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VaynMaanen

Outline Of All Current Timing Windows

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One suggestion.

 

Assuming that this will be a "living" document -

 

It is your intention to make modifications based on user suggestions, as well as to add new interactions that may occur in the future

 

I suggest that you add a version number to the top of both documents so that we can know that we have the "latest and greatest".

 

Thanks for your efforts.  They are appreciated.

The positive response definitely motivates me to keep this updated.

I'll be posting an updated version tomorrow with a version number, and will also post a note "in accordance with FAQ version".

Thanks for your suggestion!

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This is a great resource. Thank you for pulling it together.

Can I query section 2, d and f in respect of Conner nets. Reading the order as presented, anyone running over a Conner net as part of their maneuver would receive damage and ion tokens at step 2d, but lose the ion tokens at step 2f. So the ion effect would never impact these ships? It doesn't seem correct, and is not how I have played it.

Can you check and clarify.

Thanks

I'm looking to clarify the Ion token removal step to be "when your ship performed an ionized maneuver". This was the intention of the (if applicable) note, but will be more clear. Thank you for your question!

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Okay, I removed the note that was in error and added version # to both the chart title and on page reference. I will attempt to update the chart as VanMaanen updates the guide.

 

VanMaanen - would you please send me a PM when you update so I can mirror on the Timing Chart? It would make things much more manageable!

 

Two requests (and I apologize if I missed them if they are already there - I just don't see them in the expected places):

1. Describe the nested actions/stress assignments when you have things like PTL and Experimental Interface working together. When are stress tokens assigned? This has always seemed nebulous to me.

 

You may find the Process Chart useful for this one, Paul. By following the steps, you can use the chart to assist you with the timing. I've specifically added Experimental Interface to the box for reference.

 

2. When referring to removal of Ion tokens, explicitly note the confusing cases involved in Conner Nets that are deployed overlapping a not-yet-activated ship. What are the conditions that must be met for the tokens to be removed? I always have to go hunting for the email ruling on that issue, which still seems to be an incomplete explanation of all possible scenarios.

 

I've also gone ahead and added "remove all ion tokens that were received prior to the planning phase" to the "Ionization" step. This should allow (when followed) the correct behavior of ion tokens for Connor Net.

 

You might want to include the 'pregame phase'; Agent Kallus and Adaptability.

 

Speaking at least for the Timing Chart, opening up to Pre-Game and Post-Game phases would include lots of additional space and info (like asteroid setup, card preparation, etc). I tried to keep the timing chart valid for both casual and tournament play, as well as include Epic elements. This chart began as a way to get timing on a round for round basis during play, as the steps for Pregame are outlined in the main rulebook and generally don't have many confusing timing issues. However, if this is something the community would like to see included (kind of a 1 stop shop for everything from opening the box to closing it after play) then I will add them in.

Edited by Kyla

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I may be in the minority here, but I think it would be great to include every name of a card and include it within the timing window the effect occurs if at all possible. That might be a bit troublesome, but as far as looking for a quick, in game answer, it could be beneficial. It is a lot easier to hit the find key and type in "Sensor Jammer" instead of trying to identify the key phrase I need to be looking for, and then finding that.

 

You could even just include the list after the description of that timing window. Example- "Card effects which occur in this timing window- BB8, Sabine (Pilot)..." and so on, and just have one for each window.

 

Basically, I'm saying I'm lazy and you need to do more work for me. If you could shovel that bin of ice cream into my mouth as well when you're done, that would be great.  :lol:

Edited by Kdubb

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Okay, I removed the note that was in error and added version # to both the chart title and on page reference. I will attempt to update the chart as VanMaanen updates the guide.

 

I went out to download your chart (via the link in the OP), and I get the same thing I already had ... i.e. without version #s, fixes, etc.

 

Perhaps you haven't actually posted it to your google drive as of yet?

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You could even just include the list after the description of that timing window. Example- "Card effects which occur in this timing window- BB8, Sabine (Pilot)..." and so on, and just have one for each window.

 

 

I actually considered it! However there are 54 different cards in the game currently that would need to be listed. It would significantly increase the amount of space on the page each box took and would wind up taking more and more space with each new release, so it doesn't quite mesh with the process chart. I am working on a "guidebook" that would list each phase at the top as in the timing chart that also lists each card below with their trigger reference though. 

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I went out to download your chart (via the link in the OP), and I get the same thing I already had ... i.e. without version #s, fixes, etc.

 

Perhaps you haven't actually posted it to your google drive as of yet?

 

 

Odd, I went through and just tested it and it works fine for me. Verify that you are using the one in my post (post #16) and not one from the posts that quote it. Those will link to the old file as I cannot go into them and update the link they have.

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I went out to download your chart (via the link in the OP), and I get the same thing I already had ... i.e. without version #s, fixes, etc.

 

Perhaps you haven't actually posted it to your google drive as of yet?

 

 

Odd, I went through and just tested it and it works fine for me. Verify that you are using the one in my post (post #16) and not one from the posts that quote it. Those will link to the old file as I cannot go into them and update the link they have.

 

 

Yep ... that was the issue ... I was accessing the link in the original post of this thread.  To avoid confusion for those that come late to the party, perhaps Vaynmaanen should remove that link.  I know he was just trying to be helpful, but if he doesn't maintain the link, I think it will just lead to confusion.

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I went out to download your chart (via the link in the OP), and I get the same thing I already had ... i.e. without version #s, fixes, etc.

 

Perhaps you haven't actually posted it to your google drive as of yet?

 

Odd, I went through and just tested it and it works fine for me. Verify that you are using the one in my post (post #16) and not one from the posts that quote it. Those will link to the old file as I cannot go into them and update the link they have.

 

Yep ... that was the issue ... I was accessing the link in the original post of this thread.  To avoid confusion for those that come late to the party, perhaps Vaynmaanen should remove that link.  I know he was just trying to be helpful, but if he doesn't maintain the link, I think it will just lead to confusion.

I'll remove for now, I'm updating the document and will be sending the update to Kyla and we will post both when they are complete.

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I may be in the minority here, but I think it would be great to include every name of a card and include it within the timing window the effect occurs if at all possible. That might be a bit troublesome, but as far as looking for a quick, in game answer, it could be beneficial. It is a lot easier to hit the find key and type in "Sensor Jammer" instead of trying to identify the key phrase I need to be looking for, and then finding that.

 

You could even just include the list after the description of that timing window. Example- "Card effects which occur in this timing window- BB8, Sabine (Pilot)..." and so on, and just have one for each window.

 

Basically, I'm saying I'm lazy and you need to do more work for me. If you could shovel that bin of ice cream into my mouth as well when you're done, that would be great.  :lol:

Done. See the updated document in the OP. I've included every card in the game that resolves specifically in each timing window. Hope this helps!

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Thank you for the positive response everyone! I'll continue to make updates as suggestions and other updates come in.

I am not super familiar with all the Epic rules, so I will be reviewing all that info and add Epic cards/steps to the document for totality.

I will also go through and add spoiler cards too for the VASSAL/proxy players. The way I reformatted the document should make it very easy to identify where each ability fits.

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Looks like a great resource!

 

One note: I think there is an error in the Combat Phase. You have listed (1) Choose Weapon, then (2) Declare target. I don't believe this is the case. In particular, I think that if I have a shot at Biggs with one weapon, I cannot choose a different weapon that cannot target Biggs in order to avoid his pilot ability.

Here's what the FAQ says, p.7:

"If the attacker has more than one weapon available, it must use a weapon that can target Biggs Darklighter, if possible, instead of any other ship at Range 1 of Biggs Darklighter."

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I could be wrong, I don't have the rules to hand, but I think you have the stress from Debris Clouds in the wrong place, I think it's added after the 'after you execute a manoeuvre' trigger point - otherwise Kanan crew could remove it, but I don't think he can.

 

E: re choose weapon then declare target, this is the correct order, it's just that Biggs prevents you choosing a weapon that can't target him over a weapon that can, if you're using that weapon to shoot an ally within range 1 of him.  If you try, he rewinds you back to the Choose Weapon step.  It's a bit odd in terms of RAW, but the intent is clear.

 

So consider the situation, Chiraneau has three ships he could target, and a torpedo that shoots at range 2-3.  Biggs is out of his arc. Jake is at range 1 of biggs, but in range 2 of Chiraneau, in arc.  Tycho is at range 3 in arc, out of range 1 of Biggs.

 

Chiraneau choose weapon: torpedo.  Chiraneau tries to target Jake, and Biggs blocks it.  Chiraneau goes back to choose weapon, he chooses the torp again, this time he can choose to target Tycho, and it succeeds, or he can rewind back to choose weapon AGAIN, and choose to use his primary on Biggs.

 

But yeah, it's a little bit of an odd situation by RAW.  I look at it much the same as attempting to boost and failing - you don't rewind to a different boost action, you get to choose a whole different action all together if you want.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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Awesome work both of you. 

 

I think this would be extremely useful as something to go on the wall at our club for X-Wing night. Would clear up a lot of things.

 

Right at the start, should it be stated that rolling for initiative gives the winning player the choice of who goes first?

 

Thanks again!

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Order of Operations document has been updated.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbdbabPCChhMjRjUkZoOEdmM0k/view?usp=sharing

Looks like a great resource!

 

One note: I think there is an error in the Combat Phase. You have listed (1) Choose Weapon, then (2) Declare target. I don't believe this is the case. In particular, I think that if I have a shot at Biggs with one weapon, I cannot choose a different weapon that cannot target Biggs in order to avoid his pilot ability.

Here's what the FAQ says, p.7:

"If the attacker has more than one weapon available, it must use a weapon that can target Biggs Darklighter, if possible, instead of any other ship at Range 1 of Biggs Darklighter."

The most recent FAQ actually confirms the order on the document is correct, choose weapon, then declare target. In the case of Biggs, the next check would be if the target is valid (Is Biggs a valid target? Is your target within R1 of Biggs?). If the answers to both those questions is yes, you must start the steps over with Biggs as the target.

 

I could be wrong, I don't have the rules to hand, but I think you have the stress from Debris Clouds in the wrong place, I think it's added after the 'after you execute a manoeuvre' trigger point - otherwise Kanan crew could remove it, but I don't think he can.

Funny, FAQ also confirmed this to be true. Never saw the interaction, but that's why keeping a thourough order of operations document helps answer these questions :)

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Thanks for the great work! You might be missing two steps. It's my understanding secondary weapons don't get range bonus dice.

If you are referencing the flow chart,yes it needs a couple updates. I'll try messaging Kyla again to see if qmwe can update the flow chart.

For now the Timing Windows document is up to date and matches the newest FAQ.

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