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SEApocalypse

How long you need to attach an attachment? Personal scale and planetary scale

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Special Modifications comes with the magnet rail system for the Modular Multi-Purpose-Fighter, the big advantage is that attachments can switched very fast via the rail system. But how big is that advantage really?

 

How long does it take to switch an attachment normally? An hour? Ten? And how long does it take to mod it and are those mods specific the the ship they are build in, interacting the with starship or weapon in unique ways or are they completely based on the attachment and can be sold together with that attachment? 

 

Have I overlooked something, is this worth a question to Sam? 

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Regarding personal scale attachments...

 

Installing an attachment is a fairly simple process (as they are designed for easy installation) and simply requires a few minutes of uninterrupted work.

There is no time frame specified in regards to vehicle attachments, at least none that I can find.

 

Now the book doesn't necessarily say one way or the other, but the general assumption is that attachments cannot be removed once they are in place. So your Hard Points are a very finite resource, b/c you cannot take off something to make room for something else.

 

That's where the Magnetic Rail system comes in handy. It does allow for swapping out attachments. That's where the real utility comes in, being able to rearrange at will.

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My group has always ruled that attachments can be removed. They're easy enough to attach that an unskilled buffoon can slap them on (no check required) so they can't be horribly complicated. Especially when you're talking about things like scopes and suppressor barrels which are made to be easily attached/removed as needed even with our comparatively primitive real world technology, it doesn't make any sense to us that they couldn't be removed.

 

We generally figure they require about an hour to install for personal equipment and 10 hours for vehicle attachments (an ad hoc ruling following the guidelines for pricing on attachment modifications).

 

Modifications to attachments, however, are permanent.

 

The advantage of the magnetic rails is that they're much faster - personal equipment can have attachments added/removed as a single action, rather than taking an hour. The magnetic rails for vehicles also make them faster to attach, though it's not as dramatic of a time saver. The advantage of the magnetic rails for vehicles is also that they generally come with some attachment options that don't exist for other vehicles.

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Thanks for the reference (EotE p. 187, AoR p. 199)

 

Not being able to remove something sounds to be honest silly AND you can actually remove weapons just fine to place other weapons, which include those paid with hardpoints. The installing new ship attachments in a couple of minutes sounds not right either, but well …. :)

 

edit: Any yeah, mods sound like a permanent thing, especially as you can not keep modding after a unsucessful check. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Like I said, the books don't outright say either way. There is no timeframe for installing attachments on ships, so we have no frame of reference to decide if the Rails offering 10 minutes is good or bad.

The books also don't outright address whether attachments can be removed after installation. Note it would make sense for some things, like a bipod or a scope. But it wouldn't make sense to remove Superior or some of the integral internal workings stuffs.

Since the books don't address these issues, it'll be up to your GM and your table. For my money, I think making ordinary attachments permanent, or at least much more time consuming to alter, makes the Rails more meaningful.

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Actually the new technician book has a side note that removing attachments is no harder than putting them on. In addition they retain any mods you have successfully added. As  always this is subject to your gm and the 'does that make any sense' rule but it has been added into the game.

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Actually the new technician book has a side note that removing attachments is no harder than putting them on. In addition they retain any mods you have successfully added. As  always this is subject to your gm and the 'does that make any sense' rule but it has been added into the game.

 

Now that is quite good info, you do not happen to know where to look for this info, because so far I have overlooked this detail. 

 

 

Found it, Page 93, side-mode and this includes for some reason silly reason starships, which makes the magnetic rail system mostly pointless outside of the ability to have special attachments which are not otherwise avaible. it makes as well the Modular Fighter completely awesome if it would not have for some reason no sensors at all. 

 

 

Or did I miss something there as well? Is there somewhere a sensor attachment which you can use with the modular fighter?

Edited by SEApocalypse

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I apologize for hijacking, but I was wondering if it's OK to put more than one of the same mod on a weapon system or starship? For example, can I slap two engine upgrades on a CR 90 to attempt to recreate the Sundered Heart?

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Within reason I don't see a reason speaking against it. You can for sure install more of the same weapon, shields are capped at 4 defense, so there is little reason to install severals, and the hyperdrive update is imo a nono for installing multiples of the same. But maybe someone else thinks you can double those as well. who knows. 

 

 

edit: But thinking about the developers aversion to stacking, I would not be surprised of there is a rule against stacking. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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My party recently had a huge payout and they decided to cap out the Hardpoints on their YT-1300 mostly with weapon upgrades, a T1 Hyperdrive and +1 Speed Ion Real Space Drive.

I ruled 1d4 days for each attachment while the ship was in a dry dock. (Swapping entire turrets, engines, and drives, with complications and required finetuning, it seemed appropiate at the time.)

 

Attachments for personal scale weapons and items I would say that it shouldn't take terribly long, depending on the items in question. (Like many have already pointed out.)

 

 

Another follow-up question regarding attachment mods. I don't have the books on me right now and it could be I missed it the first time around.

But where does it say how many different mods an attachment can have? Also is there a cost increase for modified attachments?

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Each attachment comes with a list of modification options; if it's not on that list, that modification isn't possible for that attachment. You can make as many modifications as are on the list.

 

Note that it will list a hard limit on how many times a particular modification can be made, such as "2 Damage +1 Mods" (meaning that there are two separate modification options that each increase the damage by one) or "1 Weapon Quality (Accurate +1) mod" (meaning there is one modification option which grants one rank of the Accurate weapon quality).

 

Each modification costs 100 credits for a personal item, like a weapon or armor, or 1000 credits for a vehicle attachment.

 

Note that each modification requires a Mechanics check, however. The first modification is a Hard check (3 difficulty) and each additional modification increases that difficulty by 1 (so the second modification is 4 difficulty, the third is a 5 difficulty, etc.). If you fail the Mechanics check, you can't ever make that modification to that attachment (though you are free to try any other modifications remaining and can buy a new copy of the attachment and try again on that attachment).

Edited by ghost warlock
GMRen, RicoD, bradknowles and 2 others like this

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On 11/05/2016 at 4:45 AM, Darksyde said:

Actually the new technician book has a side note that removing attachments is no harder than putting them on. In addition they retain any mods you have successfully added. As  always this is subject to your gm and the 'does that make any sense' rule but it has been added into the game.

That would open up a nasty cheat for any attachment you can fit on a blaster pistol. The Model 53 "Quicktrigger" pistol from Fly Casual reduced the difficulty of checks to mod attachments by one, so you could put the attachment on it, mod it more easily, then remove it and install it on the gun you actually want it on.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Dafydd said:

That would open up a nasty cheat for any attachment you can fit on a blaster pistol. The Model 53 "Quicktrigger" pistol from Fly Casual reduced the difficulty of checks to mod attachments by one, so you could put the attachment on it, mod it more easily, then remove it and install it on the gun you actually want it on.

Did you expect FFG to be consistent?  I think they've proven that they do what sounds cool and let the GM figure it out. 

Edited by Ahrimon
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The way I've played it is you need a cut scene, so characters walk into a shop buy the attachment pay to have it professionally installed "later" in the day they use the weapon in a combat encounter

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We play it as a an hour to attach or detach attachments for human scale stuff, as well as an additional hour per mod.

For ship attachments, it's an 8 hour shift worth of work for each attachment/mod.

This is of course assuming ideal conditions (all the right tools and facilities and non-stressful situation).

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Posted (edited)

On 11.5.2016 at 2:26 AM, bkoran said:

Now the book doesn't necessarily say one way or the other, but the general assumption is that attachments cannot be removed once they are in place. So your Hard Points are a very finite resource, b/c you cannot take off something to make room for something else.

I am pretty sure we have different input on that from the developers. 

Anyway, special modifications has a rail system for a modular fighter which allows to handle even passenger space, hyperdrive, etc as attachment. It speaks from minutes needed to make changes. 10 minutes minus 1 minute per success to be specific. Personally I would go with an hour on regular ships and reduce the time by 5 minutes per success. Fitting tools are still a requirement, which means often a crane or at least a repulsor clamp. You don't just lift this quad-laser turret out of your ship. ;-)

 

2 hours ago, Spatula Of Doom said:

We play it as a an hour to attach or detach attachments for human scale stuff, as well as an additional hour per mod.

For ship attachments, it's an 8 hour shift worth of work for each attachment/mod.

This is of course assuming ideal conditions (all the right tools and facilities and non-stressful situation).

You guys need on our to attach a scope or a sling to a rifle?!? Now at the other hand for the modding your sound extremely generous, it takes some time to make the right calibrations. ;-)

Edited by SEApocalypse

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2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

You guys need on our to attach a scope or a sling to a rifle?!? Now at the other hand for the modding your sound extremely generous, it takes some time to make the right calibrations. ;-)

If you remove the assumption that the rifle has rails on it, then it very easily could take an hour to attach a scope.  And don't forget, attaching a scope would also include the time to sight it in otherwise it would be useless.

Sling, not so much.  But there is the rare hunting rifle that doesn't come equipped with the attachment points for a sling.  But otherwise, yeah, a sling should be quick.  That's why, like much of this system, things should be left up to the GM to determine rather than having hard coded rules.

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I don't have a set time; I go with whatever makes sense for the attachment and what it's being attached to.  Mounting a scope on a rifle might only take a few minutes while installing a strength enhancement system on a suit of armor might take many, many hours. 

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22 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

You guys need on our to attach a scope or a sling to a rifle?!? Now at the other hand for the modding your sound extremely generous, it takes some time to make the right calibrations. ;-)

Obviously we apply common sense where applicable. I'm not even sure why I need to say that, but an hour is just a rule of thumb.

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On 8/16/2017 at 0:40 PM, Dafydd said:

That would open up a nasty cheat for any attachment you can fit on a blaster pistol. The Model 53 "Quicktrigger" pistol from Fly Casual reduced the difficulty of checks to mod attachments by one, so you could put the attachment on it, mod it more easily, then remove it and install it on the gun you actually want it on.

As a GM, I would rule that once an attachment has been modded for one weapon, it cannot be used on another. Simple fix.

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I generally say a day to put on an attachment. Halved for 3 Advantage on a difficulty 3 Mechanics to self install.

Quick change makes it a couple minutes.

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