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El_Jairo

Hierophant, Shrine World Melee build help

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Hi everybody,

 

I would like to seek out some help from the community in determining an effective build for my Hierophant.

I started him off thinking the DH2.0 wasn't so much about optimized builds but I was wrong of course as taking talents because they look cool or are advised in the core book isn't the best idea.

 

So basically, I have 7500 xp and the following base stats (which I can't re-roll).

I am looking for your experiences or ideas.

 

WS 36,  BS 37, S 31, T 37, AG 20, INT 33, PER 32, WP 38 FEL 31

 

My aptitudes are: WP, Leadership, FEL, Social, Toughness and I picked WS.

 

My character's background is a Priest that got detached in the IG in a war vs Orks. He was leading the guardsmen in combat before he was drafted by the inquisition.

 

My idea was to build the following:

Some Melee ability, as our party is lacking this and I like the idea of him being a little bit like a commisar: swinging his sword for morale mainly :P

 

I know AG 20 is really bad, so I wanted to compensate for that by a refractor field, to have some kind of defence.

Other gear would be Chainsaw (custom grip), Hotshot Lasgun (red-dot).

For combat I would choose the following talents: Swift Attack, Inescapable Attack and Blade Master

 

Boost some stats: WS to 46, T to 42, PER to 37 (for inescapable attack). I would also like to boost FEL to 41 (to be effective at skill checks) and WP to 42 for the WP bonus on Sway the Masses (though this seems less important).

 

What are the roleplay talents, apart from Peer(X) that would fit a talky character, who get's his way by persuading people?

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How did you get 20 agility?

I rolled badly and I wanted to re-roll a bad 23 or so on perception.

I wasn't aware that AG solely determines your movement, I thought S should be involved.

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This still doesen't explain how a 2D20+ 20 can get a 20... (when it's not 2D10+25)

I forgot: this is because the "Violence solves everything" Divination: Turned 23 into 20. But I could swap this with -3 to INT, which isn't bad either right?

My logic was: failing an INT based check by 1-3 % isn't going to kill me but failing that dodge check might ;)

Edited by El_Jairo

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You are only listing 6 aptitudes, you should have 7?

 

I would select

Shrine World: Willpower

Adeptus ministorum: Social    (leadership is really really awefull)

Hierophant: Fellowship, Offence, Social, Toughness, Willpower

 

Double willpower and social means you can choose two characteristics aptitudes, like weapon skill and agility if you want some melee stuff.

 

Then you can buy

Agility +10 (total 750xp) and have decent movement.

Weapon skill +15 for 850xp

Dodge +10 for 600xp   (it is just too often you cant use parry)

Parry +10 for 600xp

Blade master 600xp

Swift attack 450xp

 

That is total 3850 xp and leaves you with a basic melee setup and 3650 xp to invest in persuading people.

 

If you want inescapable attack you need to improve your perception too, so that will be extra 500xp since you have no aptitudes for perception and further 450 for the talent.

 

If you have to keep leadership for some reason, I would still get Agility +10 (this time for 1250xp) and then just Dodge +00 (300xp), 200 xp more expensive than the model above.

 

Might be errors in my calculations! Check for yourself. ;-)

Edited by Alox

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Wow thanks Alox, I didn't realise that leadership is such a bad Aptitude and that you can choose to have double aptitudes on purpose.

Being able to choose Agility for aptitude makes the Melee build a whole lot more viable. :)

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I'd definitely make sure you get Parry to at least +10. If you're planning on making a duellist (ish) then parry with a decent quality balanced weapon is probably your best bet. You're never going to make dodge especially useful without sinking a huge amount of XP into it.

 

The force field might be a better choice than the hotshot las, and for that matter a good quality customised shield might not be a bad plan to double-down on parry.

 

Remember that stats aren't everything. A priest can probably get away with a suitably ornate chainblade in most social circumstances (especially as a former Militarum Auxilia). An armour-piercing assault rifle is going to draw comment anywhere outside the underhive, where it's going to draw envious and larcenous attention instead.

 

Peer is good, as is Clues From The Crowds.

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I thank you for all the good insights.

@Magnus Grendel how does the shield buff the parry? If you parry with the blade for +10 parry, you don't get the blade bonus right?

I do think that I have to invest in Dodge though. I don't expect to be in melee with all my foes.

Could you please give me an example of a good shield. I didn't find any in the book that where appealing to me. I was rather thinking of going two weapon fighting in the long run.

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OK, here is my build so far (currently at 9000xp spent)

I would like to here your opinion if it is not too combat focussed. I have the feeling that my character build doesn't really support combat that well because I don't have the Finesse aptitude which is required for most useful combat talent.

!WARNING: long post incoming!

First off: I got a refund for stat upgrades because, apparently I rolled really bad in comparison to the other acolytes on my stats (about 50% lower).

Shrine World: Willpower

Adeptus ministorum: Social

Hierophant: Fellowship, Offence, Social, Toughness, Willpower

Doubles get me: Weapon Skill and Agility

Divination: Violence Solves Everything (+3 WS -3 INT)

Characteristics:

WS 46 with Simple and Intermediate upgrades for (350xp)

BS 42

S 31

T 42

AG 33 SI (750xp)

INT 30

PER 37

WP 43

FEL 41 SI (350xp)

Total Wounds 9

Total XP spent on Char upgrades 1450xp

Talents

Hatred (Heretical Cults) Free

Weapon Training (Solid Projectile) Free

Resistance (Fear) 300xp

Clues from the Crowds 200xp

WT Las & Chain 600

Swift Attack 450

Inescapable Attack 450

Blademaster 600

Whirlwind of Death 450 (This seems a little situational but after all I am the only Melee character)

Combat Master 450 (Again situational but a fellow player told me this is key for melee characters)

Hardy 450 (Although the best way to survive is not taking any damage but breaking the healing mechanic is too good to pass on)

Total 3950 xp spent on Talents

Skills (KTEV = Known, Trained, Expert & Veteran)

Athletics K 200

Awareness K 300

Charm KT 200 (K Free)

Command K 200

CL Ecclesiarchy K Free

CL Imperial Creed K 100*

CL Imperial Guard K 100*

Deceive KT 300

Dodge KT 600

FL Heresy K 150*

FL Mutants K 150*

Inquiry KT 300

Interrogation KT 300

Intimidate K 200

Linguistics High Gothic Free

Medicae K 300

Parry K 200

Scrutiny K Free

*We get a 50% reduction on all Lore skills in our campaign.

Total 3600 XP spent on Skills

Grand total 900xp Spent of which 5350xp is directly linked to combat proficiency (= 59,44%)

Before I dive into my wishlist, here is my current gear:

  • Hot-Shot Lasgun, Custom Grip and Red-Dot
  • I took this, to be somewhat effective at range because typically you are not always in melee range.
  • Chainsword, Custom Grip and currently modded with a Exterminator (which threw off the balance of the blad because our Tech-Priest messed the mod up, so I want it removed and placed on my Lasgun)
  • Militarum Tempustus Carapace
  • Refractor Field

And the following Talents are still high on my wanted list (in order of priority):

Quick Draw 300, to avoid losing a Half Action or a full round in equipping weapons.

Parry +10 400, for survival in Melee.

True Grit 600, for obvious survivability

Crushing Blow 400, for damage output and because it's a Tier 3 Talent I have both aptitudes for!

One on One 450 ,for damage output in a duel

Disarm 300, because it seems appealing to knock the opponents weapon free in a duel.

Take Down 200, because I don't want to kill the suspect I still want to interrogate.

This list does look quite long and would need another 2650 XP! And this doesn't include boosting any stats: here WS, Strength and Toughness seem most important and affordable.

Something else I wonder about is: is it worth to take extra wounds? At 200xp a pop I pay lowest the possible price yet it feels like throwing away xp in comparison to other talents.

And I already feel I have over invested in Combat Talents and I feel I desperately need some Social interraction Talents.

Yes another list incoming ;-) In order of importance

Peer Ecclisarchy 200, Peer Inquisition 200

Coordinated Interrogation 450

If you have read down to here, you might have wondered why I took some skills like, CL IG, Athlecs and Medicae. This is because my GM wrote me a wounderfull background story how my character was detached to a IG unit fighting an Ork invasion before he was selected to join the inquisition. I really like to have a character build that represents this history so I want to keep some traces in. I already have cut Jaded (although a great talent) to become more efficient in combat, as this would be very much appreciated in a IG regiment.

Ha

Edited by El_Jairo

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Wounds do often feel either a little too expensive or just less interesting/useful compared to other talents,however I would suggest getting more anyway. 9 wounds on a character with that much experience is pretty bad.
You should see if your GM would be willing to let you start with a Rosarius instead of the refractor field. It is the ministorum specific force field and priests in the guard army in 40k come with them.

 

I would also suggest getting toughness up into the 50s. The extra damage soak is really good and when you eventually get true grit it will benefit that as well.

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It is a good build.

 

I do think that parry +10 should make its way into your build. Consider Step Aside for your wish list as it gives you an extra parry (or dodge) each turn - maybe more important than whirlwind of death and combat master, really depends on whether you are offensive of defensive. If you drop whirlwind you can also consider dropping the +5 perception and inescapable attack (inescapable attack is very good, but you are also paying a lot for it).

 

Getting more wounds is also a good idea, especially since you only pay 200 xp.

 

Another talent for your wish list should be Counter Attack.

Edited by Alox

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@Alox many thanks for your feedback.

Funny that you mention counter attack. I used to have that talent because I liked the fact that you can gain an attack out of the normal sequence. Yet, this is rather uncertain in getting a hit at - 20 WS, sure you get the +10 for standard attack but you need to make a successful parry to begin with.

So that is why I dropped it in favour of more reliability in Swift attack combined with Blademaster.

You are right about the cost attached to it but perception is a very important characteristic stat anyway. So I don't consider it a complete investment towards inescapable attack.

The point about Combat Master and Whirlwind of Death is valid. These are pretty situational and I haven't encountered a situation when this would be important, yet.

From background perspective, this does seem to fit and I like to play his personality as aggressive. Being a priest and having the divination of "violence solves anything" ;)

But I like the idea of taking in account all the costs for each talent, together with a score for effect, situation and fluff fit. I might be able to math-hammer the priorities

Only thing I find difficult to get a grip on is how many wounds is reasonably safe?

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Don't math-hammer it too much, a good role play reason to get a talent is many times more fun imo.

 

Wounds is something that you need more and more of as the game progress. 9 wounds is beginner level, so at 9000 xp you should have a couple more. How much? Not sure. :-)

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Ok, so if I feel like 11 is a holy number for wounds, I should basically go for it.

I think I have a basic good build. I only 'need' a good quality shield and parry +10 and the rest is less of importance for combat effectiveness.

Sure True Grit and T at 50 are very effective too but quite expensive: True Grit at 600xp and T 52 for 750xp. Together a whopping 1350 xp.

I guess I rather pick 2x sound constitution for 400xp, get parry +10 for another 400xp and have about 500xp to play around with peer or some further skills boosts. As I'm out of cheap characteristic boosts, I rather focus on some essential talents and skills first.
Then I should prioritise WS if I get into melee a lot and T if I don't because it makes me survive longer to get into melee :P
BTW, is S worth investing in? I feel as a characteristic it is a little undervalued. Sure as melee fighter it adds (some) damage and I am more prone to being grappled, so I shouldn't completely disregard it. But since I have a bionic left arm, I might as well try to get our Ad Mech boy to fix a good quality one for a S boost, right? And this would also increase the damage if I wield my chainsword with it, right?

I feel my character now will learn more about the politic ways as in the Inquisition it isn't possible to simply kill the enemy of the God-Emperor. Apparently you have to take into account the opinions of all stakeholders and not only what Imperial Creed says about a subject. Ad Mech, Noble Families (corrupt or not), Administratum and what not for stupid organisations who don't care as much for living by the God-Emperor's word.  :angry:

:lol: lol

The secret ambition of my character is to become a Saint by spending his life in servitude of the Emperor (and KILLING FILTHY HERETICS).

Sadly there are too many cool talents I want to pick, like Purity of Hatred, Deny the Witch (just the name), Jaded (just because), Crushing Blow (yay for more damage!) and hatred for all enemies of the God-Emperor (but I think I will concentrate on 'just' the heretics as I can role-play that about anything is heresy :lol:)

Edited by El_Jairo

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Okay, I'm back a year later. We are currently operating in a sector of the Emperium that has been cut off because of heavy Warp-storms. We have been sent in with a small fleet of Imperial Navy to hunt down a Heretic that our Inquisitor has a beef with; and hasn't been able to get a hold off.

My character hasn't changed much: he gained another 1000xp and has chosen to pick up the +10 Parry (400), Peer (Imperial Navy) (200) because I believe it will enable our mission here I believe and Linguistics (Cell Cant) (200) because we to hide what we are saying while around other people or in combat.

So I have regretted not taking any additional wounds, as it is clear now that I am lacking those. I had to burn faith after falling down a ladder rather hard and being set on fire afterwards. By the blessing of the Empurrah I only lost 1 Toughness permenantly in the burning process.

Now I come to you with a question regarding survivability. I have noticed that I could upgrade my Toughness to 51 for 750 xp, which is less then buying 4 extra wounds (800xp). As one extra toughness reduces all incoming damage by 1 point, it is on par in damage soaking after 4 hits. The question is of course, will my character survive 4 hits all together ;-). With only 9 wounds, this might prove tricky. As long as no armour piercing is used the damage taken is reduced per hit...

This analysis makes me think I need to take extra wounds ASAP. What are the other survival (or melee) things my character needs?
Is Catfall worth it, just for the damage reduction of falling? I do realise now that Acrobatics is a cheap skill to me. Although I only have 33 Ag, could it be useful to tumble around in combat?

I would like to know your opinion of what talents are worth taking. As general talents that are good to have. I have ruled out Frenzy as I lack any Aptitudes for Battle Rage, although Flagellant does seem nice and has nice synergy.

What I am considering now are:Some Sound constitution (2-3, 400-600), Jaded (300), One on One (450) or Crushing Blow (400), Quick Draw and maybe Takedown (200).

For more investigative usefulness I want Face in a Crowd (300) but I don't know what else to take, other than boosting Fellowship to 46 (500). Boosting Fellowship seems less expensive that individually boosting the skills, Charm (300), Command (400), Deceive (300) and Inquiry (300). Sure you only gain +5 in general instead of +10 to a specific skill but it is applied to all 4 skills.
I would also like to gain Forbidden Lore (Deamons) (150) just because it is fluffy and it comes at a discount.

Zariel 2.0 2017-05-20.xls

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Hi there,

Just a quick question: is True Grit worth it to be saved without needing to burn Fate Points or are you better off with the Tier 1 defensive skills: Iron Jaw and Die Hard?

For context, I boosted Toughness to 51 and WP to 52.

We are about to face a Nurgle Marine, so I want to increase the tankiness of my character, as he is the only Melee capable one and has now 15 HP.

For more context of the character build see attachment, this is before a 2100 XP increase (of which I have invested 600 xp (from GQ bionic Leg)into Hammer Blow, to be able to put down an enemy once I get in contact).

Zariel 3.0 2018-01-25.xls

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On ‎28‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 9:40 PM, El_Jairo said:

Hi there,

Just a quick question: is True Grit worth it to be saved without needing to burn Fate Points or are you better off with the Tier 1 defensive skills: Iron Jaw and Die Hard?

For context, I boosted Toughness to 51 and WP to 52.

We are about to face a Nurgle Marine, so I want to increase the tankiness of my character, as he is the only Melee capable one and has now 15 HP.

For more context of the character build see attachment, this is before a 2100 XP increase (of which I have invested 600 xp (from GQ bionic Leg)into Hammer Blow, to be able to put down an enemy once I get in contact).

Zariel 3.0 2018-01-25.xls

Sorry for the delayed response!

True Grit is....interesting. It means you should progress through the criticals table a lot slower, which should avoid death, but it does mean you rack up a lot of mid-to-low level criticals as you get battered. More importantly, -5 to criticals is nice but not that big a deal compared to the quantity of damage you may take from legion weapons.

It's still probably more use than Iron Jaw (specifically for stunning) and Die Hard (specifically for blood loss) unless you have a reason to expect to be hit with those conditions a lot.

Hammer Blow is a talent to be treated with caution. By which I mean; it's amazing, but it specifically works with All-Out-Attacks, which means you need to be very confident you're going to incapacitate your foe as the return attack has nothing to stop it (especially if you don't have a friend to fight in melee alongside you!)

 

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