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Caboose2900

Checking Range with a Target Lock

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Actually, has anyone read the part about MO's in the new FAQ?

Missed Opportunities is part of the Tournament rules, not the FAQ.

 

My bad.

 

But either way I didn't see any mention of being able to ask the opponent for a redo on a missed opportunity.  I think that's a big change in the attitude of the tournament setting and I think it's a good thing.

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I tend to get annoyed at people that do this.. I find it .. to use your word.. "Cheeky".

Most times when I see someone reaching to check I tell them quite obviously that they are well with in TL range.. to continue, to me, is in poor taste.. know your ranges.. know your moves.. will you hit that rock.. maybe.. dial it up and see.. or play a safer move.. check for a TL inside of range two... sorry but you shouldn't be playing.. just my view, no one has to like it.. but I find it tantamount to cheating.. it's obvious.. and if you need to look at the range to see if you need a boost.. well .. you know how I feel.. 

 

OK. blast away.. just remember, we all have our opinions.. not all will be the same.

 

EDIT

Yes I measure from time to time, it is typically at the extreme of range 3 where it is not always easy to determine.. but I'm usually sure it is just in.. happened on 2 games today, as I'm using Bomber missile boats and the TLs are very important.. anything closer than range 3 and I don't even reach for the range stick. 

 

Just so long as you keep that salt to yourself and don't accuse others of cheating or being poor sports when they do it, then it's fine to hold that opinion.

Edited by EvaUnit02

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This was pure laziness and a lack of forward thinking by FFG.

 

Well, no, because in the original game -- before it was changed for tournament play a couple of years ago -- measurement was all very open.  You could, for instance, measure to every ship you wanted, then choose one to TL ... or not, and do something else.

 

The TL measurement cheese is a direct consequence of the "if you attempt a TL, you must take it if you can" change in the tournament rules ... that has since percolated into the actual game rules.

This only reinforces my point. That original way wasn't the best way and so they changed it. Every change they have made in the rule and or the wording has pointed towards its intent being to TL a single ship.

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It's not a loophole. Is a defined step in the process.

No one would ever say " don't bother with that BR template. You can do it". "That 3 turn will fit right between those ships, you can just put it there".

This information is one of the few things that makes TL useful instead of focus.

Actually this kind of thing happens all the time. Moving ships is a very dicey affair. When ships get bumped by players repositioning is approximated. When ships overlap even adding the extra templates to get a more accurate idea is till mostly guess work. Lots of things in the game are done with estimations and player agreement.

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This was pure laziness and a lack of forward thinking by FFG. This situation could have and should have been remedied by FFG. This could have easily been accomplished by having one side of the range ruler blank. When you attempt a TL you simply use the blank side. If you're within range 3 you acquire. You do t have other ranges marked so you can't accidentally on purpose measure distance to other ships or find the specific range to the locked target. This way the TL mechanic still works without the legal cheese which breaks the spirit of the law if not the letter.

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone describe the range ruler design, which was made deliberately double-sided so the Rebel players could measure with Red Lasers while the Imperial players measure with Green Lasers, as lazy.

 

I disagree with that premise entirely. It's that level of attention to detail that makes this such a fantastic game, and was one of the things I geeked out about when I unboxed the core set for the first time.

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That original way wasn't the best way and so they changed it. Every change they have made in the rule and or the wording has pointed towards its intent being to TL a single ship.

 

The second sentence, while I agree with it, does not follow from the first sentence.

 

The rules were not changed because they were "better," they were changed because the game took off in the tournament context, and more competitive players (i.e., tournament players) wanted a bigger advantage over more casual players, so they pushed for -- and got -- less forgiving rules.  (More specifically, rules that rewarded very strong skills in eyeballing measurements.  Not just TLs, but also Boost and Barrel Roll.)

 

The fallout that the same more competitive players would abuse the TL-measurement rules was not only inevitable, it was literally predicted.

 

(And, BTW, the ability to get additional information was not "intended," and Alex never said that it was, despite some claims here.  What he said was, "It's okay to do it, because there's really no way to stop it, practically speaking.")

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That original way wasn't the best way and so they changed it.

The rule was changed for two reasons. One to make the game more competitive, and to stop people from checking the range to every ship on the table. The change being better is debatable and completely subjective.

 

(And, BTW, the ability to get additional information was not "intended," and Alex never said that it was, despite some claims here.  What he said was, "It's okay to do it, because there's really no way to stop it, practically speaking.")

What was originally intended isn't really important. Although I think it was originally intended as a way for a ship with the TL action to gain range information on every ship near it.

But the original intent doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that Alex has said quite clearly that any incidental information gained when checking for a TL is fine.

Also he never actually said that. He said, and I'll quote once more from the email "Simply choosing a target and measuring range to it is fine, no matter what other information might be inadvertently gleaned."  There's nothing in that statement about how's it ok because they can't do anything about it.

 

Maybe it was intended, maybe it's fine because they can't do anything about it.  Either way the rule is quite clear, and if you gain incidental information you're free to use it as you see fit.

Edited by VanorDM

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Information works both ways. If someone checks range for the target lock you can ask them to keep the range ruler down so you can also see the range.

 

Seriously THIS IS NOT WARHAMMER! Premeasuring is actually allowed here. :rolleyes:

 

Heh, odd example to choose. Warhammer (both 40K and Fantasy) have allowed premeasuring for quite some time. X-wing, on the other hand, doesn't allow premeasuring except when an effect that requires range is triggered.

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