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Denz2

A COMPLETE TURN AROUND !!!!!!

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IT STARTED LIKE THIS.......

I over the years have played so many different games that my mind is at bursting point with rules, settings and great memories but out of them all ......

 

I LOVE THE WARHAMMER SETTING ( and the WH40K Setting - but that is for a different forum on a different day !!!). My love of it starts eighteen years ago when I first started table top and roleplaying and it continues to this day.

I have the original Games Workshop Edition (and all its supplements), the Hogshead Reprint and all the books relating to the Black Industries Edition. I have also played the card games, computer games, tabletop games BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!! So I suppose what I am saying is that I know a little about it all.

The setting is an intelligent and engrossing work of developing non-fiction which has something for everyone and is something that everyone can contribute to and take part in by way of one format or another. It is an accessable setting .... and that is what I thing FFG are trying to do with this new edition.

Games Workshop sells models to gamers like crack to an addict !!!! and if they can pull more people into that market then all the better for them ... and one way to do it is through the RPG back door. If they can pull gamers into there business by doing it through WFRP then they will.

The new edition looks shiney, clean and well presented. It appears adorned with new art, glossey cards and custom dice - It screams out amongst the other products on the shelfs LOOK AT ME !!!! and NO I AM NOT DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS !!!

I am all for pulling more people into gaming ( and diverting them for D&D) but I fear that my favourite RPG is going to suffer at the hands of FFG in the name of doing so.

I have images of a dumbed down setting ( far from grim and perilous but bright and heroic) , a product line which requires purchase after purchase to keep up with (Box after Box of shiney cards and dice) a rules system which takes away all the stuff we love - No more percentage rolls, No more Critical Hits and finally a system which reduces the openness of the setting - Sorry you cannot be a Halfing Bounty Hounter I have not got the required cards and dice -

I of course will buy the new edition and hope to be proved wrong but I have a feeling I wont be.

FOLLOWED BY THIS.......


I must admit that I have calmed down some after an initial rant (See-MY TWO PENCE WORTH OF COMMENT !!!) - I am starting to like what I see from the previews

 

The dice system looks fun and different

The party sheets give the group focus

The careers and advancement system looks flexiable enough

The product quality looks great

I am still resistant because of the overall change to an established and successful system - but I love the Warhammer Setting and I am willing to give this a try - I might enough go as far to say I am looking forward to it.

DW

THEN THIS..........

I am extremely excited about the forthcoming edition of WFRP - The system and presentation ( the art looks great !!) have me chomping at the bit and I cannot wait to get my grubby snotling claws on it.

AND NOW FINALLY -

I have recieved my boxed set and must say that I am blown away.

The presentation of the rules and set contents are amazing - The system is fun and flexiable  and the whole product captures the essence of the warhammer world brillantly - I got my set for £65 from leisure games in the UK and believe it to be worth every penny. I believe that FFG have done themseleves, WFRP and roleplaying as a whole proud with this one.

If I was to have one criticism it would be that I can foresee lots of expansions forthcoming to fill the gaps seductivly found in the core set e.g the rest of the wizard schools, the rest of the deity priest careers, the full bestiary Etc Etc - But FFG are a business and need to make there money so I understand it -

In a nut shell - WELL DONE FFG - Any way enough said I have Skaven to kill !!!!!!!


 

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Now this a grat opinion. A player that had many not so good thoughts about the new edition and then when He has they all don't count. He is a satysfied player.  :)

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Ok, I have the box and I am underwhelmed in every way. 

The "books" are thin and soft-backed and lack the detail of their 2nd Edition equivalents. 

The cards are too fiddly and take up too much space, not to mention that some "actions" have only one card and must either be shared or limited to one character only.

The stand-ups have no repeats, so you have to proxy (not a big issue) and reinforce the weakness of the blob-combat system (makes dueling nigh-impossible).

The number of professions is less than that of the original Main book and though it has 3 Colleges (of 8), it only has ONE career card for apprentices, so you'd have to share that as well (and since they have those stupid "sockets"...).

The combat system is abstracted to the point of idiocy, with the cards' "refresh times" being interesting, but unrealistic considering the level of abstraction.

Most of the skills are combat-based and thus the game lends itself to a more aggressive outcome (something the previous edition discouraged).

Numerous typos and omissions, coupled with questionable organization make the books a little obnoxious to peruse and less than the advertised "highest quality".

-Having had a chance to play it, I must say that it has potential to be enjoyable, but it will never best the previous edition.  It doesn't speed things up, it doesn't provide a deeper experience, and it doesn't feel like Warhammer at all.  There is no grit, no grim, no gloom.  It's too heroic to be Warhammer.  Is it still fun?  Any game can be fun IF it's played with the right group, but this one needs work and is a victim of OVER-SIMPLIFICATION.  A trend I hope that they don't perpetuate in future releases.

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ffgfan said:

Now this a grat opinion. A player that had many not so good thoughts about the new edition and then when He has they all don't count. He is a satysfied player.  :)

 

...or maybe they put an enchantment spell in all the warhammer boxesgran_risa.gif, which makes us go "oh shiny and pretty, my preciousbabeo.gif"

Now have you ever thought about that? have you? preocupado.gif

 

when I am opening mine I will wave my rod of dispelling first, just to be suregui%C3%B1o.gif

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Mal Reynolds said:

ffgfan said:

 

Now this a grat opinion. A player that had many not so good thoughts about the new edition and then when He has they all don't count. He is a satysfied player.  :)

 

 

 

...or maybe they put an enchantment spell in all the warhammer boxesgran_risa.gif, which makes us go "oh shiny and pretty, my preciousbabeo.gif"

Now have you ever thought about that? have you? preocupado.gif

 

when I am opening mine I will wave my rod of dispelling first, just to be suregui%C3%B1o.gif

 

My box come with Lord Borak the Despolier in it waiting to ambush me, let me tell you, that was one hell of a fight. 

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what really slays me is that people really are married to the percentile system.  I have to say that it is one of the most boring systems you can possibly have in the game.  I disliked it in both editions of Warhammer.   I didn't even find it implemented well.  A creature with a 75% WS being stopped by a halfling blocking with a 20% WS.  Gah. 

There is nothing to like about the percentile system, other than it's understandable and it's a workhorse.  So I never understood why anybody would care if they ditched it.  The setting is this game's strength.  All they had to do is keep criticals in (which they did) and dangerous magic (which they did) and it's still Warhammer.

Just my $0.02.  =)

 

 

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Sarim Rune said:

what really slays me is that people really are married to the percentile system.  I have to say that it is one of the most boring systems you can possibly have in the game.  I disliked it in both editions of Warhammer.   I didn't even find it implemented well.  A creature with a 75% WS being stopped by a halfling blocking with a 20% WS.  Gah. 

There is nothing to like about the percentile system, other than it's understandable and it's a workhorse.  So I never understood why anybody would care if they ditched it.  The setting is this game's strength.  All they had to do is keep criticals in (which they did) and dangerous magic (which they did) and it's still Warhammer.

Just my $0.02.  =)

 

 

Could not agree with you more!

The percentile system is lame.  There, I said it.  It's also only a hair away from really being a d20 system:  The attributes are only increased in 5% increments, so the only thing stopping you is +/- 2% in starting attributes.

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I  must admit that I had my turn around as well yesterday, I got the box ser mainly cus I'm, well, addicted to anything warhammer fanstasy roleplay, it being the 2nd game I ever played in its original "back in the 80's" version a long, long time ago. Now I was sceptic, the book has a severe lack of background material, but re reading it I found that it was actually the perfect amount for my group of complete newbs, I'm the only one in it that has played before, there is a tabletop wargamer who knows the setting, and one that played D&D waaayy back 10 years ago. But explaining the rules took about 5 min character creation about an hour for all of them and we where off ready to play. Did the system change help this, I doubt it, did it hinder it, no not really, it was a mechanic and the game is what you make of it, now that said it did work very well. Combat flowed smoothly and quickly, critical where suffered almost of the bat, our mage over channeled and almost blew up and the dwarf failed at even getting in the fight ending up in a freezing puddle of water, so all in all, lots of good fun and pythonian surrealism, I loved it. Splitting the books was awesome as well it means that our wizard

Now I do want to mention this again, there isn't enough background, the setting description is just too thin and flimsy and at this price it could have done with a 30 page setting booklet, that would have been a good addition to the box making it more valuable to us as players and game masters.Also there is a lack of some cards and I would have liked to have seen more careers in the deck to begin with, where is the noble and the squire and that I have to pay extra to get the ratcatcher when you called the intro story "A ratcatchers tale" bad for :P.

So all in all I'm pretty happy, but I would have liked more setting seems like the box relies on me having my V2 books here, and I don't, for that and that the adventures tool kit should just have been included in the box along with a booklet with the "setting" flavour text from the WHFB 7th ed.

 

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Sinister said:

Mal Reynolds said:

 

ffgfan said:

 

Now this a grat opinion. A player that had many not so good thoughts about the new edition and then when He has they all don't count. He is a satysfied player.  :)

 

 

 

...or maybe they put an enchantment spell in all the warhammer boxesgran_risa.gif, which makes us go "oh shiny and pretty, my preciousbabeo.gif"

Now have you ever thought about that? have you? preocupado.gif

 

when I am opening mine I will wave my rod of dispelling first, just to be suregui%C3%B1o.gif

 

 

 

My box come with Lord Borak the Despolier in it waiting to ambush me, let me tell you, that was one hell of a fight. 

Oh dear, now I am real worried, why would FFG do such a thing? I better have my tome of "realms of sorcery" ready when it arrives. And opened under the magic of light section, and read an invocation or two to drive of such a demon. I pray to sigmar that the 2nd edition light spells is compatible enough to drive away a 3rd edition demon. Or even better let one of my friends open the box....gran_risa.gif

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Mal Reynolds said:

Sinister said:

 

Mal Reynolds said:

 

ffgfan said:

 

Now this a grat opinion. A player that had many not so good thoughts about the new edition and then when He has they all don't count. He is a satysfied player.  :)

 

 

 

...or maybe they put an enchantment spell in all the warhammer boxesgran_risa.gif, which makes us go "oh shiny and pretty, my preciousbabeo.gif"

Now have you ever thought about that? have you? preocupado.gif

 

when I am opening mine I will wave my rod of dispelling first, just to be suregui%C3%B1o.gif

 

 

 

My box come with Lord Borak the Despolier in it waiting to ambush me, let me tell you, that was one hell of a fight. 

 

 

Oh dear, now I am real worried, why would FFG do such a thing? I better have my tome of "realms of sorcery" ready when it arrives. And opened under the magic of light section, and read an invocation or two to drive of such a demon. I pray to sigmar that the 2nd edition light spells is compatible enough to drive away a 3rd edition demon. Or even better let one of my friends open the box....gran_risa.gif

 

I believe that there's a ritual of exorcism in Tome of Salvation. Maybe that could help?

/off-topic

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 As a musician, I see this game as a jazz scale. It's in the GM's hands to make music with it. The more he or she listens and practices that scale, the better the tune or solo. I think FFG have made an excellent scale (not all scales are conducive to making great music)...it's now up to us to kick out the jams. After all, a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools.

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paradiddlebob said:

 As a musician, I see this game as a jazz scale. It's in the GM's hands to make music with it. The more he or she listens and practices that scale, the better the tune or solo. I think FFG have made an excellent scale (not all scales are conducive to making great music)...it's now up to us to kick out the jams. After all, a good craftsman doesn't blame his tools.

Best way of putting it ever.

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