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Maelora

Savage Species... and what comes next

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There's always the chance that its talents have nothing to do with Melee, and instead use skills it doesn't get as career skills. It's happened before, and it'll likely happen again.

 

:(

 

Good point.  I'm sure it works just fine by RAW, but I have a rather draconian house rule (no out of career specs allowed) that makes some careers more desirable to my players than others.

 

Entirely my 'fault' yes, but I feel that Specs should line up better with the careers personally anyway. Some Specs seem to be like Prestige Classes from D&D3rd, essentially intended to be used for other careers.  

 

I'm always interested in the Devs reasons for certain things, because I find some of them odd.

Edited by Maelora

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I feel the entire FaD line is designed around multi spec and therefore high XP characters, 1 Specialisation is no longer enough!

 

Yes, I agree.  But my rules at least ensure characters grow outwards instead of upwards, they end up with many strings to their bows instead of the hyper-specialisation that is usual for games like D&D and Pathfinder.

 

Personally I think this makes them a bit more like movie characters, who are rarely one-trick ponies. It's a bit like the Saga rule that prevents you from multi-classing after level 10.

 

YMMV of course.

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I feel the entire FaD line is designed around multi spec and therefore high XP characters, 1 Specialisation is no longer enough!

 

Yes, I agree.  But my rules at least ensure characters grow outwards instead of upwards, they end up with many strings to their bows instead of the hyper-specialisation that is usual for games like D&D and Pathfinder.

 

Personally I think this makes them a bit more like movie characters, who are rarely one-trick ponies. It's a bit like the Saga rule that prevents you from multi-classing after level 10.

 

YMMV of course.

I personally think that having the option to take out of career specializations would encourage more broad concepts while restricting such choices is more likely to lead to hyper-specialization.

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Ranged wpn: three hunting rifles, night sister energy bow, compound bow with several specialty arrows, air rifle and net gun

Melee: knife, poleaxe, vibro-spear, energy Lance, Nani-dagger, vitro-machete.

Armor: layered beast armor, beast hide, chitin, survivalist armor

 

What's unique about the knife here, as opposed to the combat knife and vibroknife in the CRB?

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The knife is an explorer's knife that adds a boost die to survival checks and has the vicious 1. The compound bow and arrows aren't just a reprint from suns of fortune. Arrows are explosive, incendiary, stun, and net - Star Wars Hawkeye, anyone? Compound bow has vicious 2, pierce 1, cumbersome 3, and limited ammo 1.

In reference to the concern over Executioner amplifying melee: the spec amplifies both melee and ranged but has two talents that are melee or range centric - (Terrifying Kill and Hunter's Quarry, respectively). All other talents are not melee/range specific except for the exclusion of Gunnery checks. This spec will help any melee or ranged fighter that wants to deal more damage (Deathblow, extra boost dice from quick strike, gain advantages from Marked for Death and Essential Kill, which can also grant triumphs) or increase crit chance (+30 from lethal blows).

Edited by jshlouie

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But Melee talents don't always mean Lightsaber Talents :( just ask that Marauder thread

 

Sadly true.

 

I'm a bit surprised, considering how iconic Lightsabers are in the movies, how they are tucked away here in a specific Spec.  The net result of that is very few Lightsaber characters at my table, which I guess is okay, but it's another thing that makes it seem a bit less Star Wars-y (unintended here; our game is plenty un-Star-Wars-y in other ways).

 

It does play in to Donovan's suggestion that Lightsabers are like high-end magic weapons in a fantasy game, the equivalent of Holy Avengers or Vorpal Blades. There's no such thing as a 'standard' lightsaber for us, any one that appears now is a legendary weapon, fully tricked-out and with a lengthy backstory. The only one we've seen in our game was Ben's 2nd saber, given to the PC as a parting gift.

 

 

I think the current approach keeps lightsabres as iconic. I think the real change is that it doesn't make every Force user a lightsabre wielding Jedi. Which keeps with the era the game is designed around. After all we only see Luke use his lightsabre a handful of times. 

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I think the current approach keeps lightsabres as iconic. I think the real change is that it doesn't make every Force user a lightsabre wielding Jedi. Which keeps with the era the game is designed around. After all we only see Luke use his lightsabre a handful of times. 

 

 

Oh I get that, and that's not a bad thing.

 

But the players have certain expectations, and that confounds it. 

 

I'm happy to absorb that; we have an entire Jedi faction, and very few of the ones the players have fought have been armed with lightsabers.  They are not ubiquitous in this game as they are in others.   

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But Melee talents don't always mean Lightsaber Talents :( just ask that Marauder thread

 

Sadly true.

 

I'm a bit surprised, considering how iconic Lightsabers are in the movies, how they are tucked away here in a specific Spec.  The net result of that is very few Lightsaber characters at my table, which I guess is okay, but it's another thing that makes it seem a bit less Star Wars-y (unintended here; our game is plenty un-Star-Wars-y in other ways).

 

It does play in to Donovan's suggestion that Lightsabers are like high-end magic weapons in a fantasy game, the equivalent of Holy Avengers or Vorpal Blades. There's no such thing as a 'standard' lightsaber for us, any one that appears now is a legendary weapon, fully tricked-out and with a lengthy backstory. The only one we've seen in our game was Ben's 2nd saber, given to the PC as a parting gift.

 

I think the current approach keeps lightsabres as iconic. I think the real change is that it doesn't make every Force user a lightsabre wielding Jedi. Which keeps with the era the game is designed around. After all we only see Luke use his lightsabre a handful of times.

If you include the comics, we see Luke use his light saber all the time. Even on screen, how many personal combat scenes was Luke in during Episodes V and VI where he didn't use his lightsaber?

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But Melee talents don't always mean Lightsaber Talents :( just ask that Marauder thread

 

Sadly true.

 

I'm a bit surprised, considering how iconic Lightsabers are in the movies, how they are tucked away here in a specific Spec.  The net result of that is very few Lightsaber characters at my table, which I guess is okay, but it's another thing that makes it seem a bit less Star Wars-y (unintended here; our game is plenty un-Star-Wars-y in other ways).

 

It does play in to Donovan's suggestion that Lightsabers are like high-end magic weapons in a fantasy game, the equivalent of Holy Avengers or Vorpal Blades. There's no such thing as a 'standard' lightsaber for us, any one that appears now is a legendary weapon, fully tricked-out and with a lengthy backstory. The only one we've seen in our game was Ben's 2nd saber, given to the PC as a parting gift.

 

I think the current approach keeps lightsabres as iconic. I think the real change is that it doesn't make every Force user a lightsabre wielding Jedi. Which keeps with the era the game is designed around. After all we only see Luke use his lightsabre a handful of times.

If you include the comics, we see Luke use his light saber all the time. Even on screen, how many personal combat scenes was Luke in during Episodes V and VI where he didn't use his lightsaber?

 

 

On screen he uses it about 5 to 6 times between two movies. Which is a lot less than Anakin and Obi Wan from the PT. Hell Qui Gon gets about 5 to 6 uses of his lightsabre in one movie before he's killed. TFA is on par with Luke more so than the PT so they seem to keep to the idea that lightsabre combat isn't as frequent as it was in the days of yore with Finn using it twice and Rey using it once. 

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But Melee talents don't always mean Lightsaber Talents :( just ask that Marauder thread

 

Sadly true.

 

I'm a bit surprised, considering how iconic Lightsabers are in the movies, how they are tucked away here in a specific Spec.  The net result of that is very few Lightsaber characters at my table, which I guess is okay, but it's another thing that makes it seem a bit less Star Wars-y (unintended here; our game is plenty un-Star-Wars-y in other ways).

 

It does play in to Donovan's suggestion that Lightsabers are like high-end magic weapons in a fantasy game, the equivalent of Holy Avengers or Vorpal Blades. There's no such thing as a 'standard' lightsaber for us, any one that appears now is a legendary weapon, fully tricked-out and with a lengthy backstory. The only one we've seen in our game was Ben's 2nd saber, given to the PC as a parting gift.

 

I think the current approach keeps lightsabres as iconic. I think the real change is that it doesn't make every Force user a lightsabre wielding Jedi. Which keeps with the era the game is designed around. After all we only see Luke use his lightsabre a handful of times.

If you include the comics, we see Luke use his light saber all the time. Even on screen, how many personal combat scenes was Luke in during Episodes V and VI where he didn't use his lightsaber?

 

On screen he uses it about 5 to 6 times between two movies. Which is a lot less than Anakin and Obi Wan from the PT. Hell Qui Gon gets about 5 to 6 uses of his lightsabre in one movie before he's killed. TFA is on par with Luke more so than the PT so they seem to keep to the idea that lightsabre combat isn't as frequent as it was in the days of yore with Finn using it twice and Rey using it once.

So, again, in Episodes V and VI, how many personal (non-vehicle) combats did Luke participate in without using his lightsaber? The only one I can think of is loosing a few shots at Boba Fett on Bespin and the fight against the Rancor.

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@EliasWindrider:

Ranged wpn: night sister energy bow - Dmg 8, crit 2, Med range, Pierce 4, Unweildy 3, Vicious 2
Melee: energy Lance (Mon calamari) - +3 dmg, 2 crit, cumbersome 3 when dismounted, pierce 3, can use steed's brawn instead of your own
Armor: survivalist armor - soak 1, encumbrance 3, 2 hp, and increases character's encumbrance threshold by 1
Gear: modular backpack - a base backpack that increases ET by 2 and +1 for each additional pouch added to max 6 additional pouches

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@Vigil there is no picture of the arc-40b. However it is described as "a lightweight starfghter absolutely packed with weapon systems and sophisticated avionics. Fast and nimble, the 40b is a three position multi-role fighter with an astromech socket." Sil 3 speed 4 handling -1, def fore & aft 1, armor 3, ht thresh 14, ss thresh 8. one pilot and co-pilot, one gunner. two forward mounted light laser cannons, 2fore mounted concussion missile launchers, aft turret-mounted twin light blaster cannons

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So, again, in Episodes V and VI, how many personal (non-vehicle) combats did Luke participate in without using his lightsaber? The only one I can think of is loosing a few shots at Boba Fett on Bespin and the fight against the Rancor.

 

 

In V he uses it twice. In VI he uses it three times. Which I would consider to be rare and not that often. My statement wasn't that he never used it, it was that he used it a handful of times, and I would consider five to six uses between two movies to be a handful of times. More so when compared to the PT in which lightsabre combat was almost the go to thing. Qui Gon matches Luke in one movie. Thus lightsabre combat in the PT was a lot more prevalent than it was in the OT or in the NT.

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I'm curious about the Mind Over Matter talent and what it does. It has a really cool name, which must mean that it has a really cool effect.

That's how logic works, right?

 

Yes yes it does.

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So, again, in Episodes V and VI, how many personal (non-vehicle) combats did Luke participate in without using his lightsaber? The only one I can think of is loosing a few shots at Boba Fett on Bespin and the fight against the Rancor.

 

 

In V he uses it twice. In VI he uses it three times. Which I would consider to be rare and not that often. My statement wasn't that he never used it, it was that he used it a handful of times, and I would consider five to six uses between two movies to be a handful of times. More so when compared to the PT in which lightsabre combat was almost the go to thing. Qui Gon matches Luke in one movie. Thus lightsabre combat in the PT was a lot more prevalent than it was in the OT or in the NT.

 

Yes but that was WAY more likely to be a function of how much difficulty they had filming the lightsaber scenes in ep 4-6 vs how much easier it was with modern CG in ep 1-3.  Movies frequently make decisions for technical reasons and then mold the story to fit rather than the other way around.

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In V he uses it twice. In VI he uses it three times. Which I would consider to be rare and not that often. My statement wasn't that he never used it, it was that he used it a handful of times, and I would consider five to six uses between two movies to be a handful of times. More so when compared to the PT in which lightsabre combat was almost the go to thing. Qui Gon matches Luke in one movie. Thus lightsabre combat in the PT was a lot more prevalent than it was in the OT or in the NT.

 

Yes but that was WAY more likely to be a function of how much difficulty they had filming the lightsaber scenes in ep 4-6 vs how much easier it was with modern CG in ep 1-3.  Movies frequently make decisions for technical reasons and then mold the story to fit rather than the other way around.

 

 

That excuse doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Technology was better for TFA vs the OT and the PT and yet there were not a lot more lightsabre battles. I'm sure technology played a role to some extent (such as switching from blue to green due to blue not showing up as well against the background) but based on how far Lucas was willing to go to invent effects for the OT I find it hard to believe that he had fewer battles because it was harder. 

 

Which doesn't really change my inherent point, that the OT has fewer lightsabre battles and since this game was written to reflect the OT they likely took the lack of lightsabre battles into account when deciding whether or not to give every career the lightsabre skill vs just the lightsabre combat form the skill. Luke has fewer battles and this game seems designed to represent that. Whether it's due to the technology or not it doesn't change what we saw on screen and what FFG decided to emulate. 

Edit: Lucas has proved time and time again that if he truly truly wanted something in the OT he would add it later when the technology made it easier to do. So storywise .....if Lucas had really really really and truly felt that Luke needed more lightsabre combat scenes he would have added them along ALL THE OTHER STUFF HE ADDED TO THE OT BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY JUST DIDN'T MAKE THEM POSSIBLE THE FIRST TIME AROUND!!!!!

 

Not that I'm aggravated or anything about the inability to get blu ray's of the original OT as my childhood insist they be viewed. 

Edited by Kael

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If we look at the art in the Force and Destiny line (and that is the line we're discussing), we see a lot of lightsabers. One of my few issues with FaD is that the art seemed to imply to me that if you weren't slinging a lightsaber, you were doing it wrong. Knight Level Play even defaults to granting a lightsaber as the base and then gives a 9k credit option for those (poor fools) that don't take Option A.

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In V he uses it twice. In VI he uses it three times. Which I would consider to be rare and not that often. My statement wasn't that he never used it, it was that he used it a handful of times, and I would consider five to six uses between two movies to be a handful of times. More so when compared to the PT in which lightsabre combat was almost the go to thing. Qui Gon matches Luke in one movie. Thus lightsabre combat in the PT was a lot more prevalent than it was in the OT or in the NT.

 

Yes but that was WAY more likely to be a function of how much difficulty they had filming the lightsaber scenes in ep 4-6 vs how much easier it was with modern CG in ep 1-3.  Movies frequently make decisions for technical reasons and then mold the story to fit rather than the other way around.

 

 

That excuse doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Technology was better for TFA vs the OT and the PT and yet there were not a lot more lightsabre battles. I'm sure technology played a role to some extent (such as switching from blue to green due to blue not showing up as well against the background) but based on how far Lucas was willing to go to invent effects for the OT I find it hard to believe that he had fewer battles because it was harder. 

 

Which doesn't really change my inherent point, that the OT has fewer lightsabre battles and since this game was written to reflect the OT they likely took the lack of lightsabre battles into account when deciding whether or not to give every career the lightsabre skill vs just the lightsabre combat form the skill. Luke has fewer battles and this game seems designed to represent that. Whether it's due to the technology or not it doesn't change what we saw on screen and what FFG decided to emulate. 

Edit: Lucas has proved time and time again that if he truly truly wanted something in the OT he would add it later when the technology made it easier to do. So storywise .....if Lucas had really really really and truly felt that Luke needed more lightsabre combat scenes he would have added them along ALL THE OTHER STUFF HE ADDED TO THE OT BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY JUST DIDN'T MAKE THEM POSSIBLE THE FIRST TIME AROUND!!!!!

 

Not that I'm aggravated or anything about the inability to get blu ray's of the original OT as my childhood insist they be viewed. 

 

 

Kael, I'd like to first sympathize with your aggravation about the blu-ray ability.

 

Then I'd like to point out that the disappearance of lightsabers from the galaxy was written into Episode IV ("A more elegant weapon from a more civilized age...") so the prevalence of lightsabers in the PT is merely indicative of the dramatic drop in the Jedi's power by the time Star Wars starts.  And not just the Jedi, non-Jedi wielding lightsabers (such as General Grievous) also become a thing of the past since the lightsaber is the Jedi's identifying weapon ("It is the weapon of a Jedi Knight...") and the Empire is so anti-Jedi.

 

Using a lightsaber is a sure way to attract unwanted attention during the Empire Era.  By the time of the New Republic, nobody cared who used lightsabers anymore since there wasn't as much rampant hatred for the Jedi (and there was, in fact, some appreciation for the role they -- well, Luke -- played in overthrowing Palpatine).  This doesn't mean your players shouldn't use them, but there should be just as many consequences for pulling a lightsaber as there should be for openly using the Force.  Even Kanan Jarrus was reluctant to use his lightsaber on Kessel until he knew there was no other way to free the Wookiees.  More often than not, Kanan uses a blaster pistol to maintain his cover.

 

Obi-Wan might have done the same, but since he retreated to hermitude instead of getting involved with the Rebellion we will never know.

 

All quotes attributed to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

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