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Chimpy

Will we see Rogue Trader 2nd edition?

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I'm kind of interested in Rogue Trader RPG (FFG Star Wars RPG is my usual go to game, but I fancy branching out). I've seen that Dark Heresy has an updated 2nd edition and I wondered if perhaps Rogue Trader would get the same treatment?

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When DH2 was in Beta, the official word at that time was that none of the other 40K RPG lines would be getting updated.  That said, they might change their minds (or might have already).  

 

If they do, however, I'd bet that it will be more like DH2 than EotE.  

Edited by Vorzakk

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I'm hoping if they do update Rogue Trader that they release it like a source book or an add-on to DH2E. I'd like to have good rules for crossing over between systems, as right now even with the "XP rules" there's a lot of disparity between systems.

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I've not looked at Rogue Trader - I had hoped that the vast majority of the gameplay mechanics were the same as DH2E which I do own.

 

The 'vast majority' of mechanics are the same, but DH2 has a lot of refinement and rebalancing. The biggest differences are in the character creation system; RT uses hard-defined Careers which dictate what advances a character can take and when, while DH2 uses Aptitudes to set the cost of advances, rewarding in-career advancement choices with lower costs and punishing out-of-field choices with higher costs (but without forbidding them outright). 'Second generation' WH40KRP (Black Crusade, Only War, Dark Heresy 2) isn't perfect by any means, but it is a notable improvement over 'first generation' WH40KRP (Dark Heresy 1, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch).

Edited by Adeptus-B

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I've not looked at Rogue Trader - I had hoped that the vast majority of the gameplay mechanics were the same as DH2E which I do own.

 

The 'vast majority' of mechanics are the same, but DH2 has a lot of refinement and rebalancing. The biggest differences are in the character creation system; RT uses hard-defined Careers which dictate what advances a character can take and when, while DH2 uses Aptitudes to set the cost of advances, rewarding in-career advancement choices with lower costs and punishing out-of-field choices with higher costs (but without forbidding them outright). 'Second generation' WH40KRP (Black Crusade, Only War, Dark Heresy 2) isn't perfect by any means, but it is a notable improvement over 'first generation' WH40KRP (Dark Heresy 1, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch).

 

 

 

RT also rewards in-career advancement while punishing out-of-career choices, they just do it differently with Elite Advancements.

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Elite Advances are very vague though, and players won't usually think of them.

 

I actually really like Only War/Black Crusade/DH2E, and there is a fan made conversion that turns RT's character creation into that. It's not perfect, but I do like the idea.

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Elite Advances are very vague though, and players won't usually think of them.

 

I actually really like Only War/Black Crusade/DH2E, and there is a fan made conversion that turns RT's character creation into that. It's not perfect, but I do like the idea.

Where did you find this? 

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I remember seeing it on Dark Reign Radwraith but that site is gone.

 

I might have the PDFs lurking in my computer still but I'll have to have a look about. The supplements for DH2E give a lot of suitable options including Astropaths and backgrounds like Rogue Trader Fleet and Imperial Navy.

 

Personally I just go with using DH2E as my engine for games. For character creation I just have people go through the steps for DH2E and then pick a suitable class from Rogue Trader getting the starting skills, talents, special abilities and gear of that class. If you want an even more powerful group of PCs let them take all the perks of a Rogue Trader lifepath as well as long as it lines up with with their other choices. After character generation they advance as normal as for a DH2E character.

 

Aside from that I only really use the ship rules from Rogue Trader though that's the main thing I think a Rogue Trader Second Edition would need to update as they are a bit ungainly at points. Aside from that the last game I ran I just gave the PCs Profit Factor as well as personal influence. Influence was great for them to pick up smaller items with and call in favours. But I'd be tempted in future games just to go with influence and have the PCs get a bonus to it based on something like a number equal to starting profit factor divided by five.

 

But then again I'm somewhat unhinged and running a DW game using DH2E as my engine.

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Perhaps we will, but as stated above, most likely it'll be in the form of a supplement to DH2, and if not, it'll likely be based off of the Aptitude system, and be highly compatible with both DH2 and OW. Almost every character type from RT can be achieved in DH2 now, with a handful of exceptions, specifically, the Rogue Trader, Navigator, and xenos. However, these things aren't too difficult to adapt if you use KiSS rules.

I'm in the middle of tooling up a 'next-generation' game for RT using DH2 rules, and our group has come up with some interesting solutions for things. For example, we're running Influence as each player's personal salary with the Dynasty, and Profit Factor as the money of the Dynasty as a whole. Players use Influence for acquiring personal stuff (such as a new power sword, or a shiny new suit of void armor), and PF for acquiring things for the Dynasty (such as starship components, or new hellguns for the armsmen). Only the Rogue Trader can use PF for all his personal purchases, but other players can attempt to do so as well... if they're willing to run the risk of getting caught by the Rogue Trader or the Dynasty's Accounting Department.

Edited by Crow Eye

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Perhaps we will, but as stated above, most likely it'll be in the form of a supplement to DH2, and if not, it'll likely be based off of the Aptitude system, and be highly compatible with both DH2 and OW. 

It's a shame OW is out of print otherwise I'd get that too!

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I, for one, hope that they do something, preferably, as was said, in the form of a supplemental book to DH2, so I don't have to invest in another whole line of stand-alone books; I know that their business plan would like it, but I've already dropped a lot into all of their other 40k lines, minus BC, and Star Wars, none of which has seen a game run, and Rogue Trader is definitely my favorite line of the 40k materials. A nice book that might flesh out some aspects/details of Profit Factor, and dynasty, coupled with some improved rules on starships, and space actions/combat (though I've heard even Star Wars hasn't made a good system for that, yet, so I might not hold my breath) would be great. As I see it, DH2 has already done a lot of the work, the Rogue Trader might be an Elite Advance option, like Inquisitor is, I think much of it could even be tweaked from it, as is, minus space combat. Oh well, here's hoping, if nothing else.

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(though I've heard even Star Wars hasn't made a good system for that, yet, so I might not hold my breath)

Star Wars' vehicle combat system is very vague and hand-wavey. I generally ignore the bits about speed and distance because it's too hard to keep track off. Difficulty of attack is set by "silhouette" difference between the ships so doesn't rely on separation. I really like the Star Wars system but the vehicle combat is probably the weakest area.

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It's a shame OW is out of print otherwise I'd get that too!

 

OW has the most detailed vehicle rules of any WH40KRP game; worth checking eBay or Amazon (or used book stores, if you are lucky enough to live someplace where those still exist...).

Edited by Adeptus-B

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As I see it, DH2 has already done a lot of the work, the Rogue Trader might be an Elite Advance option, like Inquisitor is, I think much of it could even be tweaked from it, as is, minus space combat.

Was thinking the same thing, about the Rogue Trader being an elite advance. Grant the player a Warrant of Trade, a starship, Profit Factor (and direct access to it), and the Exceptional Leader special ability, and call it good. Make it cost 1000xp, so a player can take it right out of the gate. Starting Starship and PF are still at the approval of the GM, and earning the Warrant after CC requires good in-game role-playing.

In any case, I forget myself, this isn't a thread of adapting the setting and rules, but conjecture on whether or not there'll ever be anything official at all, so I'll shut up now.

Edited by Crow Eye

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If they do do a second edition, I suspect it won't be for some time. My guess is that since FFG has the Star Wars RPG license, they don't want to release a competing game. They still sell the books, PDFs... But no interest at this point. It's kinda too bad, but there's lots of great house rules and fan produced supplements floating around. 

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For example, we're running Influence as each player's personal salary with the Dynasty, and Profit Factor as the money of the Dynasty as a whole. Players use Influence for acquiring personal stuff (such as a new power sword, or a shiny new suit of void armor), and PF for acquiring things for the Dynasty (such as starship components, or new hellguns for the armsmen). Only the Rogue Trader can use PF for all his personal purchases, but other players can attempt to do so as well... if they're willing to run the risk of getting caught by the Rogue Trader or the Dynasty's Accounting Department.     

     

Not a million miles away from the existing system - for 'dynasty's wealth' read 'the Inquisitor's Influence' - with, again, problems for overusing it. I'd agree with having a 1,000xp Rogue Trader elite advance and 1,000xp Navigator elite advance, everything else you can pretty much make.

 

Starship rules (especially combat rules) could do with a bit of a massage, but that's all. Other than that, allowing for rules for using the dynasty's influence value for 'large scale purchases' - essentially x100 or more - and recruiting 'reinforcement characters' by the battalion, as well as 'large scale' actions - a series of 'large scale' survival & tech use tests to establish a colony, or a series of ballistic skill and willpower tests to hold a defensive position against armed gibbering mutant natives with sharpened slices of watermelon.

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For example, we're running Influence as each player's personal salary with the Dynasty, and Profit Factor as the money of the Dynasty as a whole. Players use Influence for acquiring personal stuff (such as a new power sword, or a shiny new suit of void armor), and PF for acquiring things for the Dynasty (such as starship components, or new hellguns for the armsmen). Only the Rogue Trader can use PF for all his personal purchases, but other players can attempt to do so as well... if they're willing to run the risk of getting caught by the Rogue Trader or the Dynasty's Accounting Department.     

     

Not a million miles away from the existing system - for 'dynasty's wealth' read 'the Inquisitor's Influence' - with, again, problems for overusing it. I'd agree with having a 1,000xp Rogue Trader elite advance and 1,000xp Navigator elite advance, everything else you can pretty much make.

 

Starship rules (especially combat rules) could do with a bit of a massage, but that's all. Other than that, allowing for rules for using the dynasty's influence value for 'large scale purchases' - essentially x100 or more - and recruiting 'reinforcement characters' by the battalion, as well as 'large scale' actions - a series of 'large scale' survival & tech use tests to establish a colony, or a series of ballistic skill and willpower tests to hold a defensive position against armed gibbering mutant natives with sharpened slices of watermelon.

 

The fact is that it really isn't that far off. The "Commander" Elite advance in OW: HOE could serve as a good template for a RT with some modification. Navigator's a little  harder because the trait and backstory would require a VERY specific set of prerequisites. Arch militants could be built as an elite advance pretty easily as could any of the others. (Astropaths already exist in DH2.)

 

Starships and Starship combat could in fact use a little work but IMO this would be more to bring them in line with what they were in Battlefleet gothic than anything else. It's probably in the realm of Starships and Stellar exploration that the book would need the most work.

 

PF-Influence is the other place I would do a lot of tinkering. The conversion itself is easy. Apply a -30 additional scale modifiers greater than a single Item and you can use influence directly. The endeavor system would need some cleaning up IMO though! This would probably be where I would spend a lot of effort as well.

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Why would Navigator, a thing you need to be from birth, be 1,000xp? I grant you, some of the things they can do are pretty cool, Untouchables only cost 300, and are the rarest beings in existence. Granted, I know they aren't, necessarily, what everyone hoped they'd be, but if they only cost that, I can't see the Navigator advance costing 1,000, especially as some people develop psychic abilities later, but every Navigator was born one. Maybe work like Battle Sisters, and have a required background, and they'll have to buy up their powers, like Psykers, and Untouchables, do, but with these facts in place, I'm not sure they can cost much more, especially with all the negatives they can have, by virtue of their genetics.

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Why would Navigator, a thing you need to be from birth, be 1,000xp?

To simply be 'a navigator' - you're right; probably not. I was more thinking about "to fit in starting XP", but you only have to have 'navigator' itself include a very limited block of abilities - the Elite Advance itself can contain future options, and most of the good stuff will sit in those.

The Starting advance probably only needs a fellowship penalty (but maybe an influence bonus to balance it out), navigate (warp), psyniscience and operate (voidship).

That's two very situation-specific skills, so I can't imagine it costing that much.

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