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Krynn007

New idea, duel pilot cards

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Just a thought I had when I wrote shuttle pilots thread.

What about having duel pilot cards, since they are releasing duel upgrade cards.

For example release a ship that comes with new pilots as usual, but then the other side is the same pilot flying a different ship.

Could that also be a way to beef up other ships?

You could release a new pilot.

John doe in whatever ship that comes with, but on the other side he could also be in a Imperial shuttle, or Ewing or scyk.

(just an example)

Thoughts?

Edited by Krynn007

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A dual pilot card would go wonderfully well with the two sides of the base tile however that is also a limiting factor when you look at how dual upgrades work.

 

For a dual upgrade to work it needs to:

1.  Have the same cost for both sides.

2.  Fill the same upgrade slot.

 

With a dual pilot card I suspect you'd also need to add:

3.  Must have the same PS otherwise how would you know when to deploy the ship.

4.  Have the same upgrades because you couldn't have a ship where the upgrades for one side are not legal on the other.

5.  It must continue to use the same ship/dial although some could have a hard time with this.

 

On point #5 your opponent should know what ships you have in your squadron and while they may not have exactly the pilots they expected the ships should be no surprise.

 

Looking at current pilots I believe these would be the possible choices for such an upgrade:

Nightbeast/Winged Gundark

Backstabber/Dark Curse

Mauler/Scourge

Omega Ace/ZetaLeader

Fel's Wrath/Lt. Lorrir

 

Hobbie/Biggs

IG-88 A/B/C/D  (WOW, just imagine the implications here when any 2 IG-88s are actually valid pairs.)

 

All of those could be dual upgrades in the sense how they are used now.  Simply having two sided Pilot cards is a bit interesting but no different than having two different pilot cards unless both sides have the same cost, PS, and available upgrades.

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Keep in mind the only time the dual face card mechanics of dual upgrade cards have meaningful impact is in tournaments or other formats where squadron lists are "locked in" for multiple games.

... or any time where you have to build your list before seeing your opponent's?

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A dual pilot card would go wonderfully well with the two sides of the base tile however that is also a limiting factor when you look at how dual upgrades work.

 

For a dual upgrade to work it needs to:

1.  Have the same cost for both sides.

2.  Fill the same upgrade slot.

 

With a dual pilot card I suspect you'd also need to add:

3.  Must have the same PS otherwise how would you know when to deploy the ship.

4.  Have the same upgrades because you couldn't have a ship where the upgrades for one side are not legal on the other.

5.  It must continue to use the same ship/dial although some could have a hard time with this.

 

On point #5 your opponent should know what ships you have in your squadron and while they may not have exactly the pilots they expected the ships should be no surprise.

 

Looking at current pilots I believe these would be the possible choices for such an upgrade:

Nightbeast/Winged Gundark

Backstabber/Dark Curse

Mauler/Scourge

Omega Ace/ZetaLeader

Fel's Wrath/Lt. Lorrir

 

Hobbie/Biggs

IG-88 A/B/C/D  (WOW, just imagine the implications here when any 2 IG-88s are actually valid pairs.)

 

All of those could be dual upgrades in the sense how they are used now.  Simply having two sided Pilot cards is a bit interesting but no different than having two different pilot cards unless both sides have the same cost, PS, and available upgrades.

I think you missed part of the OP mate, the TC stated same pilot, different ship not same ship different pilot. Having said that, FFG might be able to save on printing costs going your route for dual pilot cards.

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Not really on topic, but what I seriously wish is that they had used the card backs to include background information on the ships, squadrons, and pilots. Because of this board, I know that Ibtisam is a female MonCal, but that is ALL I know about her. Having a paragraph of background and a picture of Howlrunner, Ello, Talonbane, and so on, to say nothing of settling the gender issue of Echo and Whisper, would be really nice. Backs of generic pilots could have included background on the ship itself, it a particular squadron, and so on.

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Keep in mind the only time the dual face card mechanics of dual upgrade cards have meaningful impact is in tournaments or other formats where squadron lists are "locked in" for multiple games.

... or any time where you have to build your list before seeing your opponent's?

 

Well you could always list tailor at any individual game. However if that is the case I recommend multiple list formats or a scenario so that both players have something to list tailor other than their opponent's list.

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I actually was thinking of something similar to this earlier tonight. But along the lines of, the same pilot being on both sides of the card, and having the same ability, same point cost, same ship even, but DIFFERENT possible upgrades.

So say we had pilot Alpha. Alpha has a bomb, a cannon and a astromech. On the flipside Alpha has a Missile, a turret, and a astromech.

Though having 2 pilots on the same card with the same ability and just different fighters/ships on each side - and thus also different costs, and different upgrade slots (based on each fighter's normal load out).

A good example of this would you get Maarek Steel with either a Tie Defender or a Tie Advanced...or better yet a Missile Boat or Gunboat.

Or Corran Horn in an Xwing, or his E-wing. Same with other pilots.

In this 2nd case you'd have to sell the piltos in a box that has both types of fighters.

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A dual pilot card would go wonderfully well with the two sides of the base tile however that is also a limiting factor when you look at how dual upgrades work.

 

For a dual upgrade to work it needs to:

1.  Have the same cost for both sides.

2.  Fill the same upgrade slot.

 

With a dual pilot card I suspect you'd also need to add:

3.  Must have the same PS otherwise how would you know when to deploy the ship.

4.  Have the same upgrades because you couldn't have a ship where the upgrades for one side are not legal on the other.

5.  It must continue to use the same ship/dial although some could have a hard time with this.

 

On point #5 your opponent should know what ships you have in your squadron and while they may not have exactly the pilots they expected the ships should be no surprise.

 

Looking at current pilots I believe these would be the possible choices for such an upgrade:

Nightbeast/Winged Gundark

Backstabber/Dark Curse

Mauler/Scourge

Omega Ace/ZetaLeader

Fel's Wrath/Lt. Lorrir

 

Hobbie/Biggs

IG-88 A/B/C/D  (WOW, just imagine the implications here when any 2 IG-88s are actually valid pairs.)

 

All of those could be dual upgrades in the sense how they are used now.  Simply having two sided Pilot cards is a bit interesting but no different than having two different pilot cards unless both sides have the same cost, PS, and available upgrades.

I was thinking more in line of something like mareek Steele.

One side he is flying the advanced, the other side the defender

This could easily allow more pilots for other released ships.

Of coarse the tile would be for just the one pilot.

In the tournament structure, this shouldn't change anything now.

You'll still going to have to choose which mareek your going to fly.

When you see your opponents ships and has a defender, and whatever else, won't be confusing or to hard to know what he's flying.

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Tag & Bink?

 

A reversible pilot card would be interesting. As noted, it'd need to be the same PS for deployment (although you could easily make one pilot ability akin to Epsilon Ace or Roark Garnet to counteract this) and have the same slots.

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...

I think you missed part of the OP mate, the TC stated same pilot, different ship not same ship different pilot. Having said that, FFG might be able to save on printing costs going your route for dual pilot cards.

 

 

 

...

I was thinking more in line of something like mareek Steele.

One side he is flying the advanced, the other side the defender

This could easily allow more pilots for other released ships.

Of coarse the tile would be for just the one pilot.

In the tournament structure, this shouldn't change anything now.

You'll still going to have to choose which mareek your going to fly.

When you see your opponents ships and has a defender, and whatever else, won't be confusing or to hard to know what he's flying.

 

 

 

I get the idea that you want the same pilot on both sides of the card but flying a different ship.  The thing is that is no different than just having two completely separate cards because it certainly fails to work with the dual upgrade mechanics.  It could work if you have the same pilot on both sides and in the same ship but with different abilities but that isn't what you think you want to have.

 

Having upgrades, and by extension pilots, printed on both sides of cards could certainly provide more access to things but it quickly fails with the dual upgrade mechanic and having both would be extremely confusing to many.  "What do you mean that I can pick which side of Adaptable I get to use as I set up but I don't get to pick which Maarak I use when I place him in the field of play?"

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Just a thought I had when I wrote shuttle pilots thread.

What about having duel pilot cards, since they are releasing duel upgrade cards.

 

Ah, I see you have played Soontir Fel. Wise but doing so has played right nito my hands, go Wedge Antilles!

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Someone did mention before the idea of having the same pilot on both sides, one as normal and then the other when they suffered an injured pilot crit or when a requirement was reached such as receiving the first damage card.

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Someone did mention before the idea of having the same pilot on both sides, one as normal and then the other when they suffered an injured pilot crit or when a requirement was reached such as receiving the first damage card.

Not quite the same that I was thinking

When I say duel card, it is since it had two sides, but it's not the same as what we have now with adaptability.

I don't see why it was confuse players.

Even if they were different squad pts.

I'll use mareek for example.

We have him in two ships now.

They are not the same squad points because the two ships differ and the cost is adjusted accordingly

So let's say one side has mareek in the advanced for 27 pts.

The other side he is in the defender at 35

And the same goes for his tile.

One side is advanced, the other defender

There wouldn't need to be any special rules or anything.

I wasn't intending on it being like adaptability where you state which each game

You would decide as normal and register your ships in a tournament.

So if you build your squad around mareek in the defender, them you'll just register it as normal.

I think it would be a cool idea when introducing new ships

An Imperial Gunboat for example, may come

With a duel pilot card

John doe in the Gunboat at say 24 pts, and on the other side he could be in a shuttle for 25 pts.

As for dials I guess the pack would only include one, the Gunboat, as most probably already have the dial for whichever ship that pilot shares.

Also if you didn't, that could be another good marketing for ffg.

Don't have a shuttle but you bought the Gunboat, well maybe that duel pilot card may make someone more likely to want to pick up a shuttle now

Edited by Krynn007

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It is confusing because now you have cards with two sides that have to be fixed before going into a tournament or something like that yet because there are other cards with two sides where either side could be used.  If you are stuck using one side for every game then just use one card.

 

Except for the variable use in tournament play there is NO REASON to have dual upgrade card (pilots counting as upgrades here.)  Ok, there is one use and that is simply to save paper by printing two completely unrelated items on both sides of a card.

 

I certainly do like the idea of seeing the same pilot being able to use different ships but a dual card is not going to be the way to do that.

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It is confusing because now you have cards with two sides that have to be fixed before going into a tournament or something like that yet because there are other cards with two sides where either side could be used.  If you are stuck using one side for every game then just use one card.

 

Except for the variable use in tournament play there is NO REASON to have dual upgrade card (pilots counting as upgrades here.)  Ok, there is one use and that is simply to save paper by printing two completely unrelated items on both sides of a card.

 

I certainly do like the idea of seeing the same pilot being able to use different ships but a dual card is not going to be the way to do that.

This is mostly the reason I suggestted the same pilot of the same ship but with different upgrades on the flip side of the card...or different Ability. Like oh I have ability A on one side, or ability b on another.

Or say you have Boba Fett, he wants to run slave one with 3 missiles instead of his cannon and torp...something like that

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It is confusing because now you have cards with two sides that have to be fixed before going into a tournament or something like that yet because there are other cards with two sides where either side could be used.  If you are stuck using one side for every game then just use one card.

 

Except for the variable use in tournament play there is NO REASON to have dual upgrade card (pilots counting as upgrades here.)  Ok, there is one use and that is simply to save paper by printing two completely unrelated items on both sides of a card.

 

I certainly do like the idea of seeing the same pilot being able to use different ships but a dual card is not going to be the way to do that.

This is mostly the reason I suggestted the same pilot of the same ship but with different upgrades on the flip side of the card...or different Ability. Like oh I have ability A on one side, or ability b on another.

Or say you have Boba Fett, he wants to run slave one with 3 missiles instead of his cannon and torp...something like that

 

 

You probably could do dual upgrades as a pilot with two different abilities but everything else about the ship being the same.  I mean if you look at the list I made if there was a 16 point, PS 6 TIE Fighter pilot named Darkstabber who had Dark Curse's ability on one side and Backstabber's ability on the other that WOULD be an acceptable (and perhaps even powerful/useful) dual upgrade/pilot card.  The only thing that changes is the pilot's ability text.  While acceptable I can also see where some may be disappointed as it probably would be a named pilot so you could only use one per squadron.

 

To stay true to how dual upgrades work there really is no way you could have a ship with different upgrade options on both sides because all of those options would need to be paid for during squadron construction.  I mean how do you price the hypothetical dual Boba Fett if one side has three specific missiles and the other has no missiles but a cannon and torpedo slot filled?

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Dual Cards would have worked perfectly with the Hounds Tooth.

 

One side pilot for the YV-666 the other for the Z95 headhunter

 

Also would have worked with the Ghost/Phantom for those that flew both

 

Edit: If they start using the idea, could be good tournament giveaways for the above.

Never mind 4 extra Z-95 Scum pilots. 

Edited by TheJustWiseSage

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Dual Cards would have worked perfectly with the Hounds Tooth.

One side pilot for the YV-666 the other for the Z95 headhunter

Also would have worked with the Ghost/Phantom for those that flew both

Edit: If they start using the idea, could be good tournament giveaways for the above.

Never mind 4 extra Z-95 Scum pilots.

I think it would work.

I still don't think it would be confusing as steveo said.

Obviously and especially if the two sides are different squad pts.

It's not like you show up to a tournament and then get to choose each game which version you would be flying.

I don't think it would change that aspect of it.

You are still going to have to make your list prior and register

And if it is confusing, having a simple insert added would easily explain the difference/rules on a duel pilot card.

Just as they did with adaptability, using modifications, bombs, etc etc

"When using a duel pilot card, you decide which ship the pilot is flying when designing your list.

This is permanent during competitive competitions, and is treated as a single card after you choose which ship the pilot is flying when designing your list "

Wording maybe off but I'm sure the great minds at FFG could word it better

Also if you were in a tournament it wouldn't work out if your first game you decide to fly greedo In a u boat for 24 pts, next game you want him to fly a firespray at 36 pts as now you're likely to be over your squad pts.

Seeing as you can't change your list from game to game in a tournament, the rest of the squad has to stay the same

Having both sides different squad pts would also mean that if you use side A and it costs 21 pts and your list is at 100 pts. Next game if you tried to switch him out to Side B but costs 30 pts, well your squad would be 9 pts over

And same goes the other way, except your squad would be at 91 pts, which I think is a bit excessive for an initiative bid.

That's almost a tie, or Z95, or some nice upgrades which would likely give you a bigger handicap than a 98-99 initiative bid.

Again a simple rule insert would easily clear up any confusion. Just as they do every time they add new upgrades/abilities/etc that are not covered in the core rule book

Edited by Krynn007

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This could also work for multi-faction ship (I'm lookin' at scum here).

I think Boba Fet set the precedent for multi-faction ships where the only thing that is retained is the ship stats upgrades actions pilot skill and squadron point is the same but the pilot ability is different.

 

Now multi ship pilots keep the same pilot ability and pilot skill 

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This could also work for multi-faction ship (I'm lookin' at scum here).

I think Boba Fet set the precedent for multi-faction ships where the only thing that is retained is the ship stats upgrades actions pilot skill and squadron point is the same but the pilot ability is different.

Now multi ship pilots keep the same pilot ability and pilot skill

This guy gets it lol

Maybe they could do a cross faction thing, but first I think it be easier for ffg and the player base to keep it same faction.

Such as mareek for example.

He could have made a good duel pilot card with his advanced and defender

Edited by Krynn007

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