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Professor Tanhauser

Tyranid vs. Necron?

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OK, can I get a little conceptual aid here? In outer reach it was made clear that the tyranids fight the necrons and that the 'nids had devastated a necron dynasty. My question his 'Why would 'nids bother with necrons?'

First off, necrons aren't biological or organic at all, no 'nids can't eat them. Aldo a lot of necron tomb world's are basically dead so why would 'nids bother to attack them?

I supose 'nids might attack anything that moved, but wouldn't they learn necrons don't have any nutritional value soon enough? Or can 'nids eat 'living metal'? (That's all the @x*#ing galaxy beds, living metal tyranids...)

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Tyriands are kinda like a force of nature. If you are in their way they you will feel it.

Also they don't just need to eat stuff to evolve, just the mere fact that they fight something new can make them learn and improve them self.

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Necrons any day of the week, no contest. NEXT!

 

In the fluff, tyranids actively avoid Necron tomb worlds. To some extent it's because some tomb worlds project null fields which screw with the warp and the hive mind. It makes even the best synapse beasts shudder and think "Maybe not..." It makes synapse beasts unnerved and they will only approach one if there is no other choice. These fields mess with daemons and the hive mind equally. They may consider approaching if there is an appealing organic target on it though like humans, but when you're considering two populated human worlds of one with necrons on it and ones without, you'd take the ones without the vaporising, life destroying robots.

 

What makes 'nids dangerous is that even dead ones can be consumed and their biomatter reformed to make new critters, recycling their dead to once more throw at the living. Gauss weapons say no to that. It's easily capable of flaying the skin from a man or shattering tanks by vaporising the armour so a nid is virtually no contest. Nids cannot adapt to it since gauss weapons work at an atomic level, using immense energy blasts to break down the bonds between atoms in matter and cause it to break down to the point that it becomes nothing more than energy released in various forms. This type of weapon is different to bolts, bullets or slugs (which are solid projectiles which can be resisted) or las rounds which can be reflected since in essence it's a laser and its trying to burn at the skin. Gauss weapons do not do that and they do not pierce or break the skin, they obliterate it and break it apart.

 

It's a losing battle for the nids, they would kill maybe thousands of necrons, have tens of thousands of their own kind permanently vaporised with nought left and they would have nothing to actually gain from it. Living metal has never, in the entire current history of 40k AFAIK, ever been successfully assimilated by Tyranids for their own use and the Necrodermis seems to be resistant to that. Normal imperial metals like plasteel have and this is given, but living necron metal is not normal and has never been fully understood as to how it works or its properties. Anyway, most necron tech phases out back to a tomb when destroyed for repair. This means the hive mind would commit countless numbers of its own and get little to nothing back even if there were something it could work on, it's not stupid by any account. In fact the most organic matter you'd get is by looting a Pariah (which is a converted null, **** you 5e for removing those wonderful units) or flayed ones who are crons that wear the flesh of their enemies.

 

That's not to say a tyranid force would always lose though and yes, in sufficient numbers any army can be victorious. It's like guardsmen, have enough shots at something and one of them will hit. However it would be at massive cost for the bugs and as a result they would really avoid it unless there were no choice and they had superior numbers. The motives for this would purely be self preservation. Necrons wish to obliterate ALL organic life. Tyranids are organic so therefore they will ultimately come into the crosshair of a gauss blaster at some point. If an opportunity arose to strike a powerful blow to this opponent with little or acceptable loss of resources then they would take it. I can't however recall reading that bit saying they took out a Dynasty...

Edited by Calgor Grim

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well,, in the background for necrons in outer reach it said a necron dynasty had been devastated by nids, I was just trying to figure that one out.

The note about a necron dynasty being trashed by the nids was in the story on the subekhar background. They knew little of the nids but knew they had decimated their enemy, the charnovokh dynasty. Made me wonder how that happened. Did the charnovokh have tomb worlds still alive? Or did they foolishly attack the nids? Maybe their destroyers went nuts and attacked the nids because they were alive?

Again I wondered if that 'living metal' thing was literal and the nids we're trying to assimilate it.

Edited by Professor Tanhauser

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Btw, I quit following the wargame long ago. I just got tired of GWs business practices, and the prices on miniatures just got way too high. I'm amazed how much the necrons have been 'fleshed out' (rotfl)from the first edition. I quit around the time the necrons came out originally.

I looked up some necron miniatures recently, the prices were just ridiculous.

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Just as any living being needs trace amounts of metallic elements like iron to function, tyranids probably need some heavier elements to build more sophisticated molecules. I think there were codexes saying that for example carnifex's carapace has titanium in it. Maybe some very sophisticated tyranid organisms, like hive ships, need living metal to live and procreate?

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One of the fun elements in the grimdark of 40k is to take things that everyone knows can't happen, and then make them happen in horrible ways.  

 

Perhaps this Tyranid swarm found a way to assimilate, if only partially, living metal.  Think about the ramifications.  The Tyranids may evolve new life forms that utilize this ability.  Think Lictors that can shape-shift, or hordes that regenerate.  Terrifying stuff.  Imagine how freaked out the Necrons would be: the source of their immortality is now in danger.  They simply cannot allow this Hive Fleet to communicate this ability to the other Hive Fleets, it could lead to the extermination of their race.  Perhaps only a few Necron tomb worlds had working null psi fields, the others having failed over the ages.  The Dynasty awakens to find the majority of their forces...consumed.  Not only must they stop this menace, but they have to make sure no other Dynasties learn of their failure.  

 

The Imperium may not understand at first how the Tyranids got these new abilities, but you can bet the Inquisition turn all their resources to finding out.  (A good source of adventures for a Kill-Team, I would think.)  They also must stop this horrible information from spreading to the other Hive Fleets.  

 

For fun, add a mischevious C'tan that survived the War in Heaven and has been biding his time to take revenge on the Necrons while simultaneously spreading its influence through the biosphere of the Tyranids so he can dominate them and turn them into his living army to sweep the galaxy clean of life.  

 

This would be one of those horrible battles fought only in the shadows, where an entire Crusade is ignorant of the scope of the danger they face.  A kill team might wind up being extremely reluctant allies with the surviving Necrons, unified against a far more terrifying foe, but waiting for the inevitable betrayal...

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Tyranids don't limit their depredations to organic matter- they strip planets down to the bedrock, consuming all useful material, including metal. Metal can be incorporated into 'nid biomorphs in a variety of ways. Earth beavers, for example, have orange teeth because they contain a high concentration of iron to make them harder; it's reasonable to assume that a Hive Fleet that was encountering significant resistance from Space Marines would seek out sources of metal to harden their carapaces against a proven threat.

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Actually I'm curious what are the elements or compounds that Tyranids DON'T use, leaving them on the planet after the invasion.

 Probably what they can't carry away. I mean a hive fleet can only carry so much. Even if they make new hive ships while consuming a planet they can only make so many and carry so much.

As to important materials I wonder if they consume comets and the ice of bodies like europa...

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Actually I'm curious what are the elements or compounds that Tyranids DON'T use, leaving them on the planet after the invasion.

 Probably what they can't carry away. I mean a hive fleet can only carry so much. Even if they make new hive ships while consuming a planet they can only make so many and carry so much.

As to important materials I wonder if they consume comets and the ice of bodies like europa...

 

I would expect that Tyranids could and probably would consume comets they came across and would take as much of Europa as they could. However, since they can apparently strip a normal planet to below oceanic bedrock in under a week, I expect that most comets and similarly sized bodies are like a potato chip - the singular (British or American definition of potato chip) - in relative terms.

The more interesting question to me is whether or not the Hive Fleet could consume a gas giant.

 

Based on what I remember, Tyranids take everything above bedrock, and scrap a fair amount of it away in order to get at other mineral resources, and things like subsurface aquifers, and underground deposits of things like oil. Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

They store anything not being immediately used in massive inflatable/expandable bladders. These bladders when filled beyond a certain point expand beyond the protective carapace, exposing more vulnerable tissues, but behind is raw materials, not internal organs, so the bioship itself isn't significantly more vulnerable.

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Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

 

I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'nids even drain the heat out of a planet's core, leaving it a truly dead world.

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Actually I'm curious what are the elements or compounds that Tyranids DON'T use, leaving them on the planet after the invasion.

 Probably what they can't carry away. I mean a hive fleet can only carry so much. Even if they make new hive ships while consuming a planet they can only make so many and carry so much.

As to important materials I wonder if they consume comets and the ice of bodies like europa...

That would probably be their main source of water, given that it's much easier to get: its not guarded and its not held by powerful force of gravity.

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Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

 

I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'nids even drain the heat out of a planet's core, leaving it a truly dead world.

 

 

That would be tricky, because heat in a planet's core is made by movement of matter and this, in turn, is caused by it's spin, or gravitational or electromagnetic field. If they wanted Terra to loose all her heat they'd have to stop it's spin and/or destroy the Sun. How would they do it? I have no idea, but if that energy could be harnessed, it'd be ginormous in size.

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I have the most recent Codex for Necrons and I got it because of the insanely good writing in The Outer Reach.

 

Nowadays the Crons are beating up the Tyranids for the simple single reason of trespass.  In fact my impression is the new fluff goes so far as to imply that the Necrons are mobilising to destroy the Tyranids because they're ravaging what would otherwise be Necron Empires and the metal fellas don't care for it.  The new map in the codex shows the Charnovohk Dynasty territories right in the way of the encroaching bugs.

 

Here's the fluff:

"744.M41 The Silent King returns from his self-imposed exile having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void.  Realising the threat they pose to the Necrontyr, he sets about stirring worlds to revive..." p44.

 

MR.

Edited by Mazer Rackham

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I quit following the wargame long ago because k don't like a lot of what GW does and the prices of miniatures are just absolutely intolerable. I kinda liked the 40k universe but won't support gw anymore. I was lucky to come across deathwatch at a FLGS and liked it due to good writing and the fast it doesn't need hundreds and hundreds of dollars of obscenely overpriced miniatures to play.

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Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

 

I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'nids even drain the heat out of a planet's core, leaving it a truly dead world.

 

If they can drain a planet's core of energy, then there's nothing stopping them from eating it too.

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I quit following the wargame long ago because k don't like a lot of what GW does and the prices of miniatures are just absolutely intolerable. I kinda liked the 40k universe but won't support gw anymore. I was lucky to come across deathwatch at a FLGS and liked it due to good writing and the fast it doesn't need hundreds and hundreds of dollars of obscenely overpriced miniatures to play.

 

And I don't blame you.  I merely replied to what you asked with something I thought was interesting.

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One of the fun elements in the grimdark of 40k is to take things that everyone knows can't happen, and then make them happen in horrible ways.  

 

Perhaps this Tyranid swarm found a way to assimilate, if only partially, living metal.  Think about the ramifications.  The Tyranids may evolve new life forms that utilize this ability.  Think Lictors that can shape-shift, or hordes that regenerate.  Terrifying stuff.  Imagine how freaked out the Necrons would be: the source of their immortality is now in danger.  They simply cannot allow this Hive Fleet to communicate this ability to the other Hive Fleets, it could lead to the extermination of their race.  Perhaps only a few Necron tomb worlds had working null psi fields, the others having failed over the ages.  The Dynasty awakens to find the majority of their forces...consumed.  Not only must they stop this menace, but they have to make sure no other Dynasties learn of their failure.  

 

The Imperium may not understand at first how the Tyranids got these new abilities, but you can bet the Inquisition turn all their resources to finding out.  (A good source of adventures for a Kill-Team, I would think.)  They also must stop this horrible information from spreading to the other Hive Fleets.  

 

For fun, add a mischevious C'tan that survived the War in Heaven and has been biding his time to take revenge on the Necrons while simultaneously spreading its influence through the biosphere of the Tyranids so he can dominate them and turn them into his living army to sweep the galaxy clean of life.  

 

This would be one of those horrible battles fought only in the shadows, where an entire Crusade is ignorant of the scope of the danger they face.  A kill team might wind up being extremely reluctant allies with the surviving Necrons, unified against a far more terrifying foe, but waiting for the inevitable betrayal...

I may be wrong but the crux of the thread was "given current 40k information, could Tyranids beat and assimilate Necrons?" The answer for that is a definitive no but yes any persons story could go into all kinds of twisted fantasy or pseudo-science. At the same time have the God Emperor wake up from the throne with a massive hang over and actually die tripping over the billion cables around the throne when he breaks his neck!

Such is RPG. Main idea though remains a no using current established material. I use the term established material loosely mind...

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Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

 

I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'nids even drain the heat out of a planet's core, leaving it a truly dead world.

 

If they can drain a planet's core of energy, then there's nothing stopping them from eating it too.

There was a race in a SFRPG, long before the tyranids were invented, that would comeume a planet's biomass ad it's core too. They were "the mechanoids" from the palladium game of the same name. They would comsume a planet's biomass, stripmine and useful elements, then use charges to blow the crust apart to expose the molten core. They'd try a weird space time warping thing that would, if successful, which was like a 5% chance, condense the planet's molten hot core to a crystal about 50' across and use it to power their ship.

 

 

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I quit following the wargame long ago because k don't like a lot of what GW does and the prices of miniatures are just absolutely intolerable. I kinda liked the 40k universe but won't support gw anymore. I was lucky to come across deathwatch at a FLGS and liked it due to good writing and the fast it doesn't need hundreds and hundreds of dollars of obscenely overpriced miniatures to play.

 

And I don't blame you.  I merely replied to what you asked with something I thought was interesting.

 

And I do appreciate your answer.

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Basically, given the time to do a full proper harvest, they probably scrape the planet being harvested down to a much thinner crust around the molten core. When they're done, the planet probably ends up fairly tectonically active.

 

I may be mistaken about this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that 'nids even drain the heat out of a planet's core, leaving it a truly dead world.

 

If they can drain a planet's core of energy, then there's nothing stopping them from eating it too.

 

 

There was a race in a SFRPG, long before the tyranids were invented, that would comeume a planet's biomass ad it's core too. They were "the mechanoids" from the palladium game of the same name. They would comsume a planet's biomass, stripmine and useful elements, then use charges to blow the crust apart to expose the molten core. They'd try a weird space time warping thing that would, if successful, which was like a 5% chance, condense the planet's molten hot core to a crystal about 50' across and use it to power their ship.

So they have to blow up 20 planets to power one ship? On average? They must be hugely hated by everybody in that universe.

 

Still, the point was, there is still a planet left behind after the Tyranids are done eating - therefore, there must be some reason that they do not eat the entire thing. My best explanation is that they cannot eat the molten core of a planet.

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