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Jediluigi

Fixing the Scyk

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Maybe instead of worrying about what the Scyk can't do we need to think about what it can do that no other ships can, such as being the cheapest cannon carrier by far. Also the cheapest torpedo carrier in scum, and the second cheapest missile carrier, and the only one with 3 agility.

Another list I was wondering about:

Cartel spacer with title, Prockets, chimps X 5, leaving 5 points for...I dunno, something. That's 25 red dice with at least 10 guaranteed hits.

I dunno, I'm not really feeling the spam lists. Maybe Scyks work best as a one off ship like the Ion Scyk or TB, adding alittle control to the list without breaking the bank.

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I think a good Scyk fix would be something like:

(Missile slot) -2 points

Increase your hull value by 1.

Your upgrade bar gains the (Cannon), (Torpedo), and (Missile) icons.

It's a bit of a kluge, but it does put the Scyk where it needs to be in order to hit basic jousting value.

As far as goodies go:

(Cannon) (2 points)

At the beginning of the combat phase, you may take a Target Lock action.

Now you can take a 22 point Cartel Spacer with Guidance Chimps, Concussion Missiles, Extra Munitions, and get a Target Lock + focus to fire them. Plus have 3 Hull, for that tiny bit of extra survivability. That's not bad.

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Maybe instead of worrying about what the Scyk can't do we need to think about what it can do that no other ships can, such as being the cheapest cannon carrier by far. Also the cheapest torpedo carrier in scum, and the second cheapest missile carrier, and the only one with 3 agility.

Another list I was wondering about:

Cartel spacer with title, Prockets, chimps X 5, leaving 5 points for...I dunno, something. That's 25 red dice with at least 10 guaranteed hits.

I dunno, I'm not really feeling the spam lists. Maybe Scyks work best as a one off ship like the Ion Scyk or TB, adding alittle control to the list without breaking the bank.

 

Prockets need high PS to ensure R1. Serissu can pull it off on with PTL and Chips or a Mindlinked squad with Engine Upgrade (I've actually done it).

But yeah...better as a one-of.

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I dunno, I'm not really feeling the spam lists. Maybe Scyks work best as a one off ship like the Ion Scyk or TB, adding alittle control to the list without breaking the bank.

 

This!   It's not best as a swarm ship.  It's great as one or two in a list.  Well, the Mindlink swarm has options, but I think one or two of these in a list for control is a good thing.   

 

Cartel Marauder (20)
Feedback Array (2)
 
Cartel Marauder (20)
Feedback Array (2)
 
Cartel Marauder (20)
 
Cartel Spacer (14)
Ion Cannon (3)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)
 
Cartel Spacer (14)
Tractor Beam (1)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)
 
Total: 100
 
 
Mindlink really does add options, though.  I've flown Tie Fighters with Fleet Officer for the free Focus and when you have 3 green dice, an Evade, and a Focus each round, it's a lot harder to kill than you would think.  
 
If it were 1 pt cheaper, it would even compete with vanilla Z-95.  The Scyk has a better dial and Barrel Roll for annoying fighter/blocker. 

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Illicit Advanced Targeting Computer (Modification 0pt)

(Scyk only)

"After executing a green maneuver, you may acquire a target lock."

Basically giving the scyk a free K-4 security droid (value 3 pt) would fix the scyk, while reinforcing the glass cannon aspect of the ship by buffing offence.

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Recently flew a four ship scum list with two Mindlinked Tansarii Veterans, Guri and Manaroo. It was a cobbled together list with me trying to cram all my scum ships in, I flew it really badly. However the mindlinked Sycks did surprisingly well, generally I was able to keep one out combat to feed focus to the other which would either evade or reposition.

 

 

The ship is fragile, that 2 hull 1 shield is rarely any better than 3 hull so stacking more points on it with title plus cannon makes it an easy target for points. The action economy from Attanni Mindlink helped mitigate the fragility of the ship and I'm looking to try that with the title and cannon.

However, that doesn't really help the EPT less pilots.

 

The problem with fixing the ship the FFG way (more upgrade cards) is that there isn't much room to work with on the ship. It only has support for title and modification. Using Missile or Torpedo upgrades will pretty much mandate the "Heavy Scyk" which doesn't help if you want to keep the points cost down.

Ultimately, I think any fix for the ship is going to have to double dip on whatever upgrade slot the fix uses. Personally I think the title is the way to go. One title to directly compete with the existing title and a couple of titles that require the "Heavy Scyk" title, eg:

Super Heavy Scyk - 0pts

Title, M3-A interceptor Only

Your lasers now fire in all the colours of the rainbow.

You must equip the "Heavy Scyk" title in addition to this title.

 

For the standard Scyk I think a bonus evade token, something like:

M3-A "Light" Interceptor - 0pts

Title. M3-A Interceptor only.

At the start of the combat phase, if an enemy ship at range 1 - 3 is inside your firing arc, you may assign a free evade token to your ship.

 

I unfortunately don't have any good ideas for titles that would pair with the "Heavy Scyk" title, I think one which buffs ordnance carries (preferably both before and after ordnance is fired) and one that slightly buffs cannon carriers. The idea being that when you build the Scyk you pick the title that suits the role you have in mind. That and the existing title is still used as it is paired with a couple of the new titles.

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The problem with the design of the M3 is that FFG seemed to try to combine the design space of a intercepter type fighter and a Tie. Like most compromises, they got neither. It is too expensive to act as a cheap tie or Z95. It has neither the dial or action economy to be a true intercepter, and none of the pilots have the unique abilities of the named ties.

Mindlink fixes the action economy, which pulls.it from the cheap tie model. The dial is still meh.

FFG filled the title slot too early and that will make it harder to fix. Not impossible, but harder.

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I'm still confused how an 'interceptor' can lack a speed 5 straight, and lacking that it should at least had boost, or green turns. Something! At least it can bring the firepower, but at a price. And much better pilots, where are the awesome pilots? This thing should have had at least 4 uniques, with at least half of them synergizing with swarms, the other half having to do with secondary weapons. At least they gave us an EPT generic right off the bat, even if it was, again, a little too expensive.

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I'm still confused how an 'interceptor' can lack a speed 5 straight, and lacking that it should at least had boost, or green turns. Something! At least it can bring the firepower, but at a price. And much better pilots, where are the awesome pilots? This thing should have had at least 4 uniques, with at least half of them synergizing with swarms, the other half having to do with secondary weapons. At least they gave us an EPT generic right off the bat, even if it was, again, a little too expensive.

It's there to "intercept" HWKs xD

Turretless HWKs

 

 

(don't forget the S&V trademark of 3-hard problem)

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I really like the Scyk - something about the little manta-ray aesthetic appeals to me... so it's a shame to learn it struggles to justify its place.

I'm very new to this game - having only played three-and-a-half games (one was abandoned after trying to squeeze it into a too short time window) - but that hasn't stopped me from quickly stocking up on many of the ships I like (and a couple I'm less keen on, though softening to).

Anyway, with my limited grasp on the mechanics thus far, I have still endeavored to make some suggestions to improve this like pocket-rocket whilst pursuing a theme I think fits with its appearance and stated role.

The style to the ship instantly put me in mind of a swarm insect (bees), or small pack-hunter predator (jackals), that overwhelm larger prey (or threats) with a "death-of-a-thousand cuts", attritional style of attack. Inspired by other discussions around buzz-droids and clone era drone fighters, I thought it would be good to have game mechanic that represented multiple slashing passes weaking a target. I also felt that the dial and actions didn't fully reflect the agility it promised by its sleek profile (and background fluff).

So, in keeping with the Tatooine fauna naming convention, I devised a unique attack style for the ship...

“Sketto Squadron” (or “Zicx Squadron”?)

Title (0 Pts)

M3-A only

Action: Assign a Sync-Lock token to an enemy ship in your firing arc and within R1-2. Then assign 1 Weapons Disabled and 1 Evade token to your ship.

A ship with this title may spend friendly Sync-Lock tokens.

(would require tokens with a different colour on each side, in case of a Scum v Scum game)

---

Reference

Sync-Lock

When performing a primary weapon attack, a ship that can spend friendly Sync-Lock tokens may spend up to 3 friendly Sync-Lock tokens assigned to the target.

Tokens may be spent either:

- before rolling attack dice, to roll 1 additional dice per token spent; or

- during the Modify Attack Dice phase and for each token spent you may turn 1 [eye] to a [hit].

Tokens can be spent both ways, but no more than 3 in total can be spent during a single attack.

Spent Sync-Lock tokens are removed from the target ship immediately. All unused Sync-Lock token are removed during the End Phase.

{P.S. - I'm not happy with "Sync-lock" as the name of the rule, but "Swarm" already had a connotation. Alternatives could be 'Hunt', 'Prey' or 'Converge'... but struggling to find the right label}

---

I had in mind that each ship could contribute to a cumulative attack on a single target, ultimately translating to a more powerful hit - the trade off being the sacrifice of a 2-dice attack in order to augment another ships' strike. In this way, the squadron has the flexibility to attack sequentially, to whittle away tokens, or synchronously for a hefty punch on a non-agile opponent.

To mitigate any chance of excessive-benefit (and in keeping with the theme), as the formation breaks up or loses members, the effectiveness of the combined assault weakens.

---

Then, on the movement and handling side, I've thought of a few - I'd only propose 1 would make the cut, just can't decide which...

Modification (0pt)

Vectored Thrust Control

M3-A Only

On any turn in which you perform a white Manoeuvre you gain +1 Agility (against the first attack???) in the combat phase.

OR

Modification (0pt)

Vectored Thrust Control

M3-A Only

When you perform an Evade action, you may assign 1 additional Evade token to your ship but you must also assign 1 Weapons Disabled token.

OR

Modification (1pt)

Vectored Thrust Control

M3-A Only

When you reveal a [left bank 2] or [right-bank 2] manoeuvre, you may instead perform a corresponding red [left s-loop 2] or [right s-loop 2].

(For this one, perhaps it should just be worded like Lightening Reflexes , without the discard - I know it might seem generous being “always on”, but it if you consider Scyks are a point under-costed, you’re effectively paying 2pts, and it’s limited to just one particular pair of manoeuvres)

OR

Modification (0pt)

Variable Thrust Aperture

M3-A Only

After executing a 4 [straight] you may perform a free Boost action, then receive 1 Stress token. No further actions are permitted during this activation phase.

---

I've gone for the zero-cost approach due to the general consensus that the ship is at least 1pt over-costed and under-served on at least one other aspect (be that hull or "interceptor" speed).

Edited by ABXY

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I'd prefer if they just errata'd the title to also give +1 hull.

Would be ideal, but not happening.

 

Hm, I do wonder though...

 

-snip-

 

 

Forgive the thread-omancy but it's kinda fun to revisit this old chestnut.  Cross-posting from another thread, here is my version of a Light Scyk Title:

 

Koensayr Interceptor Model

Title

M3-A Interceptor Only

 

When you reveal a [bank] maneuver,

you may treat that maneuver as a [hard turn]

maneuver of the same speed and direction.

 

Gives the Scyk reactive access to green 1 and 2 hard turns and puts a white hard 3 on the dial.  Goes from a very mediocre dial to one of the best in the game.  Certainly flies more like an Interceptor. I think it compares reasonably to Chaardan A-wings.

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I'd prefer if they just errata'd the title to also give +1 hull.

Would be ideal, but not happening.

 

Hm, I do wonder though...

 

-snip-

 

 

Forgive the thread-omancy but it's kinda fun to revisit this old chestnut.  Cross-posting from another thread, here is my version of a Light Scyk Title:

 

Koensayr Interceptor Model

Title

M3-A Interceptor Only

 

When you reveal a [bank] maneuver,

you may treat that maneuver as a [hard turn]

maneuver of the same speed and direction.

 

Gives the Scyk reactive access to green 1 and 2 hard turns and puts a white hard 3 on the dial.  Goes from a very mediocre dial to one of the best in the game.  Certainly flies more like an Interceptor. I think it compares reasonably to Chaardan A-wings.

 

 

Nice idea for a light title, it should also cost -1 points.

 

 

 

FWIW I ran the numbers on FFG's fix on December 29, 2014:

 

 

Updated with Ion Cannon and 1 defensive reroll numbers. For Ion, I consider the effect to be worth 3 points, so the PS1 effective cost is essentially 3 points less.

 

TL;DR: If you want Ion control in the 19 point range, stretch to 23 points for a PS2 Y-wing + Ion + BTL-A4 unless you REALLY want the range 3 extension from the cannon.

 

                                Cost          |      | PS1 Jousting Efficiency  | req
Ship name                actual|predict| PS1  |  JV  | std    |     range       | eff
PS2 M3-A                    14 | ????  | 13.4 | 12.2 | 90.8%  | 90.7% -  90.9%  | 128.6%
Ashera1                     18 | ????  | 14.1 | 12.2 | 86.7%  | 86.6% -  86.8%  | 203%
Serissu3                    20 | ????  | 12.8 | 12.2 | 95.7%  | 95.6% -  95.8%  | 245.7%
PS2 + Ion3                  19 | ????  | 15.4 | 11.7 | 76.1%  | 73.7% -  78.1%  | 242.1%
PS2 + Ion3+ Hull            22 | ????  | 18.2 | 13.3 | 72.9%  | 70.6% -  74.9%  | 249.7%
PS2 + Mangler               20 | ????  | 19.2 | 15.8 | 82%    | 81% -    83%    | 154.4%
PS2 + Mangler + Hull        23 | ????  | 22.1 | 17.9 | 81.2%  | 80.1% -  82.2%  | 157.2%
PS2 + HLC                   23 | ????  | 22.1 | 19.6 | 88.9%  | 86.5% -  91%    | 133.3%
PS2 + HLC + Hull            26 | ????  | 25   | 22.4 | 89.6%  | 87.1% -  91.8%  | 131.4%
PS2 + HLC + Serissu         23 | ????  | 22.1 | 22.8 | 103.4% | 100% -   106.8% | 101.5%
PS2 + HLC + Serissu + Hull  26 | ????  | 25   | 26   | 104.3% | 100.8% - 107.8% | 99.8%
 
Ion effect: valued at additional 3 points
Mangler: not considering the effect of a free hit to crit.
HLC: assumes always has an HLC shot
PS2 + HLC + Serissu: assumes always gets 1 defensive reroll

 

 

My underlying methodology has changed somewhat since then. I'm not going to re-publish all the new v3.0 numbers since the numbers for the generics are basically the same. The key fact is that these ships are essentially pure jousters, so looking at the "Jousting Value" (JV) column provides a nearly concrete value for what the ship is worth (relative to a TIE Fighter or Z-95)** before laying on higher PS, EPT slot, and pilot abilities. Executive summary:

  • M3A + HLC + Hull is worth about 22.5 points in jousting value*, and now costs 23 points.
  • M3A + Mangler + Hull is worth about 18 points in jousting value, and now costs 20 points.

 

* It's actually worth less, for 2 reasons:

  1. Glass cannons are fundamentally worth less in a tournament environment, especially when mixed with non glass cannons. HLC / 3 / 3 / 1 is still a glass cannon.
  2. The HLC can be exploited at range 1.

 

** A word of caution on "100% efficiency" that applies to both Mangler and HLC: there are a variety of pilots that now have jousting values in excess of their cost, so having a "100% jousting efficiency" as a generic pilot is no longer cost effective enough to be consistently viable post-cut at a Premier level event.

Edited by MajorJuggler

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