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eljolly

RtL - Custom campaigns and side quests?

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Hello.

I'm sure Most of you have already played and finished RtL first campaign "Rise goblins". If not, then I might have a serious problem and too much free time in my hands.

 

 

You have too much time on your hands :)  The side quest alone took me 2 hours+. With only 2 evenings after work so far passing since it was released, I've had time to play the tutorial and the first side quest.

I expect it will take me some time to complete the entire thing!

Edited by palleon

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The Road to Legend announcement article stated in the first sentence after the "Increasing Your Power" heading that "Road to Legend isn’t limited to guiding you through individual quests during a game of Descent—it offers the entire campaign experience." 

 

I inferred from this sentence that RtL would have both stand alone quests, possibly with randomized room generation, and a free, full campaign with the option to purchase additional campaigns.  This made sense to me as then the app would offer usefulness and replayability even after the campaigns have been exhausted.

 

Hopefully that will be added later, but as it is currently the only way to access the RtL functionality, which I really enjoyed using, is to continually play the same campaign maps over and over again.  This unnecessarily and significantly restricts the app's usefulness and versatility, and potentially its longevity as well. 

 

By that I mean, I can see someone regularly using standalone quests for short gaming sessions with a variety of play groups, even using it as a gateway to introduce new players to the game in a simplified cooperative setting.  Features, such as this, that induce players to access RtL more often would enable FFG to more effectively use it as a community building and advertising tool as well.  At the very least, it seems to me that someone who repeatedly uses and enjoys RtL would be more likely to be aware of, and purchase, new campaigns as they become available than someone who plays a free campaign a couple of times and then puts it out of his mind.

 

Anyway, that's an area where I see RtL having significant opportunity to improve.  I hope FFG takes it in that direction.

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I have to disagree with you on the price. Imo 10$ is extremely fair, considering that this campaign is much longer than the free demo and the free demo is as long as a PoD Coop, which by itself costs 15$ in USA, whereas I couldn't get it for less than 18€... that's nearly half the price for easily 3-4 times the content and gameplay or all PoD Coops for the price of one half PoD Coop.

 

 

Well, I am not saying it isn't a fair price...but people WILL complain that it is expensive for "digital content".  Remember, the mobile app revolution has tricked many people into thinking that apps should be free or at most $5.

 

 

Well technically the app is free and even comes with free content. Only the "dlc" costs money and people are willing to spend a lot on these things without much grief, so I think FFG pulled this off really cleverly.

 

For digital content that lacks of Replay value 10 Bucks is too much for me. My only hope is that the only thing feeding this App IS NOT only FFG's content but also content from the community.

that's all I want for christmars.

 

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For me so far the app meets exceeds my expectations so far. I think it's neat that the first one is free and that it actively tracks my collection. Clearly since it knows what I own and don't own there is some record that can be used by the campaigns you purchase.

 

To be fair I have not loved the campaign that's included so far, but it's free so how much can I complain about it. When I start to buy campaigns my expectations will be:

 

  • The campaign can scale, it can make adjustments and get harder as our characters get better.
  • I can explore the Runebound world with a set of characters and not basically restart characters with every campaign.
  • The campaigns will have enough variance to be replayable (more so than campaigns for the board version).
  • The same level of time investment that a box campaign offers (10-20 hours to see it through).

Anything above this is gravy for me.

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For digital content that lacks of Replay value 10 Bucks is too much for me. My only hope is that the only thing feeding this App IS NOT only FFG's content but also content from the community.

that's all I want for christmars.

 

 

 

The replay-ability of the campaigns will come from the random side quests which will not always be the same for each play though.  And the more physical content you own, the larger the side quest "pool" will be and thus the less chance that you will encounter the same side quests during subsequent campaign runs.  Also, the story quests could differ depending on the results of the previous story quest.  Think of this as how Imperial Assault's campaigns work:  branching, yet fixed story missions with random side missions.  No two campaigns are exactly the same.  So will it be with the full Road to Legend campaigns.  

 

I will conceded that if your physical content collection is small, then yes, that will diminish replay-ability as it will be a smaller side quest pool.  This is a situation where the more you have invested in physical content, the more value you will get form the IAP campaigns (which makes sense). Basic gamer ROI really  :D

 

And don't take my word for it.  This is what FFG said about the first full length campaign:

 

An entirely new full-length campaign, Kindred Fire, will soon be released for Road to Legend. Featuring eight new story quests and additional side quests based on the expansions you own, Kindred Fire calls upon you and your fellow heroes to stand against the depredations of the dastardly Merrick Farrow. 

 

Edited by Otakuon

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If replayability and side quests are going to be based on which expansions you own, then it makes sense--if you don't own any or many of them--to wait until the digital campaign is up for sale and see what expansions it demands in order to be completed.  Personally,  I don't think the app should demand any additional physical content to do the campaign, but fleshing out the randomized side quests is another matter.

 

We love this app in our family as Descent has languished on our game shelf for years now since no one--and I mean no one--ever wanted to play the OL.  So this app gave us a chance to get the box down and enjoy a game of Descent.  However, I'd hate to be forced into having to buy physical expansions just to be able to finish a campaign on the app.  Yet we will buy some in order to enrich the experience--there are two or three we've had our eye on as a family.  Paradox:  we're willing to buy expansions but don't want to be told which expansions we have to have!  Rebels, the whole lot of us! ;)

 

Speaking of rebels, we do enjoy Imperial Assault, since one player, usually me, doesn't mind being the Empire. But I'd much prefer if we could all be rebels against the empire, so maybe FFG will come up with a similar app for Imperial Assault that takes over the role of the Empire.  That would be sweet.

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For digital content that lacks of Replay value 10 Bucks is too much for me. My only hope is that the only thing feeding this App IS NOT only FFG's content but also content from the community.

that's all I want for christmars.

 

 

 

The replay-ability of the campaigns will come from the random side quests which will not always be the same for each play though.  And the more physical content you own, the larger the side quest "pool" will be and thus the less chance that you will encounter the same side quests during subsequent campaign runs.  Also, the story quests could differ depending on the results of the previous story quest.  Think of this as how Imperial Assault's campaigns work:  branching, yet fixed story missions with random side missions.  No two campaigns are exactly the same.  So will it be with the full Road to Legend campaigns.  

 

I will conceded that if your physical content collection is small, then yes, that will diminish replay-ability as it will be a smaller side quest pool.  This is a situation where the more you have invested in physical content, the more value you will get form the IAP campaigns (which makes sense). Basic gamer ROI really  :D

 

And don't take my word for it.  This is what FFG said about the first full length campaign:

 

An entirely new full-length campaign, Kindred Fire, will soon be released for Road to Legend. Featuring eight new story quests and additional side quests based on the expansions you own, Kindred Fire calls upon you and your fellow heroes to stand against the depredations of the dastardly Merrick Farrow. 

 

 

I hope so. My descent collection is actually pretty big, and with that i mean i have only 2 M&H collection + Mist of bilehall missing in my collection.

I hope The next Campaign offers replayability. Rise Goblins, didnt. There are two FIXED side quests ( Maybe RtL has been updated so I might be wrong ). So Replay value on Rise Goblins, is 0. I hope Kindred Fire actually takes into consideration your collection.

Anyway, I can't stress this enough: I don't want the content on RtL to be feeded only by FFG but also by the community.

Lets see what happens. It will be interesting nonetheless.

 

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To be honest, I´m a disappointed by the lack of content.

 

All quests are always exactly the same in each playthrough, only the spawned monsters and the travel events (which are quite cool) vary.

 

But the room tiles are in exactly the same place, and the layout is static. If played the quests once, you know everything about this campaign and there are no real surprises.

 

The quests itself are (all of them put together) about as long as a coop pod, which isn´t that great either. No randomization of tiles and events is truely sad.

 

I really hope the kindred fire campaign is coming soon, and is a lot bigger than this.

 

Sadly, due to the lack of replayability I´m quite disappointed by the app. I really didn´t see this coming, I guess my hopes were too high.

think about it, they want the free content to be minimal so you will want to buy the full content via the campaign's they are going to charge for later on. I hope they find a way to maybe pull from a random pool of layouts for each adventure to keep it fresh. Its probably hard to program good procedural maps tho.

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To be honest, I´m a disappointed by the lack of content.

 

All quests are always exactly the same in each playthrough, only the spawned monsters and the travel events (which are quite cool) vary.

 

But the room tiles are in exactly the same place, and the layout is static. If played the quests once, you know everything about this campaign and there are no real surprises.

 

The quests itself are (all of them put together) about as long as a coop pod, which isn´t that great either. No randomization of tiles and events is truely sad.

 

I really hope the kindred fire campaign is coming soon, and is a lot bigger than this.

 

Sadly, due to the lack of replayability I´m quite disappointed by the app. I really didn´t see this coming, I guess my hopes were too high.

think about it, they want the free content to be minimal so you will want to buy the full content via the campaign's they are going to charge for later on. I hope they find a way to maybe pull from a random pool of layouts for each adventure to keep it fresh. Its probably hard to program good procedural maps tho.

 

 

They want to charge for their best content (i.e. full campaigns).  However, the app needs some free features with replay value in order to stay relevant.  It's been out for less than a week and already a significant number of fans (if the reactions from these message boards are representative of the general Descent fan base) have already seen everything it has to offer, said "yeah, that was fun, I guess" and moved on to other things.  That's not the reaction you want from a tool with as much potential as RtL has.  If RtL had been released with some form of stand alone quests (see my above post) I believe the release enthusiasm would have taken considerably longer to simmer down.

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They saw all of us crying and moping (myself included) about how we wanted the app so bad so they released it now with the free mini-campaign. FREE, it's a taste, a tutorial. If they were to release a random dungeon generator, why would people buy any of the campaigns? No one complained when the OL vs 4 Heroes base game came out with no way to randomly generate maps. I wouldn't complain if FFG came out with some way to randomly generate the map tiles used in a quest as long as the quest, it's objective and narrative stayed intact. I like playing through the story.

 

A random dungeon generator would be interesting no doubt, but that seems like something they could sell as it's own campaign down the line. If im paying for content I don't want to just go from some random room to some other random room with nothing being cohesive. You could set up pay like that by just making a bunch of tables, assign monster groups and map tiles a number and just roll dice.

 

The PoD co-ops would randomize room order, you always knew what your objective was and which monsters would spawn. This app uses all the monsters in my collection! That always irked me about the PoDs, only 4 pre-determined groups.

 

If they randomized room order again, I'm sure many people would be pleased, but just how random would a random generated map be?

 

A pool of objectives + a pool of monsters + a pool of map tiles.

Eventually you will have seen it all, ad you could create tables and roll a dice and make such a generator yourself for free.

 

I'm glad that within the limited scope of the free mini-campaign we got essentially 3 quest with their own narratives that connected together as a larger short story (pillaging an old flooded ruin full of treasure now occupied by a nest of Merriods, rescuing a missing priest from a vengeful former disciple and investigating Splig's dubious claims about the extermination of his race).

 

I am looking forward to tracking down Merrick Farrow and stopping him from burning down civilization and possibly finding out why Sir Alric is missing

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I don't want random dungeons.

 

What I wanted was a companion app that automates the OL and keeps track of the hero stuff for the campaigns I already own.

The campaigns that came in those big expensive boxes that I own, and have never got to play, because NO ONE wants to be the OL!!

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Many of you complain that the quest maps are not randomly generated. I on the other hand LOVE this fact. With randomly generated maps the difficulty of creating cohesive good stories within a single mission becomes next to impossible. I have still not seen anyone create really great stories when generating random maps. In this way, each single encounter can be relevant for the story and each monster have a part to play. With random generated rooms that would be very unlikely.

I personally love the design of the app and everything about it. Except that im scared that i have to wait several months for the big campaign to come out.

 

The only complaint i have is that the tutorial campaign (if you skip the tutorial) isnt balanced to have your characters without experience in the start. I have players that will be introduced to descent with this app and the added confusion of having to pick new abilities before even playing the first scenario is a bit annoying. (Hope we start as weak characters in Kindred Fire whenever that comes out.)

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I don't want a fully random campaign either. But it would already be cool if the app switched out even just one tile of a quest now and then, with one from an expansion. It could have the same 'gameplay' (objective tokens, search tokens) just positioned slightly different to match the layout of the tile. It would at least add a bit of variation. (The possible appearance of a new terrain type alone would make it interesting enough)

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I don't want a fully random campaign either. But it would already be cool if the app switched out even just one tile of a quest now and then, with one from an expansion. It could have the same 'gameplay' (objective tokens, search tokens) just positioned slightly different to match the layout of the tile. It would at least add a bit of variation. (The possible appearance of a new terrain type alone would make it interesting enough)

 

I agree that if they threw in a random tiles or maybe an extra room for those that own an expansion here in there it could be a neat little addition. It could be a good way to bring back the secret room dynamic. I just don't think programming a quest with a different layout each time is as easy as everyone thinks it is. If you're objective in a particular room is to get between monsters blocking your way to an objective token for example, the size of the room, the composition of the tile and the amount of spaces between said objective and the doorway make a huge difference. The very same objective may be hilariously easy in one room and brutally difficult in another.

 

I'm not against the idea of them coming out with a random dungeon generator for those that like pure grinding (I'd still buy it) but I'm rather happy that they've gone the narrative driven quest rout. I liked chasing down Bove Wolfe and making him pay for his transgressions. Brother Gherinn would say, "Kellos be praised!"

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I agree with Luijod. We will not see dungeons with random generator anytime soon, analyzing the product and gameplay standpoint. They can bring bring diversity for the app by other methods:

 

- new perils

- surprises events or effects: this can add a ton of replay value in a quest, you can have the same dungeon with the same goals, but not the same journey.

- new monsters and lieutenants activations .

- quests with multiple layouts, paths and objectives

- more side quests: I think that is the most important item. With a large pool of side quests, every campaign will have tons of replay.

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well that blue bar of completion got me.. 1st H&M monster pack on its way.. and another Lt..

 

Don't feel bad.  I've purchased two more H&M's and completed my collection of lieutenants since this app came out.  We had better see Kindred Fire pretty soon...

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When people talks about random generating dungeons, i think what they want is a grind experience with a lot of replay value. You can have the same thing with a well wrtitten story in top of it, with the metod RtL is offering.

The only "problem" with the design of RtL (Imo), may be the fact that so little content would be added, Lets hope that won't be the case. I have a group that likes descent so much we would play it every weekend.
 

TO FFG: Let me craft my own campaign on RtL, damnit!!!!

PS: that collector-bar of evil... IS EVIL.

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If only they'd tie it to Quest Vault and adopt RedJaks Automated Overlord system in it :-(

Agreed. Or atleast add the quests/campains from the content you have already payed for.

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If only they'd tie it to Quest Vault and adopt RedJaks Automated Overlord system in it :-(

 

Would people be interested in a web app that would be a mix of Redjak Automated Overload with RtL-style automated monsters, and maybe Perils?

All of this with random generated dungeons like Warhammer Quest where you need to reach a specific room and slain the boss (Descent Lieutenant) ?

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If only they'd tie it to Quest Vault and adopt RedJaks Automated Overlord system in it :-(

 

Would people be interested in a web app that would be a mix of Redjak Automated Overload with RtL-style automated monsters, and maybe Perils?

All of this with random generated dungeons like Warhammer Quest where you need to reach a specific room and slain the boss (Descent Lieutenant) ?

 

I really don't understand why people like random generated dungeon. I do understand the surprise factor on the shape of your dungeon, but you get the same feeling on a RtL quest ( if you have never played it).

I like a cohesive story trhough each tile of the dungeon I'm esploring. Until i get to the boss of the dungeon, but slain him may not be the solution to defeat the dungeon... it may be something else..!!  I like the story driven dungeon better.

Can someone who like the idea of the random generated dungeon tell me why a Random generated dungeon is overall a better idea? I might be missing something..!

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I think you add you own personal story a dungeon but some times you need a random dungeon,  story's tend to be very little if you really brake them down

 

Find Kill X  ( splig quest) (James bond) 

Find X      ( the armory quest)  (Indiana jones and the temple fo doom) 

Find X and Take to B  (priest quest)  (put X on tiled 3-6) (put B on tiles 7 to 9) ( star trek into darkeness)

Escort X to B  (as above but start with X  might need to be protected) ( Pitch Black) 

Push button X 3 times before Y can  (tutorial quest  kinda  investigate staff and leave (guardians of the galaxy, harry potters)

 

a story can evolve around random elements like roarys story cubes.

 

Hero + known bad guy endding  whats the middle like? when you draw a  a random monster or tiles you weave it into the story, has the bad guy allied with this new monster for protect or hire them as assasins to get you,  did you know there was a dungeon or lava cave under that shack.. no wonder its important ,  it though this was just a wolves den but where are these undead coming from!

 

a random does not have to be totally random chaos you can assign meaning to it. ..or add a control button  it would be nice to have a Cycle that button, on tiles or monsters if you think they dont fit.

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Hero + known bad guy endding  whats the middle like? when you draw a  a random monster or tiles you weave it into the story, has the bad guy allied with this new monster for protect or hire them as assasins to get you,  did you know there was a dungeon or lava cave under that shack.. no wonder its important ,  it though this was just a wolves den but where are these undead coming from!

 

a random does not have to be totally random chaos you can assign meaning to it. ..or add a control button  it would be nice to have a Cycle that button, on tiles or monsters if you think they dont fit.

 

Can't you have the same experience with a prebuild dungeon? If its the first time you play it, you surely don't know what's behind the door, or what you are going to face, but without losing the cohesive aspect of the story.

I just feel a random generated dungeon may be more like: "Hey we are here to face this generic monster at the end of this generic dungeon!", Instead i personally feel a prebuild dungeon with prebuild surprises feel more like "Hey we are here to face this mad scientist in this abbandoned fortress that he turned into his laboratory".  Again, the buu factor on this is the fact that you just can't replay it feeling the same.

and maybe thats the awesome of a Random generated dungeon, the fact that you can play "The same game", but it WILL be a different experience every time.

Am I wrong?

 

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ok mad scientist lab is the Perfectly the priest quest..

 

I have had random monster change from the app in the guardian and what every explodes out of the Lab, once goblins once fire imps.

even the peril seems to change sure one play though it was manticore breath this one seem fixed on rising zombies,

 

but with random tiles..im not crossing that same moat room each time, the lab might be smaller or larger,  the alter room might be closer or further way. 

 

(plot is hero find kill an evil wizard)

 

even if you re-order the rooms it tells the different story , Alter, Spider cave moat, lab,generic corridor,

 

following the strangers map you find whats looks to an abandoned alter but tracks lead to a shadow passage way , sound of lapping water came from the next room cross from witch you can see firelight and a shadows 

 

 

Spider cave, Lab, Alter room,corrider  moat

locals asked you clear our a spider infestation but not is all as it appears tracks lead to a bizarre lab protected from the spider by wards, dispatching the wizard you find a key to a trap door which drops in to pit that is a old sunken temple. where ghost appeals to you for aid,  just as the water are disturbed! 

 

Im mixing up the merroid room with the priest quest already

 

Technically the spider cave for the app might be presenting a challenge  a long room to cross with possible immobilizing effects

 

 

I do come from a D&DAS games background.. there tiles are very poor in comparison, just a few significant art tiles , but even just a few random procedural lay outs can change how you think of dungeon some dungeons where all doors and small cell rooms, a Barracks!,, other there twisting open caves , some doors with no significant rooms so ruins, where monster trained pets, random burrowing  things, attracted by dead flesh from battle etc.. you had to test your imagination,   to keep it from being survive 9 tiles and kill a boss ... pretty much the same in Runebound too 

 

 

 

Scripted quest are great and defiantly should be the focus ,,  but the waiting time between the polished stuff i really want a sandbox too! 

Edited by milarky

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