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Fuzzywookie

With all these awesome ships now. Increase points to 150??

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 why shouldn't the store have some freedom?

Because the winners of Store Championships get a bye at Regionals, and so everyone playing at one should be playing by the same rule set.

 

Also because SC's are the first tier in the OP circuit.  

 

If you want to play an event with a different point value, nothing is stopping anyone from doing so.  The OP circuit is nothing more than tournaments all played with the same ruleset.

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When the point limit forces you to make difficult choices and compromises over the contents of your list, it's doing its job.

 

Yeah, but it's fun to break out of it every once in a while.  

 

@Fuzzywookie: A list with 3-4 Assault Missiles would love to see that many Tie Fighters.  

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My vote it No.. All the reasons have been brought up already.. Time limits .. space.. just the other day we played a 2 sided 4 way with empire vs Rebel Alliance. It was fun and we will do it again but it took just over 3 hours to play

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My vote it No.. All the reasons have been brought up already.. Time limits .. space.. just the other day we played a 2 sided 4 way with empire vs Rebel Alliance. It was fun and we will do it again but it took just over 3 hours to play

 

Not even for casual games?

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3x IG88, fully kitted.

 

Think about it for a second.

(150)

"Howlrunner" (18) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

Academy Pilot (12) - TIE Fighter

ok. I thought about it.

 

 

This is why i will always be against a straight up points increase.  I would accept something like this though:

 

-build a 100 point squad of the cheapest generic for each ship

-increase point limit to 150

-you may now swap out pilots and add upgrades to fill out your 150 points, but the number and type of ships must be the same as your 100 point squad

 

We can now use more unique pilots and upgrades and cram in a couple more ships but we keep the established hard limits for game size that we currently have in 100 point games

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This is why i will always be against a straight up points increase.  I would accept something like this though:

 

 

That's not that broken of a list, though.   Not all those Tie Fighters can be around Howlrunner.  Assault Missiles and Ion Torpedoes become more worthwhile, too.  Just a few of those in a list and this sucker dies hard.  

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It's got nothing to do with balance, it's an issue of playability.  8-TIE swarms can already kill the pace of a game, especially if the player is not an expert at using them and pre-planning dials to make the game run smoothly.  IMO X-wing is not a game that really scales up smoothly (especially compared to Armada), and I find that it plays best in the established 100 point range.

 

You can do whatever in casual games if both players agree to it but larger formats are not something I have found to really improve the game.

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Everything in the game has been tested and balanced based on the idea that there will only be (100-(its cost)) other points in the build.  Adding 50 points onto the limit would lead to some combos that FFG deliberately priced out of existence.

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I've played 150 games and they're fun.  But 100 points is the limit for a reason, namely so you can't run everything you want.

 

 

When the point limit forces you to make difficult choices and compromises over the contents of your list, it's doing its job.

 

All of this.

 

You could say that "if tournaments were 150 points I could run everything I want," but the truth is you're lying.  If the point limit is 100 points maybe you find something you think would be great but it cost 105 points so now you can't run it.  While moving the points to 150 now lets you run that 105 point squadron, plus another 45 points, you're just going to run into the exact same situation at 150 points when someones "ideal" squadron is going to weigh in at 155 points.

 

Boosting the point level does NOT solve any problems although it may change how some problems are viewed.

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Well, there would have to be rules in place, like the Epic rules, limiting number of each model, like TIE Fighters.  Also, anyone can run a "Casual" tournament with whatever point limit & time limit they want, even for the seasonal kits.  You just need to advertise the format in advance.  I agree that "Competitive" X-Wing will probably always be 100-pt dog fights, but people need to try playing Epic or Escalation or Team Epic or non-standard tournaments occasionally... :)

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My local group is about to start an Escalation League, with a Pod system, just to break-up the norm of always playing 100-pt dog fights.  We will also probably run a Team Epic tournament again in the fall, like last year...variety is the spice of life.

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When the point limit forces you to make difficult choices and compromises over the contents of your list, it's doing its job.

I agree but don't you think the same restrictions would apply to a 125/150 point game? Sure, you'll end up with more "stuff" either on the board or in the ships but stuff will necessarily be left off.

Yes, absolutely. My point was that "I can't fit in all the stuff I want" isn't a convincing reason to change the point limit; at any given value, either you have to make those compromises or the point limit isn't doing its job.

There are good reasons to play at varying point levels. It could be because you really like epic, or because you like the feel of bigger (or smaller!) fights, or just for a change of pace. But if the motivation for the change is that you just can't fit everything you want, don't expect changing the point value to "fix" the issue: either you'll still be unsatisfied, or you'll have arrived at a point limit where (because the game isn't tested for balance at 113 points) you've accidentally broken the system.

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Yes, absolutely.

Well said. That was more or less my point as well.

The game actually seems fairly well balanced at X points, although it does seem to do better in increments of 10.

But the fact that 150 points has a limit on what you can do, isn't a compelling reason to change it to that value.

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Point creep will come. I'm actually glad it hasn't happen yet but the point limit can be extended. Maybe after the TFA factions split from the OT factions making 5 separate factions.

 

Well anyways, I will say it would be nice if there was some more support for escalation tournaments. Half of those games are above the 100 point limit.

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For official events (Store Champs, Regionals, National, Worlds), 100 is fine and probably best overall as far as balance, time ratio, etc.

That said, for unofficial events, 150 points with a 90 minute time limit is freaking FUN. I've been running 150 point events since the game came out and people love them. Always well attended and frequently requested. Just keep the 8 small/4 large limit and the game still plays well.

Jim

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