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Gigerstreak

Force User vs Force User

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Sorry if this has been covered but I ran into an issue with attack based Force Powers and my PCs.

 

So my Nemesis throws force lightning at my PC sage. The PC's Discipline is 4 and 2, he has deflection 1 and Sense upgraded and committed. So my question is this:

 

To throw lightning, is the difficulty just 2 purple dice?  Is it 2 red challenge dice and a black setback due to the average difficulty being upgraded by my PC's usual ranged defenses? or is it 2 red challenge dice and 2 purple difficulty dice due to his opposed Discipline? Or is the staggering 4 red challenge dice and a black setback dice due to using his opposed Discipline and upgrading from the use of Sense and deflection 1???  

 

 

Same question but for Move object. Is the difficulty the silhouette of the object? The silhouette of the object AND the usual ranged defenses? Or is it the PC's Discipline AND the usual ranged defenses??!?

 

How does the adversary talent work with opposed Discipline checks coming from a PC to a nemesis?

 

Using the Discipline as part of the check is confusing me.  Thank you for any and all clarifications! 

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Short version is "it depends."

 

Generally speaking, if using a Force power involves a combat check with a set difficulty, such as is the case of using Unleash or hurling an object at someone with Move, then the target cannot make it an opposed check.  Same as if using the power already requires an opposed check, like using the Influence control upgrade to affect emotions/thoughts.

 

Now, if you were to use Move directly one another Force user (or important NPC) so that you could hurl them into a wall, then the target could make it an opposed check, since affecting them directly with Move doesn't involve a combat check, since it's the wall that you're hurling the "object" into.

 

A general rule of thumb is that if there's no skill check involved in using a Force power to begin with, then the target can opt to make it an opposed check.  There's bound to be exceptions, especially as we get new Force powers and new talents as more material gets published, but it's a decent starting place.

 

Now, with Force powers that require a combat check, these are generally treated as ranged combat checks, so if the target has any abilities that alter the difficulty of a ranged combat check, those get applied.  So while Unleash has a base difficulty of 2 purple, so the defense upgrade from Sense as well as the point of ranged defense would both apply.

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Sorry if this has been covered but I ran into an issue with attack based Force Powers and my PCs.

 

So my Nemesis throws force lightning at my PC sage. The PC's Discipline is 4 and 2, he has deflection 1 and Sense upgraded and committed. So my question is this:

 

To throw lightning, is the difficulty just 2 purple dice?  Is it 2 red challenge dice and a black setback due to the average difficulty being upgraded by my PC's usual ranged defenses? or is it 2 red challenge dice and 2 purple difficulty dice due to his opposed Discipline? Or is the staggering 4 red challenge dice and a black setback dice due to using his opposed Discipline and upgrading from the use of Sense and deflection 1???  

 

 

Same question but for Move object. Is the difficulty the silhouette of the object? The silhouette of the object AND the usual ranged defenses? Or is it the PC's Discipline AND the usual ranged defenses??!?

 

How does the adversary talent work with opposed Discipline checks coming from a PC to a nemesis?

 

Using the Discipline as part of the check is confusing me.  Thank you for any and all clarifications! 

F&D page 283: "When any character attempts to use a Force power against a PC (or a PC attempts to use a Force power against a powerful NPC, such as a nemesis or plot-important named rival), the Force power check becomes an opposed check, if it is not already opposed or a combat check."

 

For Unleash: It is listed as a ranged attack that uses an Average Discipline check instead of the normal difficulty for ranged attacks. So it would not be an opposed check but all ranged defenses (Sense, Dodge, Sidestep, Ranged Defense, etc) should apply. I also believe that this would allow the use of Aim.

 

Adversary Talent: "Upgrade the difficulty of any combat check targeting this character once per rank of Adversary." So Unleash would qualify, as it's a ranged combat check.

 

For Move: "The attack's difficulty is equal to the silhouette of the object being thrown instead of the normal difficulty for ranged attacks,..." So Move with the Control:Hurl upgrade, becomes a ranged attack, and same as Unleash, includes all modifiers included with ranged attacks, so it would not be an opposed check. However, if the PC (or Nemesis doing it to a player) were to pick up and throw the Nemesis at another target, I would certainly count that as an opposed check. 

 

Bind/Harm are Force checks, not combat checks, so Adversary would not apply, but they would be opposed checks. I also believe that you can use them and still qualify for Supreme Parry/Reflect, unlike Unleash and Hurl.

 

Edit: Dono beat me to it.

Edited by Holzy

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