe Falco) used in two, the more fragile twin-hull vessel with a MASSIVE boost bar and higher firepower; a true interceptor variant (and my personal favorite to fly; high risk, high reward):

 

rmPhry7.jpg

59ByDCh.png

 

((I totally need to get your templates!))

 

The idea here is that the "interceptor" Awing that was specific to only two pilots in the series' history (granted, it was one appearance), in-game, had a total of 6 "health" rather than the traditional Arwing's 8, but it compensated for higher firepower and mobility. I originally wanted Miyu to be 7, but that's already claimed by Falco, and I'd say she's a better pilot than Peppy. Plus, I can't think of many PS6 ships off the top of my head! To reflect the ship's radical redesign, both the hull and shield have been reduced by one (may bump one of them back to 3), the agility has been locked in at 3, but the attack has been boosted to 3. I kept it an Arwing to keep it compatible with the other cards without needing extra text. Her pilot ability is supposed to reflect what I perceive as an aggressive nature, as well as the sheer maneuverability of the interceptor variant - allowing it to barrel roll using a straight 2, or boost ahead with a 2 bank to pounce on top of an enemy.

 

The initial build idea is to combine it with Overconfidence (the proposed 1 extra attack until hit EPT) and either Autothrusters to make it more survivable, or twin lasers to make it a little monster that the enemy HAS to pin down. Miyu always came off as an aggressive flyer, so this only seemed natural; if you think a points cost/tweak of stats/abilities is in order, then by all means  I'm new to this! I'm trying to figure out Fay and Krystal now  and I think Krystal, Peppy, and ROB deserve crew cards, don't you? :P

 

P.S.: If you wanna discuss ideas over Skype or something, let me know!

MAD props for remembering Miyu exists! Thank you!

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MAD props for remembering Miyu exists! Thank you!

 

 

Now if only Nintendo would remember! I want my brash, tomboy-ish Lynx girl back! (I mean I'm only assuming the brash and tomboy-ish parts, but her appearance in what little official art there was suggests it heavily IMO.)

 

As for the ability, what do you think - too strong? Or just right for the ship she's flying?

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Wayyyyy too cheap. The resistance sympathizer is 9 points more expensive for 7 less health, one less defense die, and much fewer upgrade options. 

 

Re-read the post.

 

 

Here we go, my first (VERY) rough draft for what's arguably the most iconic boss in the series, the Interplanetary Attack Carrier!

 

...

 

As you can see, the Attack Carrier is one beast of a ship! However, Epic-scale ships are something I have next to no experience with, and X-Wing is notorious for fudging classes/scales for the sake of play. Even with the scaling down we'd be doing, we're talking a large base ship that would likely overshadow the Ghost in spades. As for prices, I have NO idea what to cost this monster at

 

...

 

Again, a VERY rough draft - and I don't expect any of this to be accepted as-is. However, the idea is to get the gears turning to see what you guys come up with!

 

 

As I stated three times, this is a rough draft. Instead of saying "it's too cheap", then say what you think it should cost. Just saying "It's too cheap" doesn't really help. As for the

upgrade slots, I honestly always found it silly that people should have to pay for slots - the cost of the slot is what you put into it, especially with how pricey Systems and munitions slots can be.

 

I was thinking of changing the base cost to 40 for the basic, and 42-44 for the PS5 version, but I don't know how that compares to others - and I want it to actually be able to carry ships with the "Hangar Pod" Title. Granted, the high cost of the IAC would force you to dock only a single higher-skill/tougher fighter, or low-PS pilots - but that's fitting with the theme. The cannon slot may go - either entirely or with a new missile slot. The idea was to make it HLC-capable, since the primary gun on this thing in-game is quite nasty.

 

 

sorry i missed the pricing thing. 40 for the basic is still still too cheap. It out classes the patrol leader in almost everyway. my suggested price would be 55-60 points. Do actually agree with you on the pricing upgrade slots though. Why make me pay extra for slots I now can't fill because of the pricing?

 

Anyway this would probably be better off as an epic ship,  considering the shear size of it.

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i think the extra title for an evade after a barrelroll is too much. As it stands the ship is Defender level of solid: no real overpowering advantage but has better than average defense to shake the odds. Giving the Arwing a free evade would be overkill.

 

On paper i think the Arwings are all priced fine with fair stats. I havnt dug into some really crazy combos because...its a fan card! you arent suppose to look for really broken crap lol. Im trying to avoid anything that doesnt sound like it would belong in the Starfox Universe (Autos actually do make sense on the Arwings but like the OP said, taking autos means 2die attacks and thats an EXPENSIVE 2die ship.

 

Not going to lie i kinda wanna see if we could get the Great Fox in here for Epic (would probably be vastly more powerful than current Huge Ships to justify it being about 160pts loaded out for a nice 300pt game of the entire team + the Great Fox). However i think it might be a bit large rofl.

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sorry i missed the pricing thing. 40 for the basic is still still too cheap. It out classes the patrol leader in almost everyway. my suggested price would be 55-60 points. Do actually agree with you on the pricing upgrade slots though. Why make me pay extra for slots I now can't fill because of the pricing?

 

Anyway this would probably be better off as an epic ship,  considering the shear size of it.

 

Alright. Unfortunately, Epic is something I have NO clue how to handle, and given it's awkward shaping (wide than it is long), it would have to be some kind of Port/Starboard setup rather than Fore/aft. Though that WOULD make sense though, given the Starboard side are the missile pods, and the Port side is the actual carrier portion...

 

i think the extra title for an evade after a barrelroll is too much. As it stands the ship is Defender level of solid: no real overpowering advantage but has better than average defense to shake the odds. Giving the Arwing a free evade would be overkill.

 

On paper i think the Arwings are all priced fine with fair stats. I havnt dug into some really crazy combos because...its a fan card! you arent suppose to look for really broken crap lol. Im trying to avoid anything that doesnt sound like it would belong in the Starfox Universe (Autos actually do make sense on the Arwings but like the OP said, taking autos means 2die attacks and thats an EXPENSIVE 2die ship.

 

Not going to lie i kinda wanna see if we could get the Great Fox in here for Epic (would probably be vastly more powerful than current Huge Ships to justify it being about 160pts loaded out for a nice 300pt game of the entire team + the Great Fox). However i think it might be a bit large rofl.

 

Well, for the Great Fox, let's compare it to the Gozanti example.

 

Gozanti dimensions:

 

Length
63.8 meters
Width
32 meters
Height/depth
14.7 meters
 
 
And the Great Fox's:
 
Length
890 sm
Height
375 sm
 
So we're looking at a craft that's nearly a kilometer long and a third of a kilometer tall, compared to the Gozanti's 3/50th of a Kilometer length! Heck - let's compare it to another large, popular Star Wars ship, the Nebulon B:
 
Length
Width
72 meters[8]
Height/depth
166 meters[8]

 

...Wow the Great Fox is a LOT bigger than even I thought it was. Nearly 3 times the length of a Nebulon-B (At least it's Legends measurements; we have no "new" ones, at least on Wookieepedia.)! At that rate, you may as well just put it in Armada!

 

EDIT: It turns out a Victory-I Class Star Destroyer is 900 meters long. The great Fox is as big as a small Star Destroyer, holy crap!

Edited by Kepora

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Thats the other thing, Great Fox tends to change its size both depending on which Great Fox youre talking about and the game. We know its large enough to house the 4 Arwings at minimum and have a fairly large command deck, but almost every time we see it fly next to us it feels way smaller than it is lol.

Hence why i was figuring it was too large before bothering to dig into it. And apparently i was right if your numbers are correct lol (dang its THAT much bigger?)

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Thats the other thing, Great Fox tends to change its size both depending on which Great Fox youre talking about and the game. We know its large enough to house the 4 Arwings at minimum and have a fairly large command deck, but almost every time we see it fly next to us it feels way smaller than it is lol.

Hence why i was figuring it was too large before bothering to dig into it. And apparently i was right if your numbers are correct lol (dang its THAT much bigger?)

 

Apparently it is! I also learned that in Smash Bros. melee and Brawl, if you go into Mini mode on the stages where you fight on Great Fox, you're actually appropriately scaled to it. So...yeah. it's one beast of a ship!

 

EDIT: I need to stop saying "the" Great Fox and just say "Great Fox". That's the ship's name, and it's unique, so...yeah.

Edited by Kepora

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Well, Great Fox is just the title Fox gave the command ship. Theres been multiple Great Foxes, sometimes its not even remotely the same ship (Command....) but has the same name.

 

Fair point. And I hate to seem like I'm fishing for comments, but what are your thoughts on my proposition for a Miyu pilot, with the altered stats to represent her unique variant - similar to how higher PS versions of the YT-1300 have different stats to represent modifications made by the owner(s) of the Millennium Falcon? And does her ability sound too OP, or about right to balance out the lower health of her ship?

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This has been the best post on this forum in a long time. Very well thought out and it looks fun! Great work!

Edit: how did I miss this post when it originally was posted!!?? Regardless, shouldn't we have seen a star wolf post by now? :)

 

You flatter me, thank you :) Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars features heavily in my childhood so there's a lot of emotional investment in such a project that made the hard work easier! As for Star Wolf, I'm currently working on it (I found my notes! Huzzah!), but I think I want to save it for when it's done and then do another big post for it, going into all the details.

 

 

Alright, I see what you're saying. Just feels kinda off to have the two disjointed, y'know? And if Wolf isn't slicing into people at knife-fight range, then I'm excited to see where that goes!

 

Indeed, and it has irked at me a little but in the end I think the mechanical simplicity has to win out. Wolf's ability I think is nicely thematic - his is currently the only one I have the wording completely tied up for, as well.

 

 

I'm also tinkering with the additional characters in the series outside of the original four, the first one being a personal favorite who gt scrapped with Star Fox 2, Miyu Lynx! I took a note form the YT-1300's play book with special pilots having differnet stats, used here to reflect the unique nature of the modified Arwing that Miyu (and I believe Falco) used in two, the more fragile twin-hull vessel with a MASSIVE boost bar and higher firepower; a true interceptor variant (and my personal favorite to fly; high risk, high reward):
 
Losing Star Fox 2 really was a shame, doubly so since there was no good reason for it - but a lot of what Star Fox 2 would have been did at least make it into 64.

I think Miyu would be a great pilot to add (PS6 seems about right), and I love her ability - but I'll confess to not liking the stat modifications. Although there were variant Arwings in SF2 and variant ships for particular pilots in Star Fox Command, I think it's beyond the scope of the Arwing expansion to reflect the differences those ships had in full - the pilot ability is really where that should be explored, in order to keep consistency. In Miyu's case, I think the one you have for her represents an 'interceptor-variant' Arwing quite well.

 

 

Overconfidence (the proposed 1 extra attack until hit EPT)

That card (in the Wolfen expansion) is the only one I have finished from that set so far, but it is perfect :)

 

 

I'm trying to figure out Fay and Krystal now  and I think Krystal, Peppy, and ROB deserve crew cards, don't you? :P

Was Fay another pilot from SF2? I'll confess to not recognising the name. Krystal I was reluctant to add to my original expansion because a) I'm not her biggest fan, and b) She doesn't appear in the game I was most trying to represent. That said, if I were to create a card for her, I believe her pilot skill would be quite low (4 or 5), but she would have a powerful ability relating to seeing enemy dials, judging by the vaguely psychic powers she seems to demonstrate in the games.

And yes, crew cards for those characters is something I've been thinking about...

 

As a side note, would it be alright if we kept 'main' postings (new ships, cards etc) to our respective threads? While I'm always happy to discuss the ideas in either, in the interests of project coherency it might be a little clearer :)

 

 

On paper i think the Arwings are all priced fine with fair stats. I havnt dug into some really crazy combos because...its a fan card! you arent suppose to look for really broken crap lol. Im trying to avoid anything that doesnt sound like it would belong in the Starfox Universe (Autos actually do make sense on the Arwings but like the OP said, taking autos means 2die attacks and thats an EXPENSIVE 2die ship.
 
Amazingly, I have not yet been able to actually test the Arwing at all myself - this is something I am hoping to change. And they are fan cards, but if any break the game in half I'll consider changing them :P

Autothrusters were something I knew I had to steer players away from on the Arwing, to give it more of its own niche.

 

 

Not going to lie i kinda wanna see if we could get the Great Fox in here for Epic (would probably be vastly more powerful than current Huge Ships to justify it being about 160pts loaded out for a nice 300pt game of the entire team + the Great Fox). However i think it might be a bit large rofl.

 

I had been thinking about the Great Fox as a Large ship, given the precedent set by the Ghost (large home-base-type mothership), but given it can house four ships (rather than just one) in a proper hangar suggests Epic size, and I think that's what I'd have to go for - we do, after all, see the SF64-era Great Fox ploughing through rocks at the beginning of the Meteo level.

 

Thats the other thing, Great Fox tends to change its size both depending on which Great Fox youre talking about and the game. We know its large enough to house the 4 Arwings at minimum and have a fairly large command deck, but almost every time we see it fly next to us it feels way smaller than it is lol.

Hence why i was figuring it was too large before bothering to dig into it. And apparently i was right if your numbers are correct lol (dang its THAT much bigger?)

 

That's the main problem I found when I did my initial research - but I think an Epic scale ship will handle all of its forms adequately. An Epic ship is also the perfect opportunity to add Crew cards and alternate pilots for existing ships...hmmm....

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Her pricing seems fine to me, bit more glass-cannon which makes sense considering most of the time we saw her she wrecked something hard. And her ship does NOT look durable so the stats seem right.

Her ability actually is pretty tame. Off the top of my head i dont think 2fwd/2bank boosts is all that broken but it definitely has uses (zip from range3 to range1). 2straight barrelrolls almost never help. There is a TIE/FO with that ability and ive fielded him multiple times and i dont think ive ever used the 2speed barrelroll. 

 

Now if it let her use a bank barrelroll..oh lordy that'd be sexy! And probably to powerful to still allow the 2speed templates.

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As a side note regarding the Great Fox's size, I should point out that, while I was sourcing the Arwing model and thus trying to ensure the dimensions were 'canonically' right, I discovered that the given canon lengths for the various parts of the SF64 Arwing (insofar as I could find, anyway) did not match up in ratio when compared with the 3D-printed model, which is spot on. So it's entirely possible that the 890m length of the Great Fox is not entirely accurate...

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Oof, right. Sorry about that, got a little ahead of myself! My offer to discuss stuff on a better medium still stands, though. And yeah, seems you and I were on the same page in terms of dial shenanigans in regards to Krystal, both pilot and crew versions. I do agree her PS would be on the lower end - 4 or 5; she's obviously been trained how to fly, but I'd put her at the same as Peppy, both being his replacement in the squad and her lack of experience would be her disadvantage vs. Peppy's older age.

 

I may end up making Miyu/Fay as pilots in unique craft, but maybe you're right in keeping them to "standard" Arwings for now. Miyu still comes off as very "predatory" to me, though, so I like her movement shenanigans. Fay seems a bit more...I dunno, level-headed and tactical? We have so little to work with, but it's amazing what one's mind can get just from character sprites! In regards to Pilot Skill, probably a 4 for her - better than Slippy, but still a lot to learn.

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Better than slippy isnt saying much lol...

 

Well he IS good enoguh to fly with the team, so...there's that!

 

Anyways, in order to stop from spamming Malus' thread, I've taken discussion of things like the proposed Arwing Interceptor and such back to my thread! Let's try not to spam either thread too much - but I do think some healthy cross-communication's a good idea, too!

 

Also, Malus - you have full permission to take.modify/improve upon any of my ideas suggestions, just FYI! I'm a huge Star Fox fan, and you seem to be doing a better job at doing it justice than me! :P

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