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Arowmund

Loss of local support

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I have set up a day, tried to go every single time, promoted, etc. At this point I think it's me who is keeping people away. . . Either that or the fact that out of the 4 tables set aside, 3 of them are claimed by X-Wing. . . I am really hating their X-Wing 2.0 day (that is what I call it)

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Xwing is more popular.  

 

Are you doing anything that you think could be pushing them away?

That is a downside of having aspergers, I don't really know.

I have fun and show people how fun Armada is. They enjoy the demo I show them and even play a bigger game. From there I don't see them again or they have not bought yet. I do know the store sells Armada though because I go in and their stock is always fluctuating.

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If you're trying to grow the game, make sure you're hitting the right crowd.

 

The X Wing crowd (and board/card gamers) are more likely to find Armada to be too expensive, take up too much space and take too long to play.

 

Wargamers will find the play space smaller than they're used to, the buy-in cost a fraction of what they're used to, and the games quicker than they're used to.

 

Target the 40K and Warmachine players, the people who dabble in Infinity or DZC or even historicals. 

 

Most importantly, remember that a lot of people don't like tournaments. They're in it for the Star Wars narrative play and pushing their spaceships around making 'splodey noises and pew-pew noises. Cutting edge competitive play, with all the baggage that comes with it probably isn't their cup of tea. They just play at home with friends and relatives and have no interest in going to a store or regional championship.

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I have my buy in partner who refuses to play in events. Why? He just doesn't want the competitive aspect of the game.

I have others that have loved and bought in, yet despite 2-3 weeks notice do not show up at the store for events.

I don't take it personally. I know it's the same reasons happening that prevent me from attending X Wing events at 9pm at night they occasionally hold. I just have a dayshift job and lifestyle during the week.

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The scene in the Twin Cities, MN is pretty healthy.  We have one guy in particular who is working hard to keep things thriving.  A member of the local group even just made custom range rulers for the group for a pretty reasonable price.  Acrylic, double side, and pretty.

 

I am not posting that to brag as much to let local players know that there are people to play with, and we have a Facebook group to organize and coordinate.  Just search Twin Cities Star Wars Armada on Facebook. 

 

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The scene here in Cincinnati is dying. We have a ton of x wing and imperial assault players. We had a big group of armada players too. Honestly wave 3 has killed a lot of interest. Myself included I just can't get excited about wave 3 and am looking to get out of armada. A lot of us are going over to infinity which is awesome and doubling down on x wing or imperial assault. Armada definitely has problems it needs to fix

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I agree.  Armada has problems it needs to fix.

 

And Wave 3 fixes the majority of them.  At least on Paper.

Its obviously too early right now, but my initial impressions of my builds and tests with wave 3 are not promising. The flotillas just dont do enough to justify their cost. This is a game of firepower density and killing and flotillas in all my builds and tests reduce that significantly. I hope I'm wrong, but right now I don't think I'll be using them at all.

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I am hoping that FFG goes the route that Spartan Games did with HALO: Fall of Reach. If the 2 missing SKU's are faction starter sets we may see an increase in player pools.

I know in Portland we are saturated with game stores (at least 10 game stores that can handle 40k and Armada sized games in a 20ish mile radius) which is diluting our player pools. This is just a hypothesis on my part but I believe that is a problem here.

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Well, I can say that Armada competitive play is a tough sell, on top of the game itself being a tough sell.

 

I'm starting to realize this as I am pushing to grow the *visible* community in my city.

 

we have a population of nearly 600k but have exactly 2 game stores, one of which is completely tunnel-visionsed on MtG and X-wing because those are no-brainer profit centres.

 

The other store's owner is a big fan of Armada but his store is too small to host any serious Armada competitions, and from an economic perspective its pretty clear where the easy money is when you can pack 20 people into a store for MtG where it would be cramped for 4 people playing Armada.

 

I have connected with a local wargamers group (inifinity, bolt-action, 40K, historicals) and basically harrassed the store owner until he finally agreed to sponsor an off-site Armada tournament at their regular location, but good god it's a lot of work. Seriously, I have a full time job, a commute, 2 kids a house and a wife and it seems stupid how much time and stress and effort I'm putting into growing a game where the local store profits, the distributor profits and FFG profits and NONE of those entities with a direct interest are a driving force.

 

All that aside, I don't know about you guys but I find an Armada tournament to be an exhausting thing to participate in. I have to set aside an entire day, if I want to play well I have to be fully dialed in for essentially what works out to a full work day. No wonder its tough to find people who will

 

A) Pay the very high amount of money to play this game

B) Pay the very high time commitment to get passably good at this game

C) Pay the high mental cost to make the jump to playing outside of the living room, and the very high mental cost of playing competitively

 

Recently on a local Star Wars Gaming facebook group a young guy was asking if he should start playing xwing or Armada. I tried my best but at the end of the day, when you are competing for the same audience and the subject can only choose one, it's virtually impossible to compete with an established, regular player base, and a started box 1/3 the price (you can buy an original and a FA starter and have money left over for a ship for what it costs for the Armada core).

 

Another note. When I brought my entire Armada collection to display at the gaming groups game day to draw some eyes and interest I did end up teaching the game to one guy (which he picked up very quickly due to his wargaming background) and had a lot of watchers and people admiring the models, but one of the spectators summed it up nicely when he looked at my collection and said "Thats a lot of money right there isn't it?" errr...yes, but you don't need that much, errr....it's not as bad as it seems...errr..."Isn't the core set alone like $120" err....yeah..."how much of this stuff comes in the core?" errr....(I show the tiny proportion for the core and I can see him doing some quick mental Prack math) "wow, well, I hope it's fun..." *walks away*.

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One of our local stores gets ~15 X-wing players for their weekly gathering. Im lucky if I can find someone to play Armada with, and our major Armada tourneys often get <6 players. Im seriously considering leaving Armada for XWing, just because of the player base. :(

yep, all of this. it's sad, because I like the grander scale of armada, but there is just no justifying my continued support of it when x wing has so much more community support and organization going for it.  FFG is literally their own worst enemy right now with Imperial assault, Armada, and X-Wing all (essentially) trying to appeal to largely the same caveat of players, who are simply refusing to pick up and support more than one wave expansion based game at a time.  

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Armada is healthy here, with quite a few regulars, as well as X-wing. This may be the rare case where all of our regulars play both and we talk it out the week before as to what we will be playing. We do a lot of casual fun games with new lists all the time, along with custom content. Everyone has fun and goes home. One thing none of our guys are interested in however is tourny play, so we don't push it, and we run new lists all the time to keep things fresh.

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Armada is healthy here, with quite a few regulars, as well as X-wing. This may be the rare case where all of our regulars play both and we talk it out the week before as to what we will be playing. We do a lot of casual fun games with new lists all the time, along with custom content. Everyone has fun and goes home. One thing none of our guys are interested in however is tourny play, so we don't push it, and we run new lists all the time to keep things fresh.

Buy kits and hold league play. One of the stores in my area does that.

Now tournament play needed and you all can get fun swag

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I"m doing an Armada Demo this weekend right in the middle of an X-wing tournament. 

 

but we have had players disappear as well.  And people are buying the game, but no one is playing around our area. 

 

We have had many conversations about it.  I'm finding that this is a game that you have to practice.  other miniatures games I can put an army together and still be successful. 

Armada if you do not practice, and put thought into it you have no hope in winning.  2 players that quit, i'm pretty sure because the game is hard and they have never won a game.  The same 2 or 3 of us win all the time, and its because we eat, sleep, and breath Armada. 

 

tough to want to go to a tournament if you know you cannot win.  Most people don't seem to have the mind set of "I must get better".  They want an easy button, and X-wing seems to be that easy button. 

I don't know if its like that anymore but I have not played X-wing since wave 1 or 2.  and all it seemed to me was a guessing game as to who would pull the first u-turn.  I remember one person on here said x-wing was more like poker, and I agree

 

X-wing = checkers and Armada = chess.  The millennial generation will choose checkers every time, with exceptions of course.   

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The whole "Losing" side of things was where I marketed my League format...

 

We have a $5 Buy in, which gets you the "Everyone" Card (Which for Spring, is Leading Shots) immediately.

 

Play your Games with others in the League...  Preferably on the Day, but I count 'em during the week too...

 

2 Points for a Win.  1 Point for a Loss.  1 Point if you Tell Everyone on Facebook how your game went...

 

So yes, if you lost, you could tell everyone what went wrong (a learning experience!) and you got the same points as the Winner... 

 

Using a League Kit, That leaves 4 Copies of the Large Card (MC80 Assault).  Two of the Smaller (Millenium Falcon).  And a the Coin.

Most Points overall gets the Medal.
Most Wins gets a Falcon and the MC80

Most Losses gets an MC80

 

The other two MC80s and Falcon are for "Random Points Draws"...  Two during Week 4 (Falcon and MC80) and at the End.

 

Plus, Week 4 also happens to be a Spring Tournament (assuming I can get the time to run that as well!)

 

AND, any Entry Fees that goes above and beyond paying the Store back for the Kit, is rounded back in Random Prizes.  Last time, it was a Laser Line LOS tool...  Which was a random prize...

 

Have a small reward for the winners, but everything else should be a participation prize of some sort.

 

 

EDIT:

And at the moment...  Most Losses actually has the Most Points in the League...  because they've been pimping every game they play (and lose!) in the group.

Edited by Drasnighta

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I"m doing an Armada Demo this weekend right in the middle of an X-wing tournament. 

 

but we have had players disappear as well.  And people are buying the game, but no one is playing around our area. 

 

We have had many conversations about it.  I'm finding that this is a game that you have to practice.  other miniatures games I can put an army together and still be successful. 

Armada if you do not practice, and put thought into it you have no hope in winning.  2 players that quit, i'm pretty sure because the game is hard and they have never won a game.  The same 2 or 3 of us win all the time, and its because we eat, sleep, and breath Armada. 

 

tough to want to go to a tournament if you know you cannot win.  Most people don't seem to have the mind set of "I must get better".  They want an easy button, and X-wing seems to be that easy button. 

I don't know if its like that anymore but I have not played X-wing since wave 1 or 2.  and all it seemed to me was a guessing game as to who would pull the first u-turn.  I remember one person on here said x-wing was more like poker, and I agree

 

X-wing = checkers and Armada = chess.  The millennial generation will choose checkers every time, with exceptions of course.   

 

Again with the misguided comparisons. X-wing is not an easy button. Please refrain from commenting if you have little experience with both games.

 

Edited by chilligan

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The whole "Losing" side of things was where I marketed my League format...

 

We have a $5 Buy in, which gets you the "Everyone" Card (Which for Spring, is Leading Shots) immediately.

 

Play your Games with others in the League...  Preferably on the Day, but I count 'em during the week too...

 

2 Points for a Win.  1 Point for a Loss.  1 Point if you Tell Everyone on Facebook how your game went...

 

So yes, if you lost, you could tell everyone what went wrong (a learning experience!) and you got the same points as the Winner... 

 

Using a League Kit, That leaves 4 Copies of the Large Card (MC80 Assault).  Two of the Smaller (Millenium Falcon).  And a the Coin.

Most Points overall gets the Medal.

Most Wins gets a Falcon and the MC80

Most Losses gets an MC80

 

The other two MC80s and Falcon are for "Random Points Draws"...  Two during Week 4 (Falcon and MC80) and at the End.

 

Plus, Week 4 also happens to be a Spring Tournament (assuming I can get the time to run that as well!)

 

AND, any Entry Fees that goes above and beyond paying the Store back for the Kit, is rounded back in Random Prizes.  Last time, it was a Laser Line LOS tool...  Which was a random prize...

 

Have a small reward for the winners, but everything else should be a participation prize of some sort.

 

 

EDIT:

And at the moment...  Most Losses actually has the Most Points in the League...  because they've been pimping every game they play (and lose!) in the group.

 

This is a very cool idea, promises to drive people to play the game! I would try this with a 10 people community though, no less.

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The whole "Losing" side of things was where I marketed my League format...

 

We have a $5 Buy in, which gets you the "Everyone" Card (Which for Spring, is Leading Shots) immediately.

 

Play your Games with others in the League...  Preferably on the Day, but I count 'em during the week too...

 

2 Points for a Win.  1 Point for a Loss.  1 Point if you Tell Everyone on Facebook how your game went...

 

So yes, if you lost, you could tell everyone what went wrong (a learning experience!) and you got the same points as the Winner... 

 

Using a League Kit, That leaves 4 Copies of the Large Card (MC80 Assault).  Two of the Smaller (Millenium Falcon).  And a the Coin.

Most Points overall gets the Medal.

Most Wins gets a Falcon and the MC80

Most Losses gets an MC80

 

The other two MC80s and Falcon are for "Random Points Draws"...  Two during Week 4 (Falcon and MC80) and at the End.

 

Plus, Week 4 also happens to be a Spring Tournament (assuming I can get the time to run that as well!)

 

AND, any Entry Fees that goes above and beyond paying the Store back for the Kit, is rounded back in Random Prizes.  Last time, it was a Laser Line LOS tool...  Which was a random prize...

 

Have a small reward for the winners, but everything else should be a participation prize of some sort.

 

 

EDIT:

And at the moment...  Most Losses actually has the Most Points in the League...  because they've been pimping every game they play (and lose!) in the group.

 

This is a very cool idea, promises to drive people to play the game! I would try this with a 10 people community though, no less.

 

 

Don't expect the barrier of entry.

 

When I started League 1, it was with 4 Players, myself included.

 

But having those routinely show up on the Sunday, has grown it.

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The whole "Losing" side of things was where I marketed my League format...

 

We have a $5 Buy in, which gets you the "Everyone" Card (Which for Spring, is Leading Shots) immediately.

 

Play your Games with others in the League...  Preferably on the Day, but I count 'em during the week too...

 

2 Points for a Win.  1 Point for a Loss.  1 Point if you Tell Everyone on Facebook how your game went...

 

So yes, if you lost, you could tell everyone what went wrong (a learning experience!) and you got the same points as the Winner... 

 

Using a League Kit, That leaves 4 Copies of the Large Card (MC80 Assault).  Two of the Smaller (Millenium Falcon).  And a the Coin.

Most Points overall gets the Medal.

Most Wins gets a Falcon and the MC80

Most Losses gets an MC80

 

The other two MC80s and Falcon are for "Random Points Draws"...  Two during Week 4 (Falcon and MC80) and at the End.

 

Plus, Week 4 also happens to be a Spring Tournament (assuming I can get the time to run that as well!)

 

AND, any Entry Fees that goes above and beyond paying the Store back for the Kit, is rounded back in Random Prizes.  Last time, it was a Laser Line LOS tool...  Which was a random prize...

 

Have a small reward for the winners, but everything else should be a participation prize of some sort.

 

 

EDIT:

And at the moment...  Most Losses actually has the Most Points in the League...  because they've been pimping every game they play (and lose!) in the group.

 

This is a very cool idea, promises to drive people to play the game! I would try this with a 10 people community though, no less.

 

 

Don't expect the barrier of entry.

 

When I started League 1, it was with 4 Players, myself included.

 

But having those routinely show up on the Sunday, has grown it.

 

 

Our local community has 6 regulars, 2 just starting off. The problem isn't doing the events, we get 6-person tournaments. Our problem right now is bringing new players in, and the league wouldn't help much. A secondary problem is that most of us also play X-wing, so Armada is competing for game time (I went without playing a single live game between our last two tournaments - and they're monthly).

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Suddenly feel very lucky! I'm still relatively new to Armada, but in the past few months have got involved at a shop in Sheffield (shout out to Wargames Emporium - a really welcoming place and friendly community), which hosts X-wing and Armada nights on a Monday. I can usually count on two to four players being there - of course, X-wing players outnumber us, but I put that down to a combination of relative cost, age of the game and variety of ships to choose from.

 

This weekend a local shop is holding a tournament, and there are 32 players coming down (I've seen several people from here going, so I look forward to meeting you). For many it's a pretty long journey, but hopefully a bit of networking will enable to find other players closer to them. And from what I've heard, that's substantial growth from previous events, so here's hoping that it will continue to grow.

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Been playing both Xwing and Armada since the very beginning of both, so have vast experience with each system.

Xwing is definitely easier to pick up and play than Armada. The entry price point is another deterrent (you can get a viable 100 point fleet for Xwing for the cost of an Armada starter).

I personally much prefer Armada. I just moved to Florida, and the gaming scene here for Armada is nonexistent. Only one store in Cape Coral carries it, and they don't hold tourneys due to lack of players. I'm hoping to change this, but it'll take time. We will see.

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Again with the misguided comparisons. X-wing is not an easy button. Please refrain from commenting if you have little experience with both games.

 

 

 

Look, it's not wrong to say that the perception is that X-wing is easier to play (I don't even know how one would determine if this is true or not) and easier to start (this is true in $ terms).

 

I'm not saying that means it is correct, but I am saying it is what people believe. Part of the bar to overcome with recruiting people into Armada is understanding this and knowing how to persuade them anyways.

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