Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Joe Boss Red Seven

These New High Prices...

Recommended Posts

The problem is that consumer perception of inflated prices at brick-and-mortar stores was driving customers away from those stores and to the heavily discounted online retailers for their purchases. That's a problem because no one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc. No one wanders by a game of X-wing being played at Miniature Market and asks questions about it. Amazon.com does not host any X-wing Organized Play events.

Not true. Cool Stuff has brick and mortar stores that hold events AND charged 66% of MSRP in store. Just because the old way of doing business is (predictably) failing does not make it wrong. The world is changing....adapt or die.

Just because someone decided to buy a game store so they would have a place to play with their buddies, it does not follow that they are a 501 ©3 that we should subsidize with paying more "just because". You gotta be a smart business person and alot of these guys simply aren't. (like VanorDM's guy, holding onto a business that doesn't support itself...just stupid.)

Just my 2 cents...

I can only conclude that you didn't read my post. I said "No one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc," and nothing you said contradicts that; I know CSI has a retail operation, and that the prices there are consistent with the online operation.

But what that means is that CSI's online sales subsidize their brick-and-mortar operation. Suggesting that every FLGS should be Coolstuffinc is... I don't even know what to call it.

Edited by Vorpal Sword

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

that's not entirely true, in fact my own experience is different. I became interested in x-wing online, then checked out whether there was a local store I could play at which was active, then I checked out the cost of starting. since the online prices were very much lower than the store prices I decided to start playing at my local store X while buying online.

 

subsequently I bought most of my things online for a while, but then I did buy things at another local store Y (I'm lucky to have several nearby) when they organized a midnight event tournament and sold wave 8 ships at a discount for that night only. the local store I usually go to, X, made no effort for the wave 8 release so I did not buy from them.

 

I do, once a while, make a small purchase at the local store X, and I do pay for their tournaments. I know tournament fees go towards prizes and kits, but I believe part of it goes to the store too.

 

I keep hearing the refrain that local store contribute to the growth of a game but my experience is that is only part of it. online stores contributed by having accessible prices, local stores contributed by having a place to play, and local stores in turn also benefit from purchases, especially when they increase volume of sales by active participation and offering targeted discounts.

 

I am sure that the store Y which organized the event and sold at a discount had a much higher volume of sales, and overall profit, than the other store X which did nothing.

 

the thought that online stores are kind of akin to parasites is wrong and only feeds into arguments presented by a company, one of the primary motivations of which is to make a profit. I don't understand how people just support their views. I'm not saying that local stores are evil and FFG is evil. I'm just saying the reality is more complex than what FFG and arguments like the above one make it out to be, where the local stores are what really and only drives a game's expansion.

 

finally, FFG is a company working by capitalist economy and benefits from the rules of capitalist economy. for example, they fabricate their things in china instead of in USA, thanks to favorable trade agreement with china. they think it's good that china can compete with american manufacturing and they buy based on the lower price. in turn, however, they argue that competition between online and local stores in a capitalist economy is bad and they apply rules that even force local stores to not be able to sell online as well? this is plain hypocrisy.

 

sure, we all like, for the most part, getting cheap things from china, or perhaps x-wing would cost more. on the other hand, perhaps without all this outsourcing to china americans would be paid more and be able to afford higher x-wing prices. I'm not here to discuss outsourcing to china, but only to point out that it serves you not one bit to simply agree with asmodee's PR without some critical thinking.

 

and also, imagine if there were zero online stores and the only place you could buy from was your local store with no competition. no competition means higher prices. online stores are also part of the reason we can all afford to play x-wing without breaking the bank, and one of the reasons x-wing exists in the first place

 

final edit: it's a little silly to say FFG would go out of business if they didn't intervene in the online/local stores competition. online stores have offered discount prices all this time and x-wing has only increased in popularity (which means FFG profits must have increased). 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but from your story you seem like the very reason a change was needed. You freely admit you did most of your purchasing online buying from the store every once in a while. However you used the stores, you go there meetup and use there facilities but felt you should get that privilege for very little or nothing because they can't match the online price. This is what the change was aimed to fix 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

that's not entirely true, in fact my own experience is different. I became interested in x-wing online, then checked out whether there was a local store I could play at which was active, then I checked out the cost of starting. since the online prices were very much lower than the store prices I decided to start playing at my local store X while buying online.

 

subsequently I bought most of my things online for a while, but then I did buy things at another local store Y (I'm lucky to have several nearby) when they organized a midnight event tournament and sold wave 8 ships at a discount for that night only. the local store I usually go to, X, made no effort for the wave 8 release so I did not buy from them.

 

I do, once a while, make a small purchase at the local store X, and I do pay for their tournaments. I know tournament fees go towards prizes and kits, but I believe part of it goes to the store too.

 

I keep hearing the refrain that local store contribute to the growth of a game but my experience is that is only part of it. online stores contributed by having accessible prices, local stores contributed by having a place to play, and local stores in turn also benefit from purchases, especially when they increase volume of sales by active participation and offering targeted discounts.

 

I am sure that the store Y which organized the event and sold at a discount had a much higher volume of sales, and overall profit, than the other store X which did nothing.

 

the thought that online stores are kind of akin to parasites is wrong and only feeds into arguments presented by a company, one of the primary motivations of which is to make a profit. I don't understand how people just support their views. I'm not saying that local stores are evil and FFG is evil. I'm just saying the reality is more complex than what FFG and arguments like the above one make it out to be, where the local stores are what really and only drives a game's expansion.

 

finally, FFG is a company working by capitalist economy and benefits from the rules of capitalist economy. for example, they fabricate their things in china instead of in USA, thanks to favorable trade agreement with china. they think it's good that china can compete with american manufacturing and they buy based on the lower price. in turn, however, they argue that competition between online and local stores in a capitalist economy is bad and they apply rules that even force local stores to not be able to sell online as well? this is plain hypocrisy.

 

sure, we all like, for the most part, getting cheap things from china, or perhaps x-wing would cost more. on the other hand, perhaps without all this outsourcing to china americans would be paid more and be able to afford higher x-wing prices. I'm not here to discuss outsourcing to china, but only to point out that it serves you not one bit to simply agree with asmodee's PR without some critical thinking.

 

and also, imagine if there were zero online stores and the only place you could buy from was your local store with no competition. no competition means higher prices. online stores are also part of the reason we can all afford to play x-wing without breaking the bank, and one of the reasons x-wing exists in the first place

 

final edit: it's a little silly to say FFG would go out of business if they didn't intervene in the online/local stores competition. online stores have offered discount prices all this time and x-wing has only increased in popularity (which means FFG profits must have increased). 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but from your story you seem like the very reason a change was needed. You freely admit you did most of your purchasing online buying from the store every once in a while. However you used the stores, you go there meetup and use there facilities but felt you should get that privilege for very little or nothing because they can't match the online price. This is what the change was aimed to fix 

 

This just isn't true. It's a cash grab veiled in the idea that "it helps the poor little FLGS". The reality is that FFG/Asmodee is trying to get more juice per squeeze. If it has an ancillary effect of helping the FLGS, they go "See it helped! We're for the little guy!" and if it doesn't, I'm fairly certain that Asmodee stock holders won't give 2 sh**s as long as the bottom line increases. If it doesn't increase profits, you can expect policy to change again, FLGS be damned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that consumer perception of inflated prices at brick-and-mortar stores was driving customers away from those stores and to the heavily discounted online retailers for their purchases. That's a problem because no one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc. No one wanders by a game of X-wing being played at Miniature Market and asks questions about it. Amazon.com does not host any X-wing Organized Play events.

If you ordered online but didn't play at an FLGS, that really sucks and I'm sorry.

 

You also need to add Target and Barnes and Noble to that list. Target never runs demos. Barnes and Nobles has traditionally never run demos. But these stores also serve to pull people in, including myself. I saw the game at Target, then did my research on boardgamegeek.com, and checked out the prices online. I may be in the minority, but I spent >$1000 on the game through MM and CSI over the course of a few years, never having ever set foot in a LGS in my entire life.

 

Eventually I started playing competitively, so now I show up to my FLGS on their twice-a-month tournament nights ($5 entry fee), and on weekend tournaments at various stores' Store Championships and seasonal kits (typically a $10 - $15 entry fee). I get enough store credit from usually placing at these tournaments, that I pay for ships entirely out of store credit. So the price hike through MM/CSI hasn't directly affected me since I don't need to buy there anymore anyway, but most people are not so fortunate.

 

 

But the increase in price for you is, over the long term, about keeping FFG in business by keeping the doors open at those stores. FFG didn't make this move out of charity, but out of concern for their own long-term health.

 

That may all be true, but it is ALSO true that AsmodeeNA / FFG is engaging in vertical price fixing. Prior to 1977, this behavior was "per se" illegal, meaning it would be automatically illegal, regardless of how the company attempted to justify it.

 

Was the company doing it to improve their profit margins?

That was illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to preserve the long term health of their business?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to prevent needing to lay off workers?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to prevent going bankrupt?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to help a little old lady across the street?

That was still illegal.

 

 

 

There's a pattern here: it would always be illegal. Prior to 1977, FFG would be automatically violating the law. No ifs, and, ors, or buts about it. Even if the entire LGS industry would have been put out of business without price fixing (which is unlikely even in today's internet age), FFG would still be acting unlawfully with their behavior if it was prior to 1977.

 

 

So what has changed? IANAL, but basically, vertical price fixing can still be considered illegal, but the court must weigh the economic cost of the price fixing versus the economic benefit of the price fixing. AsmodeeNA is behaving monopolistically and is likely violating anti-trust laws. [edit: or at least they would be for certain if it were pre-1977.] It is still possible that they could get taken to court over this, and lose, although given the relatively small size of the industry, it is unlikely that a lawyer would go after them for this. FFG isn't stupid, in order to make the merger between FFG and Asmodee financially viable, the plan all along was to exert monopolistic practices to increase their profit margins at the expense of the consumer, distributors, and local game stores. Therefore, Asmodee/FFG's hedge against getting taken to court and losing is to establish as strong a perception as possible that vertical price fixing is in the best economic interest of the industry. That's it.

 

This is 100% about improving profit margins through financial engineering, and then spinning it with the PR droids to mitigate their legal risk. There is certainly some merit to their argument, but some people such as myself view their justification as having zero credibility, and therefore is largely meaningless. We are living in an era where CEOs make massively more than the employees that work for them, because the law is rigged in their favor. FFG is no exception.

 

This is not about FFG single-handedly acting as a white knight to sustain a dying business model.

This is not about FFG treating their employees better.

This is not even about getting better long term sales growth.

 

This is about maximizing shareholder value at the expense of everyone else. Crony capitalism devolving into monopolies is the inevitable conclusion of a growing industry that is consolidating into fewer companies, in an environment where nearly all of the economic growth goes to the 0.1%.

 

To all the defenders of FFG's new price fixing policies, feel free to keep defending them. I don't really care. There are a lot of serfs arguing for the benefits of the feudal system. What am I going to do about it personally? Probably not much. As long as I continue to play the game competitively (another discussion entirely), then I'll just keep getting ships for free from my store credit. If not, then I'll probably just slow down my purchases instead.

Edited by MajorJuggler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I got out of this Biz-LOL in early 2000 it was falling off. I lived in a large city with plenty of active military people who came in and purchased all kinds of games and comics. We had a huge GW club and dozens of very active RPG groups and CCG players in the shop. The thing is the product sets on the shelves. Sure the new and the trending goodies move but you always had a slowly growing pile of everything in the stock room that gathered dust.

The gamer people are extremely fickle and you can not expect any amount of event running or sales to move products that people just do not care about. The mistake is charging more for the products that the fickle masses do care about... these super gamers (like us) do not like that crap.

The now model of selling globally is fine and mostly free of the FLGS issues. Trying to keep these last few dinosaurs from going completely under the tar in their sad little ageing lonely pits... it ain't my job anymore.

:)

As the developer/manufacturer it is the Job of FFG/Asmodee to develop a marketing strategy that furthers their goals as a company. As a consumer it is your (our) job/responsibility to manage your spending and decide how much of your money you are willing to spend on X-wing.

There have been some armchair CEO's in this thread who seem to believe they have enough knowledge of Asmodee's business plan to take on the role of managing their business model and do it better. The reality is that no matter how much information they pass along in press releases, Asmodee is keeping the crucial data that informs their decision to themselves, as they should.

The best thing we can do is embrace our role as consumers and let our wallets speak for us on Asmodee's marketing strategy. I'm not saying that you can't start or comment in a thread like this. I'm saying that by exercising our role as consumers, whether in support of this change by continuing to buy Asmodee products, or in rejecting it through reduced or eliminated spending on Asmodee products, is the most effective way we can let our feelings be known. In time, Asmodee's marketing strategies will be proven successful or unsuccessful through the actions of us as consumers, not through arguments on Internet forums.

Edited by Starbane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

that's not entirely true, in fact my own experience is different. I became interested in x-wing online, then checked out whether there was a local store I could play at which was active, then I checked out the cost of starting. since the online prices were very much lower than the store prices I decided to start playing at my local store X while buying online.

 

subsequently I bought most of my things online for a while, but then I did buy things at another local store Y (I'm lucky to have several nearby) when they organized a midnight event tournament and sold wave 8 ships at a discount for that night only. the local store I usually go to, X, made no effort for the wave 8 release so I did not buy from them.

 

I do, once a while, make a small purchase at the local store X, and I do pay for their tournaments. I know tournament fees go towards prizes and kits, but I believe part of it goes to the store too.

 

I keep hearing the refrain that local store contribute to the growth of a game but my experience is that is only part of it. online stores contributed by having accessible prices, local stores contributed by having a place to play, and local stores in turn also benefit from purchases, especially when they increase volume of sales by active participation and offering targeted discounts.

 

I am sure that the store Y which organized the event and sold at a discount had a much higher volume of sales, and overall profit, than the other store X which did nothing.

 

the thought that online stores are kind of akin to parasites is wrong and only feeds into arguments presented by a company, one of the primary motivations of which is to make a profit. I don't understand how people just support their views. I'm not saying that local stores are evil and FFG is evil. I'm just saying the reality is more complex than what FFG and arguments like the above one make it out to be, where the local stores are what really and only drives a game's expansion.

 

finally, FFG is a company working by capitalist economy and benefits from the rules of capitalist economy. for example, they fabricate their things in china instead of in USA, thanks to favorable trade agreement with china. they think it's good that china can compete with american manufacturing and they buy based on the lower price. in turn, however, they argue that competition between online and local stores in a capitalist economy is bad and they apply rules that even force local stores to not be able to sell online as well? this is plain hypocrisy.

 

sure, we all like, for the most part, getting cheap things from china, or perhaps x-wing would cost more. on the other hand, perhaps without all this outsourcing to china americans would be paid more and be able to afford higher x-wing prices. I'm not here to discuss outsourcing to china, but only to point out that it serves you not one bit to simply agree with asmodee's PR without some critical thinking.

 

and also, imagine if there were zero online stores and the only place you could buy from was your local store with no competition. no competition means higher prices. online stores are also part of the reason we can all afford to play x-wing without breaking the bank, and one of the reasons x-wing exists in the first place

 

final edit: it's a little silly to say FFG would go out of business if they didn't intervene in the online/local stores competition. online stores have offered discount prices all this time and x-wing has only increased in popularity (which means FFG profits must have increased). 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but from your story you seem like the very reason a change was needed. You freely admit you did most of your purchasing online buying from the store every once in a while. However you used the stores, you go there meetup and use there facilities but felt you should get that privilege for very little or nothing because they can't match the online price. This is what the change was aimed to fix 

 

no what I said was that initially I bought most of my things online, and I probably would not have started playing if I had had to pay retail prices. buying a core set to try was an easy choice at $20.

 

then I bought most of my things at one of the local store, because they offered a special event with discounts. all the local stores I play at get money from me in tournament fees and small purchases. 

 

now I had half a mind to buy 5 crackshot A wings, but with the reduced discounts I decided I won't, so no profit for local stores and no profit for FFG.

 

also I don't understand why people say that local stores demo the game, I've never seen this happen. I see us players encouraging new players, effectively creating revenue for the local stores and FFG, in exchange of having more players to play with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The problem is that consumer perception of inflated prices at brick-and-mortar stores was driving customers away from those stores and to the heavily discounted online retailers for their purchases. That's a problem because no one demos the game online at Coolstuffinc. No one wanders by a game of X-wing being played at Miniature Market and asks questions about it. Amazon.com does not host any X-wing Organized Play events.

If you ordered online but didn't play at an FLGS, that really sucks and I'm sorry.

 

You also need to add Target and Barnes and Noble to that list. Target never runs demos. Barnes and Nobles has traditionally never run demos. But these stores also serve to pull people in, including myself. I saw the game at Target, then did my research on boardgamegeek.com, and checked out the prices online. I may be in the minority, but I spent >$1000 on the game through MM and CSI over the course of a few years, never having ever set foot in a LGS in my entire life.

 

Eventually I started playing competitively, so now I show up to my FLGS on their twice-a-month tournament nights ($5 entry fee), and on weekend tournaments at various stores' Store Championships and seasonal kits (typically a $10 - $15 entry fee). I get enough store credit from usually placing at these tournaments, that I pay for ships entirely out of store credit. So the price hike through MM/CSI hasn't directly affected me since I don't need to buy there anymore anyway, but most people are not so fortunate.

 

 

But the increase in price for you is, over the long term, about keeping FFG in business by keeping the doors open at those stores. FFG didn't make this move out of charity, but out of concern for their own long-term health.

 

That may all be true, but it is ALSO true that AsmodeeNA / FFG is engaging in vertical price fixing. Prior to 1977, this behavior was "per se" illegal, meaning it would be automatically illegal, regardless of how the company attempted to justify it.

 

Was the company doing it to improve their profit margins?

That was illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to preserve the long term health of their business?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to prevent needing to lay off workers?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to prevent going bankrupt?

That was still illegal.

 

Was the company doing it to help a little old lady across the street?

That was still illegal.

 

 

 

There's a pattern here: it would always be illegal. Prior to 1977, FFG would be automatically violating the law. No ifs, and, ors, or buts about it. Even if the entire LGS industry would have been put out of business without price fixing (which is unlikely even in today's internet age), FFG would still be acting unlawfully with their behavior if it was prior to 1977.

 

 

So what has changed? IANAL, but basically, vertical price fixing can still be considered illegal, but the court must weigh the economic cost of the price fixing versus the economic benefit of the price fixing. AsmodeeNA is behaving monopolistically and is likely violating anti-trust laws. It is still possible that they could get taken to court over this, and lose, although given the relatively small size of the industry, it is unlikely that a lawyer would go after them for this. FFG isn't stupid, in order to make the merger between FFG and Asmodee financially viable, the plan all along was to exert monopolistic practices to increase their profit margins at the expense of the consumer, distributors, and local game stores. Therefore, Asmodee/FFG's hedge against getting taken to court and losing is to establish as strong a perception as possible that vertical price fixing is in the best economic interest of the industry. That's it.

 

This is 100% about improving profit margins through financial engineering, and then spinning it with the PR droids to mitigate their legal risk. There is certainly some merit to their argument, but some people such as myself view their justification as having zero credibility, and therefore is largely meaningless. We are living in an era where CEOs make massively more than the employees that work for them, because the law is rigged in their favor. FFG is no exception.

 

This is not about FFG single-handedly acting as a white knight to sustain a dying business model.

This is not about FFG treating their employees better.

This is not even about getting better long term sales growth.

 

This is about maximizing shareholder value at the expense of everyone else. Crony capitalism devolving into monopolies is the inevitable conclusion of a growing industry that is consolidating into fewer companies, in an environment where nearly all of the economic growth goes to the 0.1%.

 

To all the defenders of FFG's new price fixing policies, feel free to keep defending them. I don't really care. There are a lot of serfs arguing for the benefits of the feudal system. What am I going to do about it personally? Probably not much. As long as I continue to play the game competitively (another discussion entirely), then I'll just keep getting ships for free from my store credit. If not, then I'll probably just slow down my purchases instead.

 

 

YES to all this.

 

Especially this "This is about maximizing shareholder value at the expense of everyone else"

 

Nothing heroic about Asmodee at all.  Folks on here arguing how great Asmodee is for doing this are either working for Asmodee or just not smart enough to actually understand the situation.

Edited by Tokyogriz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Majorjuggler.

Would you please explain how Asmodee is engaging in vertical price fixing? It seems to me that vertical price fixing is fairly narrow in scope and that you are broadening that scope to fit your narrative. It may be that you aren't stretching it as much as I think. So, if you could elaborate some it would be helpful. It may also be that you have read details that support your stance that I'm not aware of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a professional pricer, I would do the same.  However, I would always ensure that there is a low barrier to entry and that the spend to be competitive is not unreasonable.  I'm guessing that X-Wing has quite low price sensitivity, i.e. increasing the price a bit will probably not decrease volume much.  A good pricer prices to the perceived value of what they are selling.  If they do that, then the deal is considered "fair".

 

So personally, this doesn't bother me.  Now if they start doing stupid stuff like obvious power creep in expensive expansions then that's when I'll start having issues.

Edited by slowreflex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Majorjuggler.

Would you please explain how Asmodee is engaging in vertical price fixing? It seems to me that vertical price fixing is fairly narrow in scope and that you are broadening that scope to fit your narrative. It may be that you aren't stretching it as much as I think. So, if you could elaborate some it would be helpful. It may also be that you have read details that support your stance that I'm not aware of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

 

also:  http://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/vertical-price-fixing.html

 

"an [...] arrangement in which parties at different levels of a system of production and distribution act to fix the market price of goods "

 

from what I understand, and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong, I think there is no question that any attempt to control price to favor certain stores over others or set up rules deciding whether local stores can also sell online or not is vertical price fixing. the point of whether it is legal, moral, justified or not is likely up to anyone's opinion and a court opinion.

Edited by XBear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's all Mouse Affair

the big brother is watching us!

 

sometimes it seems it looks exactly like this xD

weird-mickey-3.jpg

 

 

Perhaps not irrational, but certainly misguided, IMO. In my experience, people who buy online put in one big order a wave and then also buy at the LGS whenever there is some impulse idea they wanna try.

 

In any case, most LGS's order the kits because the players want them and will pay for them with event entrance fees. Some places are exceptions and do more for their players (aka Pasttimes in Niles, a Chicago suburb).

 

All I am saying is this policy change is going to screw the player base, who should be the last person FFG wants to harm.

 

 

 

We are talking about 2-6 dollars per expansion. Yes, it adds up. But, this is also a luxury item. 

 

How is that even an argument?

 

I can't even comprehend that. Money is money. Money represents hours of my life. Who gives a **** what the category of the expenditure is?  Would it be more upsetting if it were raising prices on meds?

 

I don't get it.....The point is you want to support the LGS as the Manufacturer? Fine. There are better ways to do it then screwing the End Customer.

 

...Holy **** the amount of misinformation and childish entitlement in these posts is staggering..

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and their stores are what carry this game. Disney had nothing to do with it and in the end neither they or FFG make any more money this way except in that if the LGSs go under or decide to boycott like they threatened the game will instantly tank. And I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My buying of Asmodee products has pretty much stopped all together. So no wave 8 for me. Maybe ill cherry pick a ship I like now and then but the past few months I've moved on to other miniature games I enjoy or just some well priced board games. Ship prices for me have pretty much doubled since I started playing so taking a year off or so see how I feel about the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

 

They MAY be Incompetent, but I doubt they are evil.  There's an important distinction.  ;)

Besides, who is using X-Wing as their main product offering anyway? Magic is the cornerstone of every successful shop that I have ever been to.

 

Again, purely anecdotal and I am sure others who have owned or worked in shops longer than I did can confirm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

 

They MAY be Incompetent, but I doubt they are evil.  There's an important distinction.  ;)

Besides, who is using X-Wing as their main product offering anyway? Magic is the cornerstone of every successful shop that I have ever been to.

 

Again, purely anecdotal and I am sure others who have owned or worked in shops longer than I did can confirm.

 

Its hardly incompetent to want to stop your supplier from letting online stores who can't actually host the game from undercutting you. Also I know several, when there are more then one store in an area they tend to specialize to avoid stepping all over each others toes. And X-Wing is rapidly taking up the slack from 40k caused by GW's complete and total inability to run a game company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong, I think there is no question that any attempt to control price to favor certain stores over others or set up rules deciding whether local stores can also sell online or not is vertical price fixing.

You are wrong:

FTC Manufacturer-imposed Requirements

 

Reasonable price, territory, and customer restrictions on dealers are legal. Manufacturer-imposed requirements can benefit consumers by increasing competition among different brands (interbrand competition) even while reducing competition among dealers in the same brand (intrabrand competition). For instance, an agreement between a manufacturer and dealer to set maximum (or "ceiling") prices prevents dealers from charging a non-competitive price. Or an agreement to set minimum (or "floor") prices or to limit territories may encourage dealers to provide a level of service that the manufacturer wants to offer to consumers when they buy the product. These benefits must be weighed against any reduction in competition from the restrictions.

Really Asmodee is trying to protect FLGS by eliminating the ability for a couple vendors to undercut the entire market. Don't have a FLGS? Guess what? You just may have a viable business model in your town now. Edited by Hexis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

 

They MAY be Incompetent, but I doubt they are evil.  There's an important distinction.  ;)

Besides, who is using X-Wing as their main product offering anyway? Magic is the cornerstone of every successful shop that I have ever been to.

 

Again, purely anecdotal and I am sure others who have owned or worked in shops longer than I did can confirm.

 

Its hardly incompetent to want to stop your supplier from letting online stores who can't actually host the game from undercutting you. Also I know several, when there are more then one store in an area they tend to specialize to avoid stepping all over each others toes. And X-Wing is rapidly taking up the slack from 40k caused by GW's complete and total inability to run a game company.

 

 

This sounds to me like you have stores in your area that intentionally handicap themselves by not carrying the product that could make them the most money because there isn't really enough room for both of them in the market space without this specialization. I've seen that too. Usually it's the guy who doesn't carry Magic who struggles and looks outward for blame instead of inwards. Of course, that's usually also the guy who carries a ton of dusty merchandise from yesteryear on their shelves and is happy to let his friends have RPG nights 5/7 nights in the store.

 

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a bash the lgs session. I think that's actually how  Asmodee wants this conversation to go down anyway.

 

If you're ok with the increase, it's because you are Pro-LGS. If you're not ok with it, you must be some anti-LGS jackass.

 

I'm a jackass, and I dislike the new direction FFG is taking since this merger / acquisition, but I am not anti-LGS....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

 

They MAY be Incompetent, but I doubt they are evil.  There's an important distinction.  ;)

Besides, who is using X-Wing as their main product offering anyway? Magic is the cornerstone of every successful shop that I have ever been to.

 

Again, purely anecdotal and I am sure others who have owned or worked in shops longer than I did can confirm.

 

Its hardly incompetent to want to stop your supplier from letting online stores who can't actually host the game from undercutting you. Also I know several, when there are more then one store in an area they tend to specialize to avoid stepping all over each others toes. And X-Wing is rapidly taking up the slack from 40k caused by GW's complete and total inability to run a game company.

 

 

This sounds to me like you have stores in your area that intentionally handicap themselves by not carrying the product that could make them the most money because there isn't really enough room for both of them in the market space without this specialization. I've seen that too. Usually it's the guy who doesn't carry Magic who struggles and looks outward for blame instead of inwards. Of course, that's usually also the guy who carries a ton of dusty merchandise from yesteryear on their shelves and is happy to let his friends have RPG nights 5/7 nights in the store.

 

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a bash the lgs session. I think that's actually how  Asmodee wants this conversation to go down anyway.

 

If you're ok with the increase, it's because you are Pro-LGS. If you're not ok with it, you must be some anti-LGS jackass.

 

I'm a jackass, and I dislike the new direction FFG is taking since this merger / acquisition, but I am not anti-LGS....

 

Well, and I know this from talking to people who are actually part of the coalition, the reason it comes down to that is because this change started and ended with LGS owners. It was their idea, they gathered the support for it and they delivered it to FFG with an ultimatum because they were tired of three venders who didn't even host events to support the game undercutting the entire market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, that's all Mouse Affair

the big brother is watching us!

 

sometimes it seems it looks exactly like this xD

weird-mickey-3.jpg

 

 

Perhaps not irrational, but certainly misguided, IMO. In my experience, people who buy online put in one big order a wave and then also buy at the LGS whenever there is some impulse idea they wanna try.

 

In any case, most LGS's order the kits because the players want them and will pay for them with event entrance fees. Some places are exceptions and do more for their players (aka Pasttimes in Niles, a Chicago suburb).

 

All I am saying is this policy change is going to screw the player base, who should be the last person FFG wants to harm.

 

 

 

We are talking about 2-6 dollars per expansion. Yes, it adds up. But, this is also a luxury item. 

 

How is that even an argument?

 

I can't even comprehend that. Money is money. Money represents hours of my life. Who gives a **** what the category of the expenditure is?  Would it be more upsetting if it were raising prices on meds?

 

I don't get it.....The point is you want to support the LGS as the Manufacturer? Fine. There are better ways to do it then screwing the End Customer.

 

...Holy **** the amount of misinformation and childish entitlement in these posts is staggering..

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and their stores are what carry this game. Disney had nothing to do with it and in the end neither they or FFG make any more money this way except in that if the LGSs go under or decide to boycott like they threatened the game will instantly tank. And I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

The game will not tank. PLENTY of places have NO FLGS. They never have and they never will. And guess what? People play games there. The internet does EXACTLY what it should. It connects them and lets them get the materials and supplies they want. Then Asmodee hurts these people who have NO access and spoiled people like you who do have somewhere to go applaud them getting screwed. This is bad for some people. And narrow minded selfish people would rather cheer it then recognize in today's age we live in a global market that has the internet to get people what they need rather than indiscriminately harm them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

First of all, a coalition of LGS owners formed and petitioned FFG to do this because your penny pinching was seriously effecting their livelyhood and […] I'm sorry but you being able to pay a couple dollars less on a toy is not more important then store owners being able to pay their bills.

 

From my perspective the store owners are evil.

Scnr.

 

They MAY be Incompetent, but I doubt they are evil.  There's an important distinction.  ;)

Besides, who is using X-Wing as their main product offering anyway? Magic is the cornerstone of every successful shop that I have ever been to.

 

Again, purely anecdotal and I am sure others who have owned or worked in shops longer than I did can confirm.

 

 

If you did play my "Revenge of the Sith" reference intentionally to make the Jedi look as incompetent as they are then I applaud your wit. If not then there is nothing to applaud for, besides magic as corner stone sounds interesting, I am not even sure if my favorite two lfgs even run magic, or well, I would not be sure if I did not check their online stores just now. They do run magic, but most buiness around that seems to be done by the tcg only store/pub for children which is literally just 20m away from my favorite store. (Or well used to be, I have not walked those additional 20m for years, so I have no real idea if that store still exist or not, it seems like there is still SOMETHING in there, but if that's a magic game room or a drug lab, I have no idea.)

 

Board games seem to run like mad currently, so good that tabletop specialized stores run them now and RPG specialized stores are full of board games too. Hey, FFG product portfolio is full of them as well and as the other new "big thing" that is Living Card Games (LCC). Guess Asmodée is right on the pulse of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...