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Uninvitedhaggis

Mandalorians and Line of Succession

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So I'm running a campaign, a mix of all three games, and my party is as of now about to escape from this planet run by the Sith that has a casual relationship with time-space. So they recently destroyed this ancient artifact, and happened to triumph enough to come away with three separate ones, one of which was the actual Mask of Mandalore. Now, one of our party members is a Mando, so he was pumped, as this could legitimize a claim to the title. 

 

This leads me as the GM to be uncertain. How exactly do you all think the claim would go? How would other Mandos react? How about the Empire? Is there any way they could ensure it's the real thing?  

 

Any ideas will be helpful!

Questions welcome,

Haggis

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Cannon(if I remember correctly) is that Boba Fett is the current Mandalore, and Jango before him. But it depends what era it is. If you do allow him to be Mandalore be prepared or a lot of Basilisk war droids, Mandalorian Super Commandos, Etc,Etc, to enter your game. In response to how would the rest of the Mandalorians react, Its up to you as the GM.

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I don't think current canon has actually addressed whether a Mandalore even exists.  I think Boba is established as Mandalore in or around the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion which is Legend now.  I could be wrong, though.  I'm not the Star Wars authority I used to be :(

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First: Cool nick name *thumbsup*

 

Second: Welcome.

 

Third: such a claim could of course be contested, probably violently... furthermore as The Clone Wars series shows, Mandalore is run by a bunch of pacifists these days, that's the canon. Of course, during the time of the rebellion it's currently not known as far as I know. There were some mandalorians in Rebels, but they were somewhere else.

 

Also, as far as we know, neither Boba nor Jango were actually mandalorians. That's all Legends now, George apparently stated at some point that they weren't mandalorians. This is of course all subject to change now.

 

Depending on how much you want to draw on Legends, I still think any reaction to such a claim would be contested, and probably through a duel of some sort (see Rebels season 2, can't recall episode.)

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In this era Fenn Shaysa is Mandalor - according to the "old" Canon. Boba Fett takes over in 21 ABY.

 

According to the nature and outlook on history that the mandalorians have the idea of marching in the Oyu'Baat with the mask of the mand'alor tucked under your arm and proclaiming that you are the legitimate holder of the title of Mand'alor is kinda ridiculous. The patrons and if they are there at the moment, the clan leaders would be very amused and take it for a joke and kick the pc out if he becomes an annoyance.

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Third: such a claim could of course be contested, probably violently... furthermore as The Clone Wars series shows, Mandalore is run by a bunch of pacifists these days, that's the canon. Of course, during the time of the rebellion it's currently not known as far as I know. There were some Mandalorians in Rebels, but they were somewhere else.

The Mandos in Rebels were the Mandalorian protectors. The Mandalorians on Mandalore are the New Mandalorians, and Death Watch, is Death Watch.

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Also, as far as we know, neither Boba nor Jango were actually mandalorians. That's all Legends now, George apparently stated at some point that they weren't mandalorians. This is of course all subject to change now.

 

 

Reference is a line in one of the early seasons of Clone Wars. Obi calls out his interaction with Jango and one of the mando political types immediately responds, with some anger/disgust in his voice, that Jango was not Mandalorian. Now... if he was saying that Jango was not of mandalorian descent, or was, but had done something so awful the entire Mando ethnic group had disowned him is another matter.

 

As for how the Mandos would handle someone showing up with the Helm and declaring himself King of all Mandos? As far as I know you can do whatever you like. Clone Wars left Mandalore in a bit of a mess. Deathwatch, Loyalists, and Maul's Watch were at each others throats. By Rebels we can infer a few things. The protectors of Concord Dawn get really excited when Sabine announces she's Clan Vizla, and the protectors automatically assume she's Deathwatch. So up front we can probably assume that Deathwatch is still around and not getting along with the Protectors. Likewise the Protector's alliance with the Empire suggests that Mandalore is an Imperial world, and probably an Imperial sector or other type of state composed of several worlds.

 

So... offhand... my take is:

 

The Mandos on Mando proper would probably be impressed at the recovery of a cultural heirloom, but be more likely to put it in a museum than fall to their knees and declare the player king of all his T-visor surveys.

The Protectors might show a little more respect, possibly offering the Player something like an honorary title in recognition of helmets return. If the player is respected by the protectors they MIGHT let him keep it.

The Deathwatch would be the most impressed. Showing up in a Deathwatch camp with that thing on would get some serious attention. I'd be on guard though as whoever the Deathwatch chief is might make a move to take it for themselves to cement their claim as the mandoest mando of all mandos.

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take it for themselves to cement their claim as the mandoest mando of all mandos.

This is a great concept for a game. The players can get caught in between several families, each of which is trying to get the mask for themselves. It can all end in a glorious family feud on par with the weddings in game of thrones.

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i know almost no lore to start with.. but id imagine you would wear said mask go to world/ worlds that said culture is predominant and if they are a warrior culture you could just have him visit the clans, defeat their challenge whatever it may be and once hes crowned throw in groups of bounty hunters wanting to have the title of assassinating the king ;3 or old ancient grudges vs the mandalorian leader

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I really like the idea of multiple sects getting into a battle over the artifact, because I imagine there'd be plenty of people after it, like Deathwatch, Protectors, New Mando archaeologists who think it belongs in a museum, and even if my team member decides to make a run for the title, he'd have to deal with countless warlords, bounty hunters, crime bosses, not to mention the Hutts or the Empire.

Gameplay wise, I've been kicking around the idea of a Stat boost to the wearer, like +1 rank to coerce, or maybe +1 to presence.

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Also, as far as we know, neither Boba nor Jango were actually mandalorians. That's all Legends now, George apparently stated at some point that they weren't mandalorians. This is of course all subject to change now.

 

 

Reference is a line in one of the early seasons of Clone Wars. Obi calls out his interaction with Jango and one of the mando political types immediately responds, with some anger/disgust in his voice, that Jango was not Mandalorian. Now... if he was saying that Jango was not of mandalorian descent, or was, but had done something so awful the entire Mando ethnic group had disowned him is another matter.

 

 

I often wondered what was meant by the statement that Jango wasn't a Mandalorian, whether it was actually an honest challenge to his genetics/parentage or a stubborn view or 'philosophy' as to what makes a 'true' mandalorian. Pre Vizsla did come across as an arrogant jerk, quite frankly (but I guess that was his role in the story...)

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Long post, but please stick with me.

 

All of this comes from the Star Wars Databank entries "Mandalore," "The Protectors," "Death Watch," "Shadow Collective," "Jango Fett," Boba Fett"

 

During the Clone Wars, Duchess Satine Kryze tried very hard to separate the Mandalorians from their warrior past and the mistakes made by the former regime and that way of thinking. This was a major point of conflict within the society that caused the rise of the Death Watch. The New Mandalorians were a pacifist movement that held the government of the planet Mandalore, and the Death Watch was a splinter group of "radicals" that still held to their old beliefs.  Founded by Pre Visla, who resurrected the famous armor of the old warrior race they sought to challenge Duchess Satine Kryze for political control of Mandalore. These radicals were initially backed by Count Dooku and the Separatists, but when a political coup became inconvenient, he abandoned them to the leadership of Pre Visla. 

 

Upon Satine's death at hands of the Death Watch, Darth Maul (leader of the Death Watch at the time) conquered the planet Mandalore as part of his Shadow Collective and installed a puppet Prime Minister in her place. The Shadow Collective then maintained control over the planet until Maul was defeated by Darth Sidious and went missing in the final months of the Clone Wars.

 

While under the rulership of Duchess Satine Kryze, Mandalore was considered neutral in the Clone Wars, however under control of the Death Watch, who sought to return to their warrior past, it came into conflict with the Republic. This resulted in the Empire occupying the planet at the close of the Clone Wars. Those who still wished to keep arms then fled to the moon of Concord Dawn (the birthplace of the Death Watch) and became known as the Protectors. Later, an arrangement was made between their leader, Fenn Rau and the Imperials, whereby they acted on the Empire's behalf to keep Rebel activity out of Concord Dawn. This changed, however, after a group of Rebel agents (one of whom was a Mandalorian herself) acquitted themselves with honor and won over Fenn Rau to the cause.

 

Jango Fett was a bounty hunter proficient in both ranged and unarmed combat. Used as a template for the Republic's Clone Troopers, it was discovered that he was truly in league with Count Dooku and the Separatists after Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi tracked him to Geonosis and uncovered his deception. His armor contained many built-in weapons and as of the style of the Mandalorian warriors. Though slain in the Battle of Geonosis, he was survived by his 'son,' Boba, who was (like the Clone Troopers) a genetic clone of Jango, though he was unaltered like the Clone Troopers were. Boba Fett went on to become a bounty hunter like his father, also wearing heavily modified Mandalorian combat armor. 

 

*End history lesson, begin conjecture*

 

It is reasonable, though nothing canonical points to it, that the mass resources of the Separatists was what allowed the Death Watch to create so many suits of Mandalorian battle armor so quickly. It makes sense that Dooku would allow this, as (after all) he was attempting to fund a coup of the government by allies of the Separatists and the better equipped they were the more valuable and higher the chance of success. It also explains where Pre Visla would be able to get the ordinance and firepower so quickly on what was a pacifist world.

 

If we accept this as reasonable, then it is likely that the similarity of the Death Watch's armor to that of Jango and Boba Fett can be explained by the fact that it was Dooku that initially bestowed the armor to Jango. It would make sense that with the amount of resources that Dooku and Palpatine were putting into the Clones, and with Jango knowing that he would eventually cross paths with the Jedi, that Jango (being a cunning bounty hunter) would request a suit of armor that was historically used by a group of warriors that regularly (and successfully) combated Jedi.

 

Once the research and engineering for the armor was done, Dooku likely thought it a good idea to take this new generation of the armor to the race that it was attributed to. This would then lead to the disgust and general poor opinion of the Mandalorians in regard to Jango, who in their eyes would have been an opportunist and mercenary, as well the hateful opinion of Boba towards the Death Watch, who he would see as owing their armor and rebirth to his father, only to have turned on him. 

 

Finally, how this all works with the recovery of the "Mask of Mandalore."

 

So, the reason that I worked all this out is because something very similar is going on in my campaign. As part of the "Lessons of the Past" adventure, the PCs found themselves on an ancient ship that was assaulted by Mandalorians, trying to figure out how to stop a basilisk war droid. They had noticed the myriad suits of Mandalorian battle armor around, and decided they were going to try and repair a suit in order to use it to convince the basilisk the wearer was an ally. Long story short, there were many triumphs involved to pick just the right suit, and the triumphs were used to "make the suit that of one of the most important Mandalorians of the age." No way was I going to make it the Mandalore, but since the suit they were looking for was female (because the skills of the female party members had the best chance to pull it off) I made it that of the wife of Mandalore, known as The Lady Mandalore. As such, I had to do a lot of figuring about how this would work into the campaign once the adventure was done and they were back in the galaxy wandering about. What I came up with would be analogous to what you're trying to work out. 

 

There are still factions amongst the Mandalorians during the Galactic Civil War, specifically the remaining Death Watch, the Night Owls, the New Mandalorians, and the Protectors. Each would see the return of the Mask of Mandalore differently.

 

The New Mandalorians are the remnants of Duchess Satine's pacifist movement, and would have prospered greatly under Imperial rule. As Mandalorians are all human, and generally xenophobic in their natures (a holdover from being conquerors) they would get along with Imperial doctrine just fine. Being pacifists, they would, by definition, be easy to keep pacified, making their life under Imperial sovereignty very plush and reward filled. They would see nothing more than an anthropological interest in the Mask of Mandalore at best, and hostility at the reminder of a "dark era" at worst. It is incredibly unlikely that they would be interested in hearing of anyone claiming the right of Mandalore, as the reaction to the Death Watch's own desire to return to the warrior ways was mixed at best even without Imperial "reassurance" that the way of peace was preferable for the planet's security.

 

The other three factions would have positive reactions to the return of a Mandalore, as all three still honor the warrior ways. The differences in these factions though, is a very large problem, as they all have varying degrees of hate towards each other.

 

The Night Owls hate the Death Watch due to their "corruption" by the Sith, Maul and Savage Oppress. These two would have to be pressed hard to work together, if it's even possible at all. The Protectors likewise hate the Death Watch, having their roots in the Police and Military of Mandalore during the Clone Wars. They were the ones that fought against the Death Watch during Satine's rule and have never lost their hatred for the "terrorists." The Protectors have a similar feeling towards the Night Owls, as well. Though the Night Owls didn't exist during the Clone Wars, their founder, Bo-Katan, started out as the second in command of the Death Watch during this period. As such, they are seen more as an off-shoot of the Death Watch than as a different faction.

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Also, as far as we know, neither Boba nor Jango were actually mandalorians. That's all Legends now, George apparently stated at some point that they weren't mandalorians. This is of course all subject to change now.

Reference is a line in one of the early seasons of Clone Wars. Obi calls out his interaction with Jango and one of the mando political types immediately responds, with some anger/disgust in his voice, that Jango was not Mandalorian. Now... if he was saying that Jango was not of mandalorian descent, or was, but had done something so awful the entire Mando ethnic group had disowned him is another matter.

 

I often wondered what was meant by the statement that Jango wasn't a Mandalorian, whether it was actually an honest challenge to his genetics/parentage or a stubborn view or 'philosophy' as to what makes a 'true' mandalorian. Pre Vizsla did come across as an arrogant jerk, quite frankly (but I guess that was his role in the story...)

Lucas was engaging in a bit of character assassination, since he felt the Mandos had become to popular and didn't want anyone rooting for the bad guys.

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I prefer the backstory behind Jango we got from the comics and Star Wars: Bounty Hunter. Though I stick to canon for the most part in my games, both he and Boba are full-on Mandalorians. Like Jon D said above, Lucas just hated that something got so popular that he didn't immediately have a hand in creating, so he said '**** that!' and kicked over the sandcastle.

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I prefer the backstory behind Jango we got from the comics and Star Wars: Bounty Hunter. Though I stick to canon for the most part in my games, both he and Boba are full-on Mandalorians. Like Jon D said above, Lucas just hated that something got so popular that he didn't immediately have a hand in creating, so he said '**** that!' and kicked over the sandcastle.

He's got a bit of a habit of that.

Fact of the matter is, Jango wore Mandalorian armor and spoke Mandalorian. Hence, he is a Mandalorian.

I personally think that the government of Mandalore went through a massive civil war with a mixing of the two opposing sides taming place after the Republic/Empire rolled in and decided they owned the place.

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I loved SW:Bounty Hunter, one of the first games I played all the way through, and while I initially hated what happened to Mandalorians in the Clone Wars (I was a Karen Travis fan), and generally dislike Lucas' tantrums, I'm growing to accept the current canon as time goes on.

 

The idea that the history of the Mandalorian warrior was lost appeals to me. After all, I'm Icelandic and Norwegian. I'm very comfortable with the "lost history of a strong warrior" situation. I see Jango as really the spiritual Mandalore of the Star Wars galaxy in the new canon.

 

It's like this; the old warrior ways of the Mandalorian people are gone - lost to history just like the Sith 1000 years ago. In that time, the new pacifists have moved in, and Jango bails. Maybe he bailed because he couldn't deal with the whole pacifist thing, maybe just because he sees profit in the bounty hunting game. Personally, I prefer the idea that he truly honored and admired his ancestry.

 

So he makes his way as a bounty hunter - which is definitely not a profession where you are getting rich. Money comes in, and goes right back to gear, fuel, bribes, and food. Along comes Tyranus, offering a fat paycheck for an easy job that will still let him take side work. The more he learns about it, the more he realizes that anyone with the cash to outfit an army has the cash to give him the one thing he really wants; to bring back the ways of the Mandalorians. So he says to Tyranus he wants a suit of armor and kid. The suit of armor is the Mandalorian armor he could never get the resources together for. After all, the art of making armor has been lost for 1000 years, and the R&D required to get a working suit again would be insane. Tyranus has the means and the will, however, between using the Jedi archives to research their old enemies before he leaves the order and production facilities already being used to create the armor for the clones (itself a modified version of the Mandalorian pattern of armor). The kid Jango plans to raise as a true Mandalorian; from day one a warrior of old.

 

From here, Dooku takes the info and approaches Pre Visla, who in turn creates the Death Watch. Pre Visla pitches to Jango to team up, and Jango turns him down - Mandalorians aren't political tools, the Mandalorians don't fight wars for others, (which is why he trains the clones but doesn't fight with them) Mandalorians take care of their family and clan. Now, Pre Visla gets pissed at this back handed comment, and spits on Jango's name from then on. The New Mandalorians spit on his name because he turned his back on his homeworld and became a bounty hunter and violent mercenary. So no one considers Jango a "real mandalorian" but in reality the Protectors, Death Watch, and Night Owls that continue the Mandalorian warrior tradition into the Civil War period are only there because of the armor and history that he forced into being through his dealings a decade before the Clone Wars.

 

This also gives Boba a reason to hate the "Mandalorians" of the GCE, seeing them as riding on the coat tails of his fathers work while at the same time spitting on his fathers name.  

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Dang... someone's really given this some thought....

 

Yea, like I said, when I saw that in Lessons of the Past the Mandalorians were featured front and center, I realized that I needed to get my story straight. It put me in a position where I had to align their appearance in the Clone Wars series and simultaneously satisfy a player who considers the Republic Commando series to be pretty near the gospel. This was the narrative that I settled on to satisfy the disparate parts of Legends and Canon and create a happy medium.

Edited by Kyla

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Dang... someone's really given this some thought....

 

Yea, like I said, when I saw that in Lessons of the Past the Mandalorians were featured front and center, I realized that I needed to get my story straight. It put me in a position where I had to align their appearance in the Clone Wars series and simultaneously satisfy a player who considers the Republic Commando series to be pretty near the gospel. This was the narrative that I settled on to satisfy the disparate parts of Legends and Canon and create a happy medium.

Gar cu jatne!

I'm with you; Republic Commandos all the way!

That is the best mingling of book and 'official' canon that I have ever heard! And now I know where I'm going to look for Mando'ade help in my campaign if I ever need it!

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Gar cu jatne!

I'm with you; Republic Commandos all the way!

That is the best mingling of book and 'official' canon that I have ever heard! And now I know where I'm going to look for Mando'ade help in my campaign if I ever need it!

 

Vor'e! Ni gedeteyar bah gaa'taylir!

Thanks! I'd be happy to help! 

 

Are you actually running an entire game of Mandalorians? That's pretty cool. What era?

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My PC group is not Mandalorian (yet), but they're about to run into members of Clan Skirata on an out of the way system.

The Era is just after the destruction of the first Death Star.

Eventually, I want to run a game with an entire Mando PC group; I'm thinking there's a good chance some of my current players may become Mandalorian.

A couple of them have shown interest, so we'll see.

Edited by Vestij Jai Galaar

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