Dodonna the Oppressor revised.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Dodonna the Oppressor revised   
Author: Lyraeus

Faction: Rebel Alliance 
Points: 381/400 

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Most Wanted 
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost 
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
-  Jainas Light  ( 2  points) 
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points) 

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
-  General Dodonna  ( 20  points) 
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
-  Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Turbolaser Reroute Circuits  ( 7  points) 
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  ( 5  points) 

 

If you want to look at my Warlords build with my notes here is the link.

The list has a few changes. I am not sure if they are for the best yet so thoughts and ideas are welcome. 

This list ultimately is to combat a little of the Clonisher but to strengthen its viability as a second player list (which is still VERY low)

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

Non-Admonition is gonna have a rough time of it if you don't get first, and the DeMSU's at my regionals were all in the 370's. Consider dropping another CR90 IO for a defense upgrade appropriate to your meta and tactics on that MC30: Lando, AP, ECM, or Foresight.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Non-Admonition is gonna have a rough time of it if you don't get first, and the DeMSU's at my regionals were all in the 370's. Consider dropping another CR90 IO for a defense upgrade appropriate to your meta and tactics on that MC30: Lando, AP, ECM, or Foresight.

Projectors won't be much help. To put Lando on I would have to remove an IO.

I am used to the non-Admonition's fragility so fore I can live with it being so. It is usually the second attack or the first depending on the circumstances but that is as first player.

[Rocmistro 1,090]

so...you set up to take the pounding from Clonisher with Admonition, in the event you go 2nd, knowing you'll live, hopefully, but will emerge completely f ocked up and with only 1 defense token remaining?

 

What about dropping 1 of the CR90A's down to a B, giving you another 12 pts for initiative bid, and feeding clonisher that ship in the event you still lost the bid?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Rocmistro

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

so...you set up to take the pounding from Clonisher with Admonition, in the event you go 2nd, knowing you'll live, hopefully, but will emerge completely f ocked up and with only 1 defense token remaining?

 

Just to be clear, because I've played this game numerous times now and it always comes out the same:

 

Against the Expanded Launchers version of the Clonisher, at least, Admonition is extremely unlikely to survive the triple-tap.  Demo's front arc dishes out 8-9 damage reliably with Screed allowing aggressive rerolls; the side arc does ~5 more.  That's 21 damage.  Assuming you get to Admonition three Hit/Crits (you will), that still leaves you with 15 damage to address.  Even if Demo is shooting into the MC30's front arc, and assuming optimal use of redirect, you're still going to die to 14 damage.  Even if Demo rolls junk, don't worry, he's got either a Nav or a CF dial to finish up that last point or two of damage.

 

And you'll have zero defense tokens left.  You'll dump an evade on both shot 1 and shot 2, and you'll redirect on shot 2, leaving you with a green and a red redirect on shot 3.  IO on the green forces you to discard both if you want to redirect and Admonition.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Ardaedhel

[Lyraeus 4,759]

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

 

This is the very dilemma that I myself face.  :/

[Lyraeus 4,759]

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

 

This is the very dilemma that I myself face.  :/

You literally have to start at speed 2 take a Nav token T1, then T2 after Demolisher has done it's job you fly at speed 3-4 with your T2 Nav command right past Demolisher. This is to for it to do a 180 which can take it 2 to 3 turns to come around. Yes, you lose a 92g100 point list but you should be able to weaken or kill demo with TRC shots in e turn you lost a ship. Just DON'T lose 2 ships or you are done.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

 

 

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

 

This is the very dilemma that I myself face.  :/

You literally have to start at speed 2 take a Nav token T1, then T2 after Demolisher has done it's job you fly at speed 3-4 with your T2 Nav command right past Demolisher. This is to for it to do a 180 which can take it 2 to 3 turns to come around. Yes, you lose a 92g100 point list but you should be able to weaken or kill demo with TRC shots in e turn you lost a ship. Just DON'T lose 2 ships or you are done.

 

 

You're done as soon as you've lost the first ship, because losing activation parity and going second is death in this matchup.  

I'm looking at a 6-ship build to give myself something I can sacrifice to buy time.  Last night I played a GGGGR.  Demo jumped out first activation of T2 and one-shotted a CR90 (my opening deployment that was flying away from Demo as aggressively as possible), leaving me out-activated and helpless for the rest of the game.  

[rant]It's ******* ludicrous, there is nothing else in the game even close to that combination of reliability, hitting power, staying power, and threat radius.[/rant]

[Lyraeus 4,759]

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

 

This is the very dilemma that I myself face.  :/

You literally have to start at speed 2 take a Nav token T1, then T2 after Demolisher has done it's job you fly at speed 3-4 with your T2 Nav command right past Demolisher. This is to for it to do a 180 which can take it 2 to 3 turns to come around. Yes, you lose a 92g100 point list but you should be able to weaken or kill demo with TRC shots in e turn you lost a ship. Just DON'T lose 2 ships or you are done.

 

You're done as soon as you've lost the first ship, because losing activation parity and going second is death in this matchup.  

I'm looking at a 6-ship build to give myself something I can sacrifice to buy time.  Last night I played a GGGGR.  Demo jumped out first activation of T2 and one-shotted a CR90 (my opening deployment that was flying away from Demo as aggressively as possible), leaving me out-activated and helpless for the rest of the game.  

[rant]It's ******* ludicrous, there is nothing else in the game even close to that combination of reliability, hitting power, staying power, and threat radius.[/rant]

Sure, losing a ship is harsh but if you can fly in a way to limit Demolisher you should have a chance. Give him an end of turn option with your MC30. He kills 1 of your ships or you possibly eat 2 of his Raiders. It is the toughest match up I can think of. The other option is dropping IO on a the TRC90's. That is 21 more points to play with. That or take out Dodonna and add Rieekan but that would change the style of play IMMENSELY and you would want Assault Concussion Missiles instead of Assault Proton Torpedoes.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I agree btw. Demolisher is a HUGE issue with Engine Techs. If it could not Engine Techs and then shoot we would see it as strong but not all powerful.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

 

 

 

 

An Expanded Launchers Demolisher is he biggest threat. My hope is that if I lose one of the MC30's I can get the rest of my ships past Demolisher's range and make it water turns turning around while I poke at the rest of his ships.

Dropping to a SW90 might work but I am not sure. . .

 

This is the very dilemma that I myself face.  :/

You literally have to start at speed 2 take a Nav token T1, then T2 after Demolisher has done it's job you fly at speed 3-4 with your T2 Nav command right past Demolisher. This is to for it to do a 180 which can take it 2 to 3 turns to come around. Yes, you lose a 92g100 point list but you should be able to weaken or kill demo with TRC shots in e turn you lost a ship. Just DON'T lose 2 ships or you are done.

 

You're done as soon as you've lost the first ship, because losing activation parity and going second is death in this matchup.  

I'm looking at a 6-ship build to give myself something I can sacrifice to buy time.  Last night I played a GGGGR.  Demo jumped out first activation of T2 and one-shotted a CR90 (my opening deployment that was flying away from Demo as aggressively as possible), leaving me out-activated and helpless for the rest of the game.  

[rant]It's ******* ludicrous, there is nothing else in the game even close to that combination of reliability, hitting power, staying power, and threat radius.[/rant]

Sure, losing a ship is harsh but if you can fly in a way to limit Demolisher you should have a chance. Give him an end of turn option with your MC30. He kills 1 of your ships or you possibly eat 2 of his Raiders. It is the toughest match up I can think of. The other option is dropping IO on a the TRC90's. That is 21 more points to play with. That or take out Dodonna and add Rieekan but that would change the style of play IMMENSELY and you would want Assault Concussion Missiles instead of Assault Proton Torpedoes.

 

 

Completely agree.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

When you threaten the 2 Raiders you have to pray for 5 damage and an Accuracy each time, or 9+ damage straight out. Both options are hard. Getting a Structural Damage card changes that but not by much.

What is the average damage of a MC30 Scout side arc anyways? Anyone know?

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

Unmodified it's 4.5.

OE bumps it to 4.8 (assuming you have to reroll everything fishing for the APT crits).

TRC gives you another ~1.  A little less if you're fishing for the accuracy like you are.

APT gives you .85.

 

Dodonna fishing for Structural or Shield Failure will average you another .65.

So yours should average a little over 7 damage on a regular side arc, all told.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Which unless you have an Accuracy is just 1 shy of a garentee kill on a Raider.

7 can kill a Raider if they don't have their brace but they will likely have it or if they are short 1 shield. It can also lead to he needed Structural Damage.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Lyraeus

[clontroper5 4,233]

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

We will see. Will you be at Tacoma? If so I hope to meet you on the final table.

[clontroper5 4,233]

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

We will see. Will you be at Tacoma? If so I hope to meet you on the final table.

yes I will be there

[Lyraeus 4,759]

 

 

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

We will see. Will you be at Tacoma? If so I hope to meet you on the final table.

yes I will be there

 

What about Vancouver?

[clontroper5 4,233]

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

We will see. Will you be at Tacoma? If so I hope to meet you on the final table.

yes I will be there

What about Vancouver?

can't go to Vancouver unfortunately

[Lyraeus 4,759]

 

 

 

 

Plotting against me I see...

You will NOT prevail!

We will see. Will you be at Tacoma? If so I hope to meet you on the final table.

yes I will be there

What about Vancouver?

can't go to Vancouver unfortunately

 

I HAVE A CHANCE!

[Vergilius 2,118]

I'm going to give a special thanks to both Lyraeus and Ardaedhel for their committment to Dodonna and these lists.  I feel I learn a lot from reading these threads.  I've also been working on a similar fleet archetype lately.  Given that Clonisher style builds and Rhymer balls have been big in the tournament meta, I think they are the first two archetypes I consider when building a fleet.  My sense is that if you've got a plan, even if it is a tough plan that requires superb execution, you're in a great position overall, because you've probably got many good plans against the other archetypes out there.

 

I think Lando is a big key since if you do face any build that does mass damage and ends up with multiple die faces with double-hits, you just reroll the entire lot.  I'm not just sure whether to try to build an MC30 to try to weather one.  The sacrificial lamb approach seems to work better as Rieekan.

 

I know Lyraeus has mentioned doing reasonably well against squadrons elsewhere, but I'm curious on more specifics on how those builds are playing out against this archetype.

[beefcake4000 371]

I really like the build but I don't think I can pull it off. Too many squadrons in my area and no squadrons for me would be suicide. No easy answer though and I love that you guys are pursuing with Doddonna. Seems that rieeken is the flavour of the month probably because it makes it harder for demo but I never consider trading ships is the ideal solution.

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

I do not attack with one MC30 at a time; he who attacks with one MC30 at a time time has forgotten the face of his father.

I attack with both MC30's simultaneously.

I do not linger near squadrons; he who lingers near squadrons has forgotten the face of his father.

I juke squadrons with nav commands and banked tokens.

I do not let a scary-looking broadside deter me from being where I need to be; he who lets a scary-looking broadside deter him has forgotten the face of his father.

I take calculated risks and trust Lando to save me.

I do not let a carrier escape with one hull left; he who lets a carrier escape with one hull left has forgotten the face of his father.

I keep my CR90's in reserve to cover escape routes behind my MC30's.

--

It seriously is a matter of **** The Torpedoes. Kill them faster than they can kill you. Specifically, kill a carrier fast.

Against bomber builds, the trick is to try and jump "across" the leading edge of the bomber line, and kill a big squadron pusher early to cut down on your incoming fire. Tackling one carrier will slow most bomber builds down quite a bit. All of your ships are actually pretty resilient to squadron attacks, at least for one round. Admonition doubly so.

Keep that in mind when working your placement and activation order: Admonition can withstand some squadron punishment. If it's a question of getting of getting Admonition or the other MC30 out of the bomber swarm, get the other one out. Admonition can handle herself against them.

I won't tell you fighting bomber builds is easy. One of your big weaknesses with these lists is being out deployed, and the squadron lists are the ones that can do it. If you know you're going to be out deployed, focus around killing that first ship they plopped down, even if it's a throwaway. Very few carrier lists have ships that they actually don't need, and every lost squadron activation is one more squadron whose damage good maneuvering can mitigate. Even if it's a throwaway CR90, chances are they've stuck Tantive and/or Leia on it for support: go steal away an activation and a bunch of tokens.

I also suggest, if you're nerdy enough, some Armada calisthenics. Set up your ships and some squadrons, and figure out how to juke them. Go look at what a CR90 needs to do to avoid inactivated A-wings. What about TIE bombers? What about your MC30, what can it do? What if you don't have a nav token? No dial? Is it possible to place unavoidable squadrons? I did this from the side of the squadron player several months ago, trying to figure out where I could put un-commanded bombers to guarantee shots on various ships. It was very enlightening, and has helped me a lot on the other side of the coin trying to juke them.

Also, don't forget your goat blood offerings to the dice gods.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Ardaedhel

[AckAckAckbar 33]

I have to say, that I hate that everything has to revolve around the question, "What about the Demolisher?". In a game with so many ships and upgrades, the fleet builds are endless. But because of one ship being able to move twice, every fleet build has to be able to compete with that one ship. I can't believe games designers would come up with a special rule so powerful that it overshadows everything else.

I would like to choose a fleet because it is fun to play or has a story, not "Can it survive T1 against a Demolisher?"