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kain7th

Rate this character out of 10: The Assassin?

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he's slightly better with the flail in the game, but compare him to the troll: his strength is 3+the 3,5 he denies opponent=6,5 just ½ a point more than troll whereas the troll has 6 "real" strength which is useful especially because that allows the troll to steal objects from opponents. You dont generally want to spend your turn taking other players life, you're just wasting time for both of you while others players are advancing in strength. taking life only interesting if opponent is at 1 or 2.

 

so i'd rate him 3/10, only the priest and similar is weaker.

Edited by Rawsugar

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Even the nerfed version we use (basically 2nd ed, can only assassinate stuff that was already face-up where he lands) has the second best win-loss record of the base game characters with 7-17 (behind the trio of Elf, Monk and Troll at 8-15). One game decided to try his RAW version and went back to his nerfed version immediately, he just dominated in ridiculous manner, even despite getting zapped with Rod of Ruin twice I think (-4 Str).

 

Version we use, I'd give him an 8, RAW would probably be 9.5, stupid good.

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he's slightly better with the flail in the game, but compare him to the troll: his strength is 3+the 3,5 he denies opponent=6,5 just ½ a point more than troll whereas the troll has 6 "real" strength which is useful especially because that allows the troll to steal objects from opponents. You dont generally want to spend your turn taking other players life, you're just wasting time for both of you while others players are advancing in strength. taking life only interesting if opponent is at 1 or 2.

 

so i'd rate him 3/10, only the priest and similar is weaker.

I think the assassin gets a high rating not for taking life from other players but instead his ability to assassinate creatures. If it was just other players then I would agree with you totally.

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yeah but he's just strength 6,5 vs those+ there's some situations it doesnt even work, fair number of chars are similar strength and not limited to offense+taking life. if assassin is an 8 troll is a 12/10...

 

Assassin would be stronger than he is now if he was strength 5 and didnt have the assasinate ability, and only slightly weaker if he was strength 4.

Edited by Rawsugar

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yeah but he's just strength 6,5 vs those+ there's some situations it doesnt even work, fair number of chars are similar strength and not limited to offense+taking life. if assassin is an 8 troll is a 12/10...

 

Assassin would be stronger than he is now if he was strength 5 and didnt have the assasinate ability, and only slightly weaker if he was strength 4.

I don't understand "strength 6,5 vs those" the only time it doesn't work is when creatures roll more than 2 dice and its not battle. Most of the enemy are battle, at least he is better in non-battle than the troll. Plus a bad roll, good enemy roll will stuff up the troll. Troll would be a 6 or 7 overall out of 10.

Edited by Uvatha

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opponent not being able to roll is, on average, the same as their stat being 3,5 lower or assassins being 3,5 higher, so easiest way to compare assassin is to say his strength is 6,5 in combat.

Flail, basilisk and such special cases makes assassin slightly more powerful but less so than  the drawback of not actually having strength 6 when a test of strength is needed.

 

Troll having more to dies to work with works both way; troll can lose to a Strength 2 but he can also beat a strength 11.

 

Assassin ability doesnt work vs player attacks and gives him limited options when attacking characters. That is a HUGE drawback.

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opponent not being able to roll is, on average, the same as their stat being 3,5 lower or assassins being 3,5 higher, so easiest way to compare assassin is to say his strength is 6,5 in combat.

Flail, basilisk and such special cases makes assassin slightly more powerful but less so than  the drawback of not actually having strength 6 when a test of strength is needed.

 

Troll having more to dies to work with works both way; troll can lose to a Strength 2 but he can also beat a strength 11.

 

Assassin ability doesnt work vs player attacks and gives him limited options when attacking characters. That is a HUGE drawback.

yep troll can lose a Strength 2 but he can also beat a Strength 11. but assassin will auto bet Strength 3 and can beat Strength 8, also assassin has 2 craft up on troll too. As for strength test they are not that common a place but one can argue that the assassin has better craft test chance than troll. So in fact troll and assassin are ethier equal in rank or assassin is just that little bit better.

 

Assassin ability is not that huge of a drawback against a character attack.

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Once the Assassin has added some strength, has some weapons and other strength add-ons, he is extremely strong.  If he draws weaker enemies he can start quicker than anyone since they are close to auto-wins.  By his third or fourth turn he is usually cashing in on some trophies which is a good start.....

 

8/10 for me

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Once he gets a weapon and turns in for a strength or two, he trounces the troll, generically comparing him to the average roll doesn't work as items, fate and a million other things can manipulate rolls. Enemies don't even get to roll against this guy.

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.... guys the concept shouldnt be that hard to grasp...

if the troll lands on assassin troll has a 85% (5/6s) chance to win

if the assassin lands on the troll assassin has a 50% chance to win, and if the troll wins he can take an object rather than just a life.

 

Their chance to progress from meeting strength monsters is just about equal

 

if they both have flails its more 50/50 but thats a big if, and quite late in the game normally.

 

meanwhile troll will be stronger than most opponents keeping his items safe from most common way of stealing them: strength attack, and he will be able to take stuff from others.

 

if assassin somehow gets lucky and manages to keep up troll still has advantage in his strength score when it comes to passing tests to enter inner region and fighting bosses in the crown

 

low craft score--> fail craft tests is a valid point but balances out with trolls regenerative ability (and high strength)

fate balances with life

 

the real difference between the two is trolls defensive power vs strength, and his ability to take items from most characters with comparable progress. I don't know how you guys play to have the assassin skip from assassinaation to assasination but never be attacked by characters of equal or greater strength.

Edited by Rawsugar

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.... guys the concept shouldnt be that hard to grasp...

if the troll lands on assassin troll has a 85% (5/6s) chance to win

if the assassin lands on the troll assassin has a 50% chance to win, and if the troll wins he can take an object rather than just a life.

 

Their chance to progress from meeting strength monsters is just about equal

 

if they both have flails its more 50/50 but thats a big if, and quite late in the game normally.

 

meanwhile troll will be stronger than most opponents keeping his items safe from most common way of stealing them: strength attack, and he will be able to take stuff from others.

 

if assassin somehow gets lucky and manages to keep up troll still has advantage in his strength score when it comes to passing tests to enter inner region and fighting bosses in the crown

 

low craft score--> fail craft tests is a valid point but balances out with trolls regenerative ability (and high strength)

fate balances with life

 

the real difference between the two is trolls defensive power vs strength, and his ability to take items from most characters with comparable progress. I don't know how you guys play to have the assassin skip from assassinaation to assasination but never be attacked by characters of equal or greater strength.

Your not taking all the other expansions and rules into consideration, your like Joker2016 said just generically comparing him to the average rolls. You really need to adjust your ranking because of this.

 

But it seems you are seriously out voted anyway, everyone else has ranked the assassin very high.

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First turn of the game, assuming RAW, if I pull a Giant (Str 6) or Dragon (Str 7), I'd rather be playing the Assassin than the Troll. All would have to worry about is my roll (that I can Fate, which I have more than the Troll and being Evil, can replenish for free).

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Assassin is slightly stronger so his chance to win vs STR 6/7 is 50/33% and troll is 42/28% sure. But if the prophetess next to you gets a ring +1S/C you have no reliable way of getting that whereas the troll just need to land on her, if you get the ring yourself you have no way to protect it from a troll or spellcaster w combat magic.

That's way better than slightly improved odds.

Fate/evil is nice but not more than the trolls ability to wander into highlands insearch of strength trophies and doubledraws at relative impunity due to his high life and regeneration.

 

Anyway. The case is clear, and I've made it. If the best counterargument is "that's generic comparison" aka "I see your reasonable arguments and math, yet I still somehow feel like the ability is supercool" and I still can't sway anyone I suppose it's time to leave it alone:)

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Assassin is slightly stronger so his chance to win vs STR 6/7 is 50/33% and troll is 42/28% sure. But if the prophetess next to you gets a ring +1S/C you have no reliable way of getting that whereas the troll just need to land on her, if you get the ring yourself you have no way to protect it from a troll or spellcaster w combat magic.

That's way better than slightly improved odds.

Fate/evil is nice but not more than the trolls ability to wander into highlands insearch of strength trophies and doubledraws at relative impunity due to his high life and regeneration.

 

Anyway. The case is clear, and I've made it. If the best counterargument is "that's generic comparison" aka "I see your reasonable arguments and math, yet I still somehow feel like the ability is supercool" and I still can't sway anyone I suppose it's time to leave it alone:)

The Trolls regeneration is not that good, heal on a move roll of a 6 but in effect lose your turn. And its not just Highlands but all the sets you have to consider, not just odds math. Prob for the best for you to leave it.

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I don't mind the Assassin in a game at all, but what I don't get is the amount of players on line that go in a strop and leave the game if he is playing, I had one guy call me all sorts for choosing him and after a good half hour of ranting about it (even tho I killed no one) he quit out under a barrage of abuse about me not being a "pro player", I had to laugh at the time, but it has happened in a few games. I don't understand why so many claim he is over powered. Anyway, he gets a 7/10 from me.

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