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Professor Tanhauser

shooting a XXXX out of a XXXXs hand.

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Necrons rely on gear a lot. Like a ressurection orb for example. Suppose a smart marine wants to shoot a RO out of a nefron lord's hand and destroy it? Any specific rules for something like that? Also suppose in general what if you want to specifically attack a weapon, or other piece of gear the target is carrying? I could see some eldar sniping at a devastator mariner's heavy bolter while thinking "we've had enough of that for now."

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There are rules for targeting in the core rule book, but that is if you want to hit a specific area like the head.  I would say modify those rules but make it very hard to do.  

 

I would be careful about actually destroying weapons outright.  Damage them so they do less damage, are less accurate, fire every other round, that could be interesting.  If it's too easy, then it could become a race of which side destroys the other's weapons first, which is hardly fitting to the setting.  

 

However, to go back to your original example of shooting a Ressurection Orb out of a Necron Lord's hand?  I think that's a brilliant idea.  Give them a big penalty on the hit roll, at least -30, and then have the Lord make a strength check to hold on, with a minus based on how much damage was rolled.  

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First off it's a called shot so it is a -20 penalty at base. Next, you're aiming at a specific object on that part of the arm. If you were aiming to take the shot at the arm then I'd say they would just be on the -20 base and maybe if they score a natural 1 they can hit the orb itself. But because they have specifically chosen to say "I'm aiming for the thing in the hand" and not the arm itself, then we're getting further negative modifiers.

 

Using the size chart from Black Crusade onwards (since it's more helpful and actually gives an example of something that size) I'd say that a resurrection orb counts as size category 1. I've also put category 2 below if needs be.

 

Miniscule (1) (Autoquill, Knife)
Puny (2) (Bolt pistol, Servo-skull)
 
(Comparison, T3 is child size, T4 is human and T5 is actual marine size.)
 
This therefore means on top of the penalty for the called shot you are looking at an additional -30 or a -20 for the shot and this is before you add ranged penalties, conditional modifiers, RoF modifiers etc (which are broken in DW and should really use the improved ones but meh) and this means your test to hit the orb at range is either -40 or -50 with the chance of the shot going completely wide. This determines the hit chance. If they manage to hit it, well we need to deduce whether the attack does anything so that would indeed be a STR or possibly AGI check to maintain hold of or catch the test.
 
In terms of damaging weapons themselves, there's not been many hard and fast rules for how to damage a weapon and what the appropriate modifier would be as unlike systems such as D&D/Pathfinder, weapons don't often have a hardness value however again Black Crusade gives us another gleam of how to do this when it discusses Daemon Weapons:
 
Uncanny Resilience: Regardless of their appearance and apparent construction, daemon weapons are extraordinarily difficult to damage. They count as having a natural armour of 20, and will not be destroyed if used to Parry or are Parried by weapons with Power Fields or similar effects.
- BC Core Rulebook p194
 
Additionally we have an item under the Deathwatch Rulebook also involving weapon damage concerning relic blades which states that it's a percentage chance of causing damage.
- DW Core Rulebook p169
 
I tend to put relics and daemon weapons in the same tier and a resurrection orb is effectively a Necron relic so should follow the same rules if they were thinking of wrecking that. Heavy bolters though and guns, same again in terms of the to hit modifiers but you may want to consider a chart of some description so rolling say a D10 when the weapon is hit. Weapons will have some resilience, perhaps not as much as power armour but some natural armour to protect it. So only a penetrating hit would do it. As a rough idea you might want to try something like the below which I've just bashed together. It will need playtesting and balance so feel free to make up your own.
 
 
 
Unless determined otherwise, weapons have a natural armour of 8. Any damage which exceeds this, roll A D10 on the below and add one for each point of damage in excess of the natural armour. Any damage or destruction persists on the weapon until repaired properly and with the appropriate rites (and correct application of the Omnissiah's blessed hammer!)
 
  • 1 to 5 = Weapon functions normally. Some minor visual damage but all functions normally.
  • 6 to 12 = Weapon damaged, the GM may apply any of the below negative modifiers (items marked with * may be applied multiple times). If more than three results on the damage table have been applied, count this as Weapon Destroyed instead
    • Trigger Damage: Reduce Rate of Fire for Semi and Fully automatic by 1 (or possibly 2) *
    • Sights Damage: Weapon suffers -10 to attack rolls and may not benefit from the Aim action.*
    • Loader Damage: Gun jams, reload time increases by one additional action.
    • Barrel Damage: The force of the projectile is lessened when it leaves the gun. Reduce the weapons damage by 2 ( to a minimum of 1) and it's pen by 1 (to a minimum of 0)*
  • 13 to 15 = The weapon is destroyed and ceases to function for the remainder of the encounter until repaired.
  • 16+ = Weapon explodes. The shot manages to trigger the ammunition to detonate. Resolve the effect as if a frag grenade were to detonate centered on the wielder. The wielder may not dodge. The GM may also wish to apply additional damage or effects based on the ammunition type or other modifications.
Edited by Calgor Grim

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Thanks a lot, calgor grim, that was super helpful. I'd class a RO as maybe servo skull sized. Since it's usually portrayed ar some type of crystal I'd likely make it more fragile than a normal necron. I just like the idea of a smart marine or inquisitor realizing what a RO did and opting to shoot it out of a lord's hand and destroy it. That seems like a cinematic things to do. Can't you magine the ominous necron lord holding it out towards his fallen minions,it starts to pulse with an eldritch glow, then a sharm eyed marine with a stalker bolter raises his gun to his eye, sights the crystal, squeezes off a shot, the RO suddenly shatters in the lord's metal hand and his minions remain down.

I'd say the RO got the benefit if any field the necron lord has but not much armor.

I'm sure that marine would immediately go on that lord's fecal roster, assuming necrons remember anything related to fecal matters, since it's been like 60 milliojn years since any of them took a dump, but still the spirit of the fecal roster would probably live on since the necrons seem really good at holding grudges.

 

Edited by Professor Tanhauser

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I'm sure that marine would immediately go on that lord's fecal roster, assuming necrons remember anything related to fecal matters, since it's been like 60 milliojn years since any of them took a dump, but still the spirit of the fecal roster would probably live on since the necrons seem really good at holding grudges.

 

 

And this is why any good Necron Lord has a Warscythe at the same time :)

 

"What's that? Something that ignores armour...why yes I will go to town on a space marine's face using this and cleave him in half"

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Unless determined otherwise, weapons have a natural armour of 8. Any damage which exceeds this, roll A D10 on the below and add one for each point of damage in excess of the natural armour. Any damage or destruction persists on the weapon until repaired properly and with the appropriate rites (and correct application of the Omnissiah's blessed hammer!)
 
  • 1 to 5 = Weapon functions normally. Some minor visual damage but all functions normally.
  • 6 to 12 = Weapon damaged, the GM may apply any of the below negative modifiers (items marked with * may be applied multiple times). If more than three results on the damage table have been applied, count this as Weapon Destroyed instead
    • Trigger Damage: Reduce Rate of Fire for Semi and Fully automatic by 1 (or possibly 2) *
    • Sights Damage: Weapon suffers -10 to attack rolls and may not benefit from the Aim action.*
    • Loader Damage: Gun jams, reload time increases by one additional action.
    • Barrel Damage: The force of the projectile is lessened when it leaves the gun. Reduce the weapons damage by 2 ( to a minimum of 1) and it's pen by 1 (to a minimum of 0)*
  • 13 to 15 = The weapon is destroyed and ceases to function for the remainder of the encounter until repaired.
  • 16+ = Weapon explodes. The shot manages to trigger the ammunition to detonate. Resolve the effect as if a frag grenade were to detonate centered on the wielder. The wielder may not dodge. The GM may also wish to apply additional damage or effects based on the ammunition type or other modifications.

 

Basically I really like what you worked together, but the damage to weapons seem a bit to much to me. Considering a normal Bolt projectile does a minimum of 10 Pen 4, plus at least 1 damage from the aditional D10, most weapons would be damaged on first hit. Just for the numbers, an average hit would be 19 Pen 4 with a single bolt projectile -> weapon destroyed, only slightly more and it will explode. I know my players, and sure as hell they would stop shooting at the baddies and put high priority on the big weapons. Like, "**** that Chaos Terminator, just shoot his guns and stay out of Melee range". Bigger weapons = less size modifier. Talents eliminate the malus for called shot. Shooting full auto, they will end up with a bonused shot on the weapon and sink in way to many bullets. That means that (at least) the armor rating for the weapon has to be raised based on the size of the weapon or something like that. Otherwise, introducing this rule to my players would be GM suicide. Or I end up aiming at their weapons all the time...

Edited by Avdnm

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Unless determined otherwise, weapons have a natural armour of 8. Any damage which exceeds this, roll A D10 on the below and add one for each point of damage in excess of the natural armour. Any damage or destruction persists on the weapon until repaired properly and with the appropriate rites (and correct application of the Omnissiah's blessed hammer!)
 
  • 1 to 5 = Weapon functions normally. Some minor visual damage but all functions normally.
  • 6 to 12 = Weapon damaged, the GM may apply any of the below negative modifiers (items marked with * may be applied multiple times). If more than three results on the damage table have been applied, count this as Weapon Destroyed instead
    • Trigger Damage: Reduce Rate of Fire for Semi and Fully automatic by 1 (or possibly 2) *
    • Sights Damage: Weapon suffers -10 to attack rolls and may not benefit from the Aim action.*
    • Loader Damage: Gun jams, reload time increases by one additional action.
    • Barrel Damage: The force of the projectile is lessened when it leaves the gun. Reduce the weapons damage by 2 ( to a minimum of 1) and it's pen by 1 (to a minimum of 0)*
  • 13 to 15 = The weapon is destroyed and ceases to function for the remainder of the encounter until repaired.
  • 16+ = Weapon explodes. The shot manages to trigger the ammunition to detonate. Resolve the effect as if a frag grenade were to detonate centered on the wielder. The wielder may not dodge. The GM may also wish to apply additional damage or effects based on the ammunition type or other modifications.

 

Basically I really like what you worked together, but the damage to weapons seem a bit to much to me. Considering a normal Bolt projectile does a minimum of 10 Pen 4, plus at least 1 damage from the aditional D10, most weapons would be damaged on first hit. Just for the numbers, an average hit would be 19 Pen 4 with a single bolt projectile -> weapon destroyed, only slightly more and it will explode. I know my players, and sure as hell they would stop shooting at the baddies and put high priority on the big weapons. Like, "**** that Chaos Terminator, just shoot his guns and stay out of Melee range". Bigger weapons = less size modifier. Talents eliminate the malus for called shot. Shooting full auto, they will end up with a bonused shot on the weapon and sink in way to many bullets. That means that (at least) the armor rating for the weapon has to be raised based on the size of the weapon or something like that. Otherwise, introducing this rule to my players would be GM suicide. Or I end up aiming at their weapons all the time...

 

 

Oh agreed, the numbers were something pulled out of thin air for proof of concept of how such a thing can work and I would never say they should be used as is without some playtesting and some rebalancing. No that was just late weekend, tiredness induced random charts...as I frequently draft under those circumstances! Although remember, if you think it's GM suicide remember the universal laws, what goes around comes around. Any house rule or decision which affects the players should also apply to enemies in the same way, so let them apply the same chance on players.

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This is a great topic but how would it work with items which are already explosive aka a frag grenade. I was in a Rogue Trader campaign where the destruction of explosives carried by me was so frequent that I welded armor plates to my jump pack; I mean with four pistols, reloads, multiple clips of special ammo, and a "battlefield replacement" astartes combat blade where else was I supposed to keep my explosives. I am still convinced that it was all revenge for nearly killing the PC's recruiter during the "you meet in a bar" start; I was playing a rogue seraphim superior that had a wraithbone prosthetic, killed an Inquisitorial kill team less than a Terran week ago, and a zealous belief in her faith to an extant only ever seen in convert,s (that's right, she was converted from the imperial creed) what did he expect me to do?

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This is a great topic but how would it work with items which are already explosive aka a frag grenade. I was in a Rogue Trader campaign where the destruction of explosives carried by me was so frequent that I welded armor plates to my jump pack; I mean with four pistols, reloads, multiple clips of special ammo, and a "battlefield replacement" astartes combat blade where else was I supposed to keep my explosives. I am still convinced that it was all revenge for nearly killing the PC's recruiter during the "you meet in a bar" start; I was playing a rogue seraphim superior that had a wraithbone prosthetic, killed an Inquisitorial kill team less than a Terran week ago, and a zealous belief in her faith to an extant only ever seen in convert,s (that's right, she was converted from the imperial creed) what did he expect me to do?

I'd really like to hear more about this character

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